Club Obi Wan

Well this is not looking good, I have not heard anything from KingNothing. So I have no idea what to do now. I guess my only option is to try another e-mail for a refund or something. Its been a long time and frankly I would rather spend my money elsewhere. Is anyone else having better luck getting in touch with KN.

IndianaChris

Well I sent him an email using the address from his website. I believe I sent it on sunday or monday and asked him to reply within a week and as of day I haven't heard anything at all. Like you, I wanted to believe that eventually he would come through with a gun but the lack of emails is killing me.


IL

Ya Indiana Lurch I definately feel for you too, but I am just tired of waiting for something that may or may not be made. The last I heard from him sounded promising, and that was Nov 2008, but I have not heard a peep from him since then, so I will try to send another e-mail, but I am not sure if I am even going to get a reply. Hopefully KN will respond.

IndianaChris

Well it's been about a week, I guess it's time to throw in the towel since I haven't heard a darn thing

IL

Well I finally got a hold of KN, and he said he could offer me a refund so I hope you get a hold of him Indiana Lurch. Maybe he e-mailed you yesterday as well?? Just wanted to let you know I was able to get a reply back from him.

IndianaChris

Same thing here, he's going to give me a refund

IL

Gents,

I've sent King Nothing several e-mails since my last post on this thread. He has yet to reply to a single one. I've been requesting a refund since November 21. I've heard tales of him refunding money to other members here, so I'm not sure why I've been passed over.

If you haven't already, read my last post before you consider doing business with King Nothing.

Please let me know what, if anything, you've heard from him, and how you were able to get in touch with him. There's a phone number listed on his website. Has anyone tried calling him?

Let's make a concerted effort to work toward getting our refunds.

Best Regards,

-Jonesing

Hey Jonesing

I emailed him using his website email and about a week and a bit later he emailed me saying that it wasn't going to be possible to make them, at least not any time soon, so he's going to send me a refund as soon as he gets the cash

IL

Anyone get their refunds yet cause it has been a little while. I have not gotten a single refund yet, I agree with Indiana Jonesing, lets make an effort to get our refunds back. If I don't get my refund within the next week or so I am going to send another e-mail. Cause it has been about a month since I asked for one.

IndianaChris711

Nope, haven't recieved mine

IL

I am assuming people still have not gotten a refund from KN, I have not gotten a refund yet. I am going to e-mail KN and see what is going on.

IndianaChris

Nope, still haven't recieved a refund yet

IL

So IndianaChris711 or Indiana_Jonesing, have heard from him or got your money back yet??? I haven't and I just sent him an email asking for my money now as I would like to use it for my Gobler idol

IL

No I have not heard anything, actually I am about to send him that e-mail. I have not received any refund whatsoever so maybe will bombard KN with our e-mail's. I hope he justs gives me my refund, that is all I ask.

EDIT: e-mail sent

IndianaChris

Lurch, you get an e-mail back or anything?? Cause I have got nothing back. I will give him a few days and if not a second e-mail goes out to give a warning, because I am going to contact paypal and see what they can do to get my money back.

IndianaChris

This is just a shame.

I read through this the other day and was wondering how "established" he was before attempting this run. I mean he had been a member for a while and had under 200 posts, although most of his posts were in this thread. I'm just wondering how much interaction he had with others, before he tried this run.

Mike

I was one of the lucky ones who got a refund back in October ... I think THIS whole snafu makes a good case for an official 'COW' policy against acceptance of payment-in-full BEFORE having a 'product' ready to ship.

ROOK is doing it right with the Webley Green; NO payment whatsoever accepted until he's ready to send the goods out to you! At minimum, nothing more than a deposit to cover materials should be required...

Chachap wrote:I was one of the lucky ones who got a refund back in October ... I think THIS whole snafu makes a good case for an official 'COW' policy against acceptance of payment-in-full BEFORE having a 'product' ready to ship.

The official COW Policy is CAVEAT EMPTOR: Buyer Beware. It's stated in the sticky at the top of the classifieds section. It is ultimately up to the customer to trust and work out payment with a vendor or anyone selling goods.

REMEMBER, BUYERS/SELLERS PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK, "CAVEAT EMPTOR!"

INDYGEAR IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SALES OF ITEMS OR ARRANGEMENTS MADE THROUGH CONTACT AND/OR CONTRACT OF A SALE BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS USING THIS AREA.

