The Penman post 'em up Pages....The Adventure Continues...

bantufo · Post by **bantufo** » Wed May 26, 2021 11:32 pm

I don't see any pics of the hat (Canyon's Penman reblock) that is being mentioned and commented on at the moment. Is this a forum setting I need to change? There are no pictures of the hat showing to be able to see.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Thu May 27, 2021 12:14 am

Hmm, I can still see the pictures fine. I’d assume it’s something on your end, but an admin would probably be the best help to you.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Thu May 27, 2021 7:30 am

bantufo wrote:I don't see any pics of the hat (Canyon's Penman reblock) that is being mentioned and commented on at the moment. Is this a forum setting I need to change? There are no pictures of the hat showing to be able to see.

Bantufo, you can view them here...
http://www.23hq.com/Canyon1899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bantufo · Post by **bantufo** » Thu May 27, 2021 8:39 am

There we go! Thank you, Canyon. Yes indeed, that's a great looking hat!

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Thu May 27, 2021 10:19 am

bantufo wrote:There we go! Thank you, Canyon. Yes indeed, that's a great looking hat!

Thank you!

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:29 pm

Just a thought, but I don’t really see John agreeing to a tapered hat with that color of ribbon. Along with his sickness and everything else going on, I think it’s safe to say that he really isn’t doing the Indy 5 hats.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:45 pm

IJJTM wrote:Just a thought, but I don’t really see John agreeing to a tapered hat with that color of ribbon. Along with his sickness and everything else going on, I think it’s safe to say that he really isn’t doing the Indy 5 hats.

I’m in agreement with you IJJTM. That doesn’t strike me at all as a Penman-esque fedora. John being ill pretty much sealed the deal for me as far as him being counted out as the hatter for Indy V, but seeing that set photo confirmed it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Illinois_Jones · Post by **Illinois_Jones** » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:33 pm

IJJTM wrote:Just a thought, but I don’t really see John agreeing to a tapered hat with that color of ribbon. Along with his sickness and everything else going on, I think it’s safe to say that he really isn’t doing the Indy 5 hats.

Right? Some of the other photos make it look less tapered, but yeah, totally, that ribbon doesn't look like the correct color. Plus the brim looks too wide on the sides, like it's not a dimensional cut. Looks almost like a Fed III. Maybe I'm being overly critical, but as many people here can attest, you notice these things.

But yes, back to the topic, I think it's fairly obvious John didn't make it. It might be a refurbed AB, but even then I'm skeptical.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:50 am

Update on Penman. Today I opened my email to this, "Hello, order update. Your hat is completed but we are waiting fir Penman hat boxes. The manufacturer has had problems getting fabric for the hat boxes but just got the materials in today. They tell me eta for it to arrive at Penman hats is 2 weeks. Once they arrive. I will be boxes up a few dozen hats to ship. Thank you fir your patience and understanding."

This shocked me since when I ordered on Paypal, in the comments my hat was said to arrive in November, and on top of that two weeks ago I got asked about the recent bout of refunds, and I got back, "Since you are so far out I’m hoping he recovers so no refund at the moment."

So I asked to make sure they got the right guy and I got this back, "Me Penman when he got back from SoCal was working day and night before he went ill. There are 3-4 dozen hats that he completed that need to be shipped. Your is one of them."

This has me really perplexed since people who ordered from him way earlier than I did have been getting refunds. (On a side note I noticed that all of those refunds were for ABL Raider hats, so I suspect it has something to do with the felt manufacturing). I had asked John in November what his wait time was, he said June, I asked the next month and he said July. My best guess is that the Paypal message hadn't been updated in a while. I hope that this helps shed a bit more light on John's situation.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:47 am

IJJTM wrote:Update on Penman. Today I opened my email to this, "Hello, order update. Your hat is completed but we are waiting fir Penman hat boxes. The manufacturer has had problems getting fabric for the hat boxes but just got the materials in today. They tell me eta for it to arrive at Penman hats is 2 weeks. Once they arrive. I will be boxes up a few dozen hats to ship. Thank you fir your patience and understanding."

This shocked me since when I ordered on Paypal, in the comments my hat was said to arrive in November, and on top of that two weeks ago I got asked about the recent bout of refunds, and I got back, "Since you are so far out I’m hoping he recovers so no refund at the moment."

So I asked to make sure they got the right guy and I got this back, "Me Penman when he got back from SoCal was working day and night before he went ill. There are 3-4 dozen hats that he completed that need to be shipped. Your is one of them."

This has me really perplexed since people who ordered from him way earlier than I did have been getting refunds. (On a side note I noticed that all of those refunds were for ABL Raider hats, so I suspect it has something to do with the felt manufacturing). I had asked John in November what his wait time was, he said June, I asked the next month and he said July. My best guess is that the Paypal message hadn't been updated in a while. I hope that this helps shed a bit more light on John's situation.

