Club Obi Wan

Yojimbo Jones wrote:Pattern confusion?

gwyddion wrote:

Yojimbo Jones wrote:Pattern confusion?

Some say the differences between patterns are to small for the patterns to have emerged independently. If the WC mock-up was used by all makers, that would explain the similarities in the patterns between some jackets by different makers.

Regards, Geert

_ wrote:..... Just know AD may have gotten creative in his interpretation of the jacket. .......

Wested was not given anything to copy. Peter told me he personally made number one and numbers 12-14. The others were made by his staff.

_ wrote:Jesus... Exactly opposite. How much clearer can I be when I say that wested number 1, 12, 13, and 14 ARE based on the WC mock-up? Is there anything unclear in that statement?

I a way too tired and I cannot seem to sleep. But guys - what do I have to do to be clearer?

_ wrote:...Before leaving b&n, Peter (with Noel) went to Ian and checked-out the wc mock-up so Peter could keep it overnight. The mock-up was returned the next day when Ian sent a courier to get it. Peter did not submit his prototype until the third day following his visit, hence KK and others stress over having a jacket.

KK checked out the mock-up the day before leaving for France - two days before they received peters prototype. When they returned from France, Ian checked two new jackets from kk (the pos and the Cooper). Ian knew about Neil Cooper making a jacket. That was the primary hero.

_ wrote:YJ - jetjag? Truer words, my friend...

We owe the design to whoever at wc did the work on the mock-up. I think you get that.

This does **** - I have meetings with military types all day and I just know i'm going yo down the 4-pack of red bull in the honor bar. G-night gents. Sorry if I snapped...

I needed a decent budget to accommodate the many stunt people, stand in's, additional units, and dummies (stuffed). But the unit production manager was ruthless. It was not pretty. I had budgeted for 10 jackets and to save money I ordered them from the very reasonably priced Wilson’s House of Suede and Leather in Los Angeles who custom made them for me based on a prototype I made at Western Costume Company. This is before any of us ever went to London to begin pre production at EMI Elstree Studios.
When the jackets arrived from Wilson’s I understood they would be unusable for the film. As I tried to age the first one, the leather peeled away in my hands, immediately the color of the leather came off, and giant holes appeared. I discussed this with Steven, George and Harrison. And it was Harrison who became my ally and advocate. I simply could not use these low grade jackets – it would be impossible to wear them in stunt situations and they would never look right. Finally, after much fighting about money – which was ridiculous given that the jackets were the centerpiece of the film – and after watching Heston and Ladd sporting them on the big screen – finally I was given the OK to design and make another set of 10 at Berman’s and Nathan’s Costumier’s once we arrived in London. These were also created from the original prototype that I created for Tom Selleck, made by Reuben at Western Costume. They had an “action back” of inset pleats, a 30s pattern device, which allowed for more arm movement, and adjustable tabs at the waist.

_ wrote: We owe the design to whoever at wc did the work on the mock-up. I think you get that.

...

crismans wrote:So, the main idea I'm coming away from all of this is that the designer at WC (Reuben?) deserves a case of his favorite beer delivered to his door.

Not quite how it works... In fact, I just discussed the topic more with MK - his recollections about his interview with Deb as well as his knowledge as to how things here actually work. To paraphrase, "She would have been out of her mind if she got on that plane from LA without having the samples she had already had made in-hand..." He confirmed that she clearly remembered getting 10 jackets from each vendor - Wilson, Western Costume, and Cooper. He also recalled that she was actually very partial to the Western Costume jacket... Again to paraphrase, she would have certainly brought these to Berman's and said, "I like this, but I don't like that..." Peter most certainly had jackets presented to him already made that he would either draw from via notes or even more likely take with him to build what she wanted. Given how big this movie was to her - I'd have to agree... Personally, I would have taken all of the jackets with me – wouldn’t any of you?

.....................

IMO - This makes it even clearer to me - given Peter's penchant for copying jackets and taking credit for all the work - that he had finished tangible samples/examples given to him with alteration notes from Deb... If it is not what happened, I'd love to hear a denial...

_ wrote:Just know AD may have gotten creative in his interpretation of the jacket. Anybody who's ordered a shirt from him will not be surprised.

_ wrote:Ok, since I cannot sleep...

The added info from my lunch with Ian.

Ian was in charge of tracking what went in and out of wardrobe and worked closely with the script supervisor.

Flash back to when the "group from the US arrived.". This included Neil. He checked out the mock-up from Ian in order to make detailed patterns. He had it for two days. This was before Peter was even brought in.

Before leaving b&n, Peter (with Noel) went to Ian and checked-out the wc mock-up so Peter could keep it overnight. The mock-up was returned the next day when Ian sent a courier to get it. Peter did not submit his prototype until the third day following his visit, hence KK and others stress over having a jacket.

KK checked out the mock-up the day before leaving for France - two days before they received peters prototype. When they returned from France, Ian checked two new jackets from kk (the pos and the Cooper). Ian knew about Neil Cooper making a jacket. That was the primary hero.

I'll fill in the rest later - I'm dozing...

Mountaineer wrote:I got superseded?

Sweeeeeeeet. LOL.

Even though I didn't have all the above information at my immediate disposal, I was looking forward to working through all this.

I'm back to the wings I guess.

Mountaineer wrote:DLJ,

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally happy to be superseded.

I was hesitant to even say anything on here owing to the years of research people had already contributed, not to mention those who have a physical closeness to the actual gear, receipts and people involved. Basically I didn't want to look like a buffoon and recreate a bad information wheel.

Somewhere back, when it was said there should be a chart of all this to help remove confusion, I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

Thanks again _, that's where I was hoping to go with my meager contribution to this fracas...

_ wrote:Yep. He had a couple agendas. He wanted to nail DN when she did not have a jacket. Not real noble, but he was tired of the @#$%. What he told me was that he was loaded for bear, saw a jacket on fords back and let it ride. After the shoot he decided to switch from a public flogging to a private one. KK took the bullet for her boss. Then SS instructed KK that DN as out of the loop and he was in.

_ wrote:Heading out for a night on the town with our hosts.

_ wrote:..........

Snuff? Is THAT what the locals were doing?

_ wrote: We are headed to Munich this weekend...

_ wrote:That's fair. I have no reason to believe that this specific representation by Peter was made with an intent to deceive. It is probably the only one I feel that way about, but frankly - and as said before - his jackets get caught in the friction between Deb and Steven.

Mike wrote:I think the line "the company that made the jacket for Raiders" still works. Its just that they're not the only one. Modifying one or two words from that statement, it still holds true. "…company that made jackets for Raiders."

Indiana Holt wrote:okay, alittle LC ''convince me'' discussion.

why oh why did wested have such problems recreating the LC jacket when they obviously remembered the jacket pattern for the movie 'cuffs' with slater 3 years after LC. you clearly see that the jacket is made from the LC pattern but they forgot to add snaps.

and if my memory serves me correctly Peter confirmed to me two years back that they made the cuffs jacket from the LC pattern...

so, they had it 98% right after LC, but some years later after cuffs, the LC pattern ended up as a ''raiders'' cut with snaps until CS got them back on track again....





you can even see in the picture above that it has the big beefy pocket flaps the LC jacket had.