While this whole mess stinks, we are well aware of what's been going on and are discussing this in the back room.

Ooooh, does it involve sending in the Navy Seals? I do so hope the Seals get involved. Oh I wish I was a fly on the wall in that back room. I can't imagine what y'all have cooking up.

Perhaps we can all drive to his house and camp in his driveway?

Bink -- I'm aware of that official policy, and it's a good one -- but taking it a step further, such as with the policy about 'listing a PRICE' on goods posted in the Bazzar, wouldn't be difficult. Just say, "hey, you want to do this, GREAT, but these are the club terms you're gonna have to work by."

It may be argued that it could stifle some projects, but I think anyone capable of producing a QUALITY run on an item will also be savvy enough to be able to finance the startup on their own -- I suppose if the dude's got a track record, then maybe it mightn't apply -- but even then, look at how often LIFE intrudes on these extracurricular endeavors (even Rook & Gobler experience delay after delay), and it's the club members who plunked down the cash, in good faith, who are left waiting and HOPING (and in this case, SOL)...

Honestly, the policy is fine as is. We don't have the ability to force business practices on any vendor and we only provide the ability to allow selling on this site as a courtesy to its members. Again, caveart emptor. Anytime to make a purchase anywhere, be it online or in a live store, you take certain risks. It is no different here. It is up to the customer to do his or her homework and assess any given risks as to working with a specific seller. It's already stated that IndyGear/COW is not responsible for such mishaps, so it doesn't make sense for us to dictate a seller's business factor since it contradicts that very statement.

I too was one of the lucky ones and recieved a refund, even after getting one of resin peices. Sorry to say, I wasn't impressed. If his web site is still up, there's a email address there as well. This was how I finally got through to him.

Good luck to all.
Croft

binkmeisterRick wrote:We don't have the ability to force business practices on any vendor... Anytime to make a purchase anywhere, be it online or in a live store, you take certain risks. It is no different here.

Who am I to argue; perhaps we're getting into some legal 'gray area' here whereby if COW declares anything BUT Caveat emptor, then it opens itself up to liability, but it seems to me that there are plenty of rules in place for posting messages on the forum, in general, and to stipulate certain requirements (okay - hey - call 'em GUIDLINES) on any individual/vendor on making a run available to the group is only 'forcing' them to comply IF they want to sell HERE, in order to reduce the opportunity for fraud -- or even just the loss of members' money in the case where the vendor had the best of intentions, but perhaps just keels over dead one night.

I honestly think these limited PREORDER 'product runs' fall into a completely different category than your typical brick & mortar, or online/mail order purchase, where you either see/touch the item in front of you, or expect the vendor to ship an existing product within a reasonable timeframe.

In a 'related point', I was reading an overview of PayPal's terms on 'Rights and Remedies' for getting your money back, and it's not as easy as just telling them "Hey, I want a refund!" Check out the PP User Agreement carefully, or PM me for the link I was reading...

Chachap wrote: Who am I to argue; perhaps we're getting into some legal 'gray area' here whereby if COW declares anything BUT Caveat emptor, then it opens itself up to liability, but it seems to me that there are plenty of rules in place for posting messages on the forum, in general, and to stipulate certain requirements (okay - hey - call 'em GUIDLINES) on any individual/vendor on making a run available to the group is only 'forcing' them to comply IF they want to sell HERE, in order to reduce the opportunity for fraud -- or even just the loss of members' money in the case where the vendor had the best of intentions, but perhaps just keels over dead one night.

First of all, COW is NOT liable for any transactions here, period. This has always been and always will be a place to discuss the gear. It was never intended to be a shopping mall of sorts. Sure, we share information regarding vendors and where to get things, and we provide a courtesy for folks to post their wares, but IndyGear has never been a store. If that were the case, then the fine folks of LFL would've shut this place down long ago. As it stands, there have been numerous major fires behind the scenes in the past that we put out and which few, if any, are aware of. But the point of the matter is that we came very close to having our doors shut down on more than one occasion because of members here. That is another reason why we will not be responsible for the actions of others. We want to be a place to discuss things, not a place to babysit (which is kind of how it feels some days).