Thank you for sharing this, IJJTM. I hope that this is a step in the right direction for both John's health and those still waiting for their hats. I most definitely think a large part of it was a delay due to COVID issue. I was always under the impression that John sourced materials for the ABL hats from the same manufacturers that Steve Delk used, and not necessarily from the same places that he sources for his own hats. I think I got my ABL before others who had placed orders before me, but my hat happened to be a beaver CS and not one of the rabbit Raiders. Definitely seems like another piece of the puzzle has fallen into place.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:52 am

Mine is also an ABL CS. I remember asking Kohn about the Rabbit felt used in the ABL Raiders and I remember him saying that it was something he came up with, rather than Steve.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:00 am

One more thing, more generalized Penman question. I was under the impression that I would have gotten an email saying that he had started to make my hat. Does he usually do this or was I misinformed?

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:03 am

Searching for that email and I found it in my junk! I was getting a little worried as I had emailed twice in the last few months with no response, more out of concern for John really as he’s typically very responsive. I have an original delivery for December 2020, I do hope John is back on his feet soon.

On a troubling personal note I bought an Art Fawcett hat and a vintage Dobbs on eBay due at the end of the month. Three hats due in close proximity will take some smoothing over with my wife

Gerry

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:19 am

If you don’t mind, what hat do you have on order?

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:35 am

Hi IJJTM

Don’t mind at all.

It’s a charcoal Eno with a 2 inch brim, the same model Michael Rooker has worn. Shaved 1/8 of an inch off the brim to allow for my height.

What about you?

Gerry

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:13 am

Very nice, I’ve got an ABL Crystal Skull lined up.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:37 am

Looking forward to seeing some pictures of that!

Best

Gerry

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:09 am

I got the same email. I hope it is legit, but it feels off. My hat was scheduled to be done in October, so I’m shocked that Penman would have started on it months ago before becoming sick. Also, if it really was completed before he became sick, why did this assistant wait until now to give information. This also was an email sent to 22 people, which is unusual for a custom hat, and bad business practices to include other customers emails for all to see.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:38 am

I was a little perplexed that the email addresses weren’t put in bcc, bit of an issue from a data protection perspective, although I can see sense in sending a generic email to get the information out there.

In any case I was told back in November that supply chain issues due to Covid were pushing the date, then John had some close people pass away later in the year, and in this year has suffered illness. He seems to have suffered quite a time, as have many.

Generally I’m willing to cut a lot of slack given John’s reputation and the circumstances. All being said, a wait time of a year given the personal circumstances and the pandemic isn’t bad at all given he’s a one man operation. Although I’m waiting for an AB from 2007 so admittedly I may have a different perspective on wait times

Gerry

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:36 am

IJJTM wrote:One more thing, more generalized Penman question. I was under the impression that I would have gotten an email saying that he had started to make my hat. Does he usually do this or was I misinformed?

John did not inform me when he started on my hat. He also did not inform me that there was a delay until I contacted him first.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:54 am

The Aviator wrote:I was a little perplexed that the email addresses weren’t put in bcc, bit of an issue from a data protection perspective, although I can see sense in sending a generic email to get the information out there.

In any case I was told back in November that supply chain issues due to Covid were pushing the date, then John had some close people pass away later in the year, and in this year has suffered illness. He seems to have suffered quite a time, as have many.

Generally I’m willing to cut a lot of slack given John’s reputation and the circumstances. All being said, a wait time of a year given the personal circumstances and the pandemic isn’t bad at all given he’s a one man operation. Although I’m waiting for an AB from 2007 so admittedly I may have a different perspective on wait times

Gerry

The Aviator, I am more confused by how the wait time shortened. Given all circumstances I was expecting, and willing, to wait much longer than my quoted time of October. What seems off is that with all the issues John has had recently I am somehow getting my hat 4 months early. It just doesn't seem likely that John made my hat months ago, before becoming ill, and I'm just hearing about it now.

Is this email address (jpenman3@gmail.com) the same one the refund communications have been coming from? I'm not sure how I can verify it is a legit communication.

Also, John's website still refers to him sending a paper loop to verify sizing before making the hat. Does he no longer do this?

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:55 pm

Tuba, I didn’t notice the emails being linked, that’s odd. Also, did you email John specifically about your wait time, or was it mentioned after you paid? I emailed John specifically about the paper crown, and I ended up receiving it a few weeks after I paid. Also, most importantly, what hat are you getting?

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:23 pm

Tuba apologies! I completely misunderstood your timeline - I assumed you were October LAST year.

That is very peculiar, I also didn’t notice the email was not from info@penmanhats.com, as it just came up as “John Penman”.

I had to chase John back in January or February for this, so he still does send them. I would expect it for a custom hat.

I may give them a call just to verify this.

Thanks

Gerry

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:29 pm

IJJTM, there was a lot of confusing things going on with my order from the start. I placed an order, and emailed John to confirm he got it. He replied that he had. Mid January I changed my order to a Last Crusade in Portuguese Beaver felt. When I emailed to change my order I also requested to know what the estimated completion date would be. He replied back that he could not locate my order to change it. I had to email him his original email where he had responded to me that he had received my order. He told me to resubmit my order, and at that point (Jan 22) I got the PayPal bill that I paid, and he confirmed that he put me on his list for October.