As for the posting rules and guidelines, they are all put in place for good reason. Many of the rules are made after the behavior of some requires us to put a new rule in place. But at the end of the day, this is a privately owned forum. It's not a democracy. Love it or leave it, that's how it is. If you have issues with the rules and guidelines then feel free to bring them up in the feedback section, where it belongs.

Regards,

b

Bink -- I'm certainly not trying to get you all worked up over this -- just throwing some 'talking points' out that y'all can discuss "in the back room."

I wasn't suggesting that COW 'is' or 'should be' liable for ANYTHING other than providing a world-class forum; I was just speculating that perhaps "IF" management were to take a different position, it might increase exposure... And I didn't say I had a problem with any posting rules, just a fact that they exist.

You wrote:

...guidelines, they are all put in place for good reason. Many of the rules are made after the behavior of some requires us to put a new rule in place.

Pretty much the very point I'm trying to make.

.

No worries. I was equally explaining reasons to those who might have wanted more background into it. Carry on...

Indiana Croft wrote:I too was one of the lucky ones and recieved a refund, even after getting one of resin peices. Sorry to say, I wasn't impressed. If his web site is still up, there's a email address there as well. This was how I finally got through to him.

Good luck to all.
Croft

That has been the problem, I mean e-mailing him has not worked, at least I have not gotten a response, I mean maybe I should e-mail him again today. There is no phone number or anything I can get a hold of the guy, but you know he told me about 2 months ago I would get a refund. He was also offering instead of the refund of Indy gear items he had, but again I just wanted my money back. I never even received a resin piece, the only reason I got into this run was cause how nice Indiana G's resin gun was, and I think that was the only one that even looked good. Anyway I will try again to e-mail, but likely I am going to call paypal sometime next week.

I had something similar happen on ebay with someone different, at least I bought the product and received it and I didn't like it, and he said you could send it back within 7 days. So I did, but then he RTS (return to sender) on me even though I sent it back within the time frame. I ended up getting my money back through my credit card company.

Anyway with this situation I don't know why he does not respond to e-mails, he is in Canada, I don't think I can just drive to his house and show up at his driveway, nice idea though.

IndianaChris

Well I just checked out the website, they have a number now.

1 888 PROP 505 or 1 888 776 7505

I am going to call it right now and see what happens.

EDIT: called it did not even ring, just went straight to a voicemail box, so I left a message, I just tried to leave a detailed message as possible and left my phone number to reach me back. So maybe lurch, and jonesing, maybe you want to try this as well?? I will see what happens and let you guys know of any developments.

IndianaChris

I got an e-mail from KN, and he is waiting on this month's paycheck at the end of the month. He said he could refund me maybe in 2 or 3 days, but he is not 100% sure. He is going to refund people, as he said he feels bad for not refunding the money and it is inexcusable. I don't know if anyone else has heard back from him, Lurch you get anything??

IndianaChris

Yup, got the same email so we will see how this plays out

IL

Well I have not gotten my refund yet, have you lurch at all?? Just was wondering since it has been over a week since I heard anything.

IndianaChris

Nope, nothing yet though he did say that he was waiting for customers to pay him at the end of the month so I'm gonna give him until Friday

IL

Well, I recieved an email saying that he was giving me a partial payment for now (yeah) but then recieved an email saying he had the wrong email for my paypal account (which he did) and then cancelled it...I emailed the right account and since then have heard nothing (2-3 days)

AArrrrgh

IL

indiana lurch wrote:Well, I recieved an email saying that he was giving me a partial payment for now (yeah) but then recieved an email saying he had the wrong email for my paypal account (which he did) and then cancelled it...I emailed the right account and since then have heard nothing (2-3 days)

AArrrrgh

IL

What the in the world?? Partial payment??? How could he have the wrong e-mail he should have your contact and that in paypal. Plus all the e-mails he has been getting from us. That is strange, I have heard nothing, no refund no anything from KN. I will give him an e-mail, but if no response over the weekend I will call paypal and see what they can to, to get some type of agreement going.

IndianaChris

Anyone get a refund yet??

IndianaChris

I am a member of another group (dentedhelmet.com) and there seems to be an issue with a prop guy who was going to make a bunch of blasters for people -- took a bunch of orders and surprise surprise never came through - he claimed that UPS lost all dozen, etc. Now he's giving the same story about partial payments and all that... sounds very familiar. I wonder if it's the same guy.

It's really sad that this situation is still dragging on here, after SO long. He had a similar backlog of unfulfilled customers at the RPF as well, and it reached the point where the staff had to give a "make good or be banned" ultimatum before he finally gave any refunds or guns over there.

I would suggest making use of all of the contact methods available to continually remind him he still has outstanding orders that need to be filled or refunded. The only way those left hanging are going to get any satisfaction is to be a very squeaky wheel. It's obvious he's very good at simply ignoring PM's and emails, so I would use other methods to get in touch.

Trust me, we have been dealing with this behind the scenes for some time and are in the process of coming to a final decision regarding it.

WinstonWolf359 wrote:It's really sad that this situation is still dragging on here, after SO long. He had a similar backlog of unfulfilled customers at the RPF as well, and it reached the point where the staff had to give a "make good or be banned" ultimatum before he finally gave any refunds or guns over there.

I would suggest making use of all of the contact methods available to continually remind him he still has outstanding orders that need to be filled or refunded. The only way those left hanging are going to get any satisfaction is to be a very squeaky wheel. It's obvious he's very good at simply ignoring PM's and emails, so I would use other methods to get in touch.

Well I guess if I had known this at the beginning, maybe I would have never done business with KN. I just e-mailed KN and see if he responds. Otherwise I will call the number on the website and see what happens. Last time I just got a answering machine and I left a message. I even left my number there. He did get back to my e-mail last time, but still it seems like another excuse. If nothing happens this week I have to call paypal, maybe they can contact him or something so we can settle this ordeal.

IndianaChris

Well I started emailing him every day for the past week, to see if I would get a response and never heard a peep out of him, so my last email I told him he had a week and then I was contacting paypal. I hate doing it but this is just stupid.

IL

I tried calling the number I had referenced before on his site, and now I get a bunch of beeps like fax machine or something. Really strange..... Well I am calling paypal tomorrow afternoon I have tried and tried, and that is my only hope. Lurch IMO urge you to do the same, its time to start acting and stop waiting, cause he is not going to respond back it seems like. I guess we will see what happens.

IndianaChris

Well one year ago today I gave KN my money for this prop, I called PayPal today and really there is not much they can do unless they see a trend here in the next 6 months KN's account of disputes I guess with him. I am not sure how they did not see the previous disputes. I did finally get through on the phone line as well and left another message, I say we bombard this guy with phone calls at movie prop services. PayPal did say they would be keeping an eye on his account and I did post a message in the resolution center as well to KN. I am getting tired of waiting, one year and counting on this prop, still no prop still no refund. I will keep trying and Lurch call PayPal maybe they will hear your voice as well and open a claim against KN, then we can get our refunds.

IndianaChris

Ok IndianaChris I will phone tomorrow....and I'll keep emailing him and try phoning as well

IL

Try phoning that was I think the only reason he responded back the one time. As far as e-mailing goes, I might send another next week, just don't overdo it on the e-mails (example, e-mail everyday would be maybe a bit excessive IMO). But yes definately call PayPal if you need any help trying to find that on your paypal account I can try to help you. You should be able to find contact us at the bottom and they give you all the instructions and stuff. Maybe they would open a claim against him, that is the only chance through actual PayPal people that we can get our money back.

IndianaChris

FYI: http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40127

Well on a positive note I got my refund. I just was wondering if any of the other people that were trying to get refunds did you also get a refund?? Well I am just glad I got this thing resolved and I hope whoever else asked for a refund as well gets one. Finally an end to the madness for me at least.

IndianaChris

Yeah, I recieved my refund

IL

I'm happy to read that you two recieved your refunds, I hope theres not to many more who are still waiting.

Croft

It's really great that everyone seems to have gotten their cash back! We can put this thread into a long earned rest now, lol. As I indicated many posts ago, I really didn't think that it was 'KN's intention to take the money and run, or else we all wouldn't have gotten it back. Although, the contact pressure no doubt made it happen; might have just let it ride if nobody was squawking.

It really underscores the problem/risk with putting money into the kitty upfront with one of these projects, and how easy it would be for the guy initiating the 'run' to make off with the startup capital. I know I've learned my lesson, and this is the last time I'll be paying up before there's clearly a product to be had (...but honestly, with all the photos and such, one could say that about THIS endeavor -- the pics and updates were there at the beginning).