I think it was an accidental mix up, and was glad to have things worked out and confirmed. I'm nervous to think what would have happened if I had not changed my order.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:38 pm

Aviator, no worries. I should have been more clear about the year. I will be interested to see what happens in a few weeks. I will not complain about getting my hat early if that is was is actually going on.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:41 pm

Yeah, I kept putting it off, but I had planned to increase my hat by 1/8 of an inch head size-wise. I asked his assistant about it, but it seems that John just gives her announcements to make and doesn’t actually receive any. Does anyone have ideas of how I could fix this once it arrives? So far I’m just thinking I could put in a hat stretcher that I 3D printed. It’s helped my Everyman increase a centimeter, so I’d assume 1/8 of an inch isn’t much of a haste, but I was wondering if anyone has a better idea.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:47 pm

I asked Dave Garrison this same question a couple months ago regarding one I had rebuilt that needed an extra 1/8", and he suggested using the tried and true method of turning your sweat band wrong side out, wetting it down, turning back in, then inserting a hat stretcher and stretching to the extra size you want without distorting the brim. Allow to completely dry for a day or two.

We used to do this all the time with Federations.

I did this, and it worked perfectly.

Just a thought.

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, as that's a 'gear care' discussion.

Regards! Michaelson

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:54 pm

Hmm, I’ll give that a shot. Also, by wrong side out do you mean pulling out the full sweatband as to where you can see it hanging out an inch? Also, how wet should I get the inside of a beaver hat?

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:07 pm

I received this response to my questions. I'm sharing because it pretty much confirms what was discussed above. It looks like some felt (probably the ABL raiders felt) couldn't be supplied, which is why some of our hats were made earlier than anticipated.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:12 pm

IJJTM wrote:Hmm, I’ll give that a shot. Also, by wrong side out do you mean pulling out the full sweatband as to where you can see it hanging out an inch? Also, how wet should I get the inside of a beaver hat?

Yeah, just turn it out as you described. Wet it good. pop it back in, then insert the stretcher and stretch. It won't hurt the hat at all.

Regards! M

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:23 pm

Should I remove the liner beforehand, or should it dry out?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:26 pm

I always leave mine in, as they're usually sewn in, and never had a problem, but your call.

Either way is fine.

Regard! M

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:42 pm

One more question, you make the inside where the sweatband sits wet, correct?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:43 pm

Yes, the 'rough' side of the sweat so the water soaks into the leather. That's what will allow the leather to stretch easier, and once dried, HOLD said stretch.

Just a quick aside, if John wrote anything on the sweat, you may want to avoid wetting those areas, just in case he didn't use indelible ink. It might smudge. If he used ball point pen, no problem.

Regards! M

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 pm

Thanks for the assistance, Michaelson!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:50 pm

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:12 pm

As far as I know, John hasn’t started to take any new orders, and it seems to me that he cancelled all of his ABL Raider orders, and I would assume others. He about to ship out 3-4 dozen orders, some of which were due at the end of the year. What I’m getting to is, does anyone else think this might be John’s one last hurrah before retirement, or am I just looking too much into it?

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:54 pm

I have a feeling you may be right. I hope not! I hope he makes a full recovery and can start taking new orders again, I would love to get a CS from him. I worry about how long he has been ill, this is no small illness to have lasted this long.

I wish he would train someone and pass down his knowledge so the Adventurebilt name would continue.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:02 pm

Same, and don’t forget the Penman name as well. I really hope he recovers, but if something horrible were to happen, I hope he has something lined up to continue his brand.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:15 am

Does anyone know who Anna is? Like is it one of John’s friends, or did he hire her locally, or something else?

Forrest For the Trees · Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:30 am

This is really bumming me out. I hope John is okay. There aren't many custom hat makers out there, and I found him to be a real stand-up guy. Couldn't have been more welcoming when I stopped by his studio, even though I was only picking up an Everyman from him, not one of his customs. Spoke to him on the phone afterwards too, when he realized I was a member here.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:24 pm

Well, it actually happened. I am so fortunate that I was able to receive this hat. John is an artist and I'm so humbled by this beautiful hat. I just unboxed it 20 minutes ago, so I will add my thoughts and review later. But first impressions, its incredible in every way.

Penman Crusader in Portuguese Beaver

A few more pictures: HERE

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:26 pm

Love it, that color is just beautiful.
John does excellent work and I’m so happy for you, nothing like getting a new hat and this looks to be a perfect fit.

Croft

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:01 pm

Did you get any shipping info sent to you?

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:33 pm

I did, I got an email to confirm my shipping address on June 25. Then on June 26 I got an email through PayPal that said my package was shipped and provided a tracking number. I’ve been obsessively refreshing the page ever since, until delivery.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:40 pm

Thanks tuba, you’ve got me me even more excited for mine to eventually show up. Also, the hat really suits you.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:59 am

Got my address confirmation on the 26th June, but no PayPal confirmation of postage, hopefully on the way to me!

Best

Gerry

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:16 am

Tuba, gorgeous hat! That lid looks great on you!

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:08 pm

Thank you Croft, IJJTM, and Canyon!

IJJTM and The Aviator, I hope you get your hats soon. I’m looking forward to some pictures when you do.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:48 pm

Will do. Also, did you get pictures of it before it was sent out?