Club Obi Wan

Chances are I'll put a Loves Sweet Song bash in the hat, but I was watching MotB a few hours ago and I like the look of Indy's hat when he is sitting on the staircase in front of Sidney Bechet's apartment. So I'm kinda torn between the two.

I made up my mind. I'd go with LSS bash. This hat just looks good.

Dutch_jones wrote:Fedora would you be so kind to show some photos of these hats you received? I find it weird that you received unworkable hats and everyone else seems to get pretty darn close to the Raiders hats with these....?

DR Ulloa wrote:I think your missing what Steve meant, Pitfall. What I got from Steve was that these hats are hit or miss. If you look at some of the hats that guys have recieved here, they have tapered quite badly very quickly and for very little reason. We have been lucky. I've been caught in light rain with no ill effects, but I remember a while back somone posted some photos of their Christy's after using a bit of water to shape the crown (something I did as well, though it didn't really need it) and the hat looked like the plane hat from Temple. These are hit or miss and $100 is alot of money to take a gamble on but from what we've seen, Hornets is more than willing to help out its customers if they get a bad egg.

Dave

No offense but the damage to his hat was NOT just form water you could clearly see that hat was squashed/ beaten or sat on.

None taken because we are talking about different hats. I wasn't referreing to Odo's hat. That hat was clearly abused. The hat I was thinking about belonged to Kokopelli. The hat looked brand new except it looked like a dunce hat. This is the hat I'm talking about: viewtopic.php?t=34222&highlight=christys

There are simply two different products coming out of Christy's, the good one and the HJ quality ones.

Dave

Good choice! I think from this bash (as well as the Mexico bash) the hat will "grow" into the other looks as it tapers/shrinks till you get to the TotPE look. I hope mine will arrive this week.
But it is quite hard to find a wide ribbon in that colour. But only if you´re interested in that detail ;-)

Na, I'm not a fan of wide ribbons. I'll probably order mine next Friday when I get paid. It'll be a late birthday gift for me ;-) When did you order your hat, Tremolo?

Alright, then you won´t have the trouble finding one ;-) Do you order it otherwise completely stock?
I ordered mine last week on monday, so should be here any day now. I´m really excited as I´m big fan of the series since it was on tv and always loved the way the hat looked.

Yup, I usually order things completly stock, unless it's custom made items.

The series is awesome! I was only 2 years old when they were on tv, so I missed out on them. It wasn't until they were relesed on VHS did I see them and it wasn't until I bought them on DVD did I really, really like the series. I love how Indy's adventures tie into actual historical events. I've learned a lot from those movies.

Back on topic...... ;-)
I'm excited for you, man! I think this hat will look really good with a YIJ bash. Make sure to post pics!

Any news on the new purchase Tremolo?

hi everyone happy new year and hope you all had a good christmas .

i got a christys for xmas #### its so soft!!! i found it a little awkward to bash because of this. Anyway i decided not to go for anyone perticular indy style, i did try and do the turn when i first got it but it just doesnt seem to work for me at all and just looks terrible ...il try get some pics up later

There are some bashing tutorials around, I suggest you to have a look at them. As for the softness, have you had previous experiences with bashing other hats/felts? In my opinion the christy's is the easiest to bash among the rabbit felts.
Let me know if you need any help

Erri wrote:There are some bashing tutorials around, I suggest you to have a look at them. As for the softness, have you had previous experiences with bashing other hats/felts? In my opinion the christy's is the easiest to bash among the rabbit felts.
Let me know if you need any help

yeah i bashed my fed IV which was no where near as soft as my christys. with my fed IV i can pop it straight on my head and dont have to worry that its out of shape....the christys on the other hand, well i have to push the centre dent down again everytime i put it on as it just pops up when i put it on . The bas just comes out because its so soft so i have to re-do it while im wearing it still a great hat though very comfy and has a certain ` thing` going for it

well show us some pictures (also of the Federation if you can)

Erri wrote: well show us some pictures (also of the Federation if you can)

ask and thou shall recieve

fed IV on the left christys on the right



christys

Kt Templar wrote:I personally found the light sable a bit light, I went with the Sable. But JMO some people like the light sable.


Sable:

These Christi's just has the look of Raiders. Something rings true about it, and I think this one of KT's is an example. I can't argue quality, durability, etc., but to me, when these hats are made well, it just has it.

Agreed Texan Scott

morethanatimelord wrote:

Erri wrote: well show us some pictures (also of the Federation if you can)

ask and thou shall recieve

fed IV on the left christys on the right



christys

There is a very weird bashing on the Christy's. Why is that?

I would lower the front pinch, you could use your Fed IV as a guideline.

Indy89, did you get your hat?

Erri wrote:Agreed Texan Scott

morethanatimelord wrote:

Erri wrote: well show us some pictures (also of the Federation if you can)

ask and thou shall recieve

fed IV on the left christys on the right



christys

There is a very weird bashing on the Christy's. Why is that?

well i just put it on my head, put in the centre dent took it off and pinched it i just put in the pinch where it felt natural really. Its not turned or anything have to say its a little tight even for a 59cm...

what looks strange about it exactly?

The front looks quite high. Maybe lowering it down 1cm might help. Your Fed IV looks good, use that one as a guideline (for the front height).
When I compare my Christy´s to my Fed IV the Christy´s is a bit tighter, but it seems to be normal since the crown of the Christy is a bit narrower than the Akubra. At least in my opinion

morethanatimelord wrote: what looks strange about it exactly?

Just that it doesn't look right ... for an indy hat
No offence but the bashing job on the Fed is much nicer... perhaps I'm too obsessed. Sorry

What's that Dracula thing in the background? It's brilliant

Erri wrote:What's that Dracula thing in the background? It's brilliant

....Drac is coming to get you for making fun of his fedora!

Better get some garlic!

No honestly, I wasn't making fun. Just thought it was a bit of a weird bash, just personal opinion

morethanatimelord,

How did you get the pinch that tight on your Fed IV?

jkdbuck76 wrote:morethanatimelord,

How did you get the pinch that tight on your Fed IV?

My guess is he used binder clips or clothes pins to hold it in place. But that is only a guess.

Cheers!

Dan

I've always thought it best to let the pinch form naturally.

Dave

Deleted, sorry about that. Fedora

I will try to post pics as soon as I can, Steve. To my eyes, my grey Christy's hasn't tapered. I have had it for quite some time now. I know I've had the hat longer than I've had my Penman and I have had that for five months. I'd ballpark it at around seven months. If enough of us band together and do as you suggested, I have no doubt in my mind that the factory would do that. That would be great. The sweat does ****. It is terrible. And the stitching on the bow is probably the worst I've ever seen. I fear taking the hat out in bad weather becuase I don't want to toss this hat away. I love rabbit felt becuase it is just so soft and floppy. A good rabbit hat will hold up for quite some time...not like beaver, but it can be reblocked and eventually the fur will die and the hat will never taper again.

Dave

Erri wrote:

morethanatimelord wrote: what looks strange about it exactly?

Just that it doesn't look right ... for an indy hat
No offence but the bashing job on the Fed is much nicer... perhaps I'm too obsessed. Sorry

What's that Dracula thing in the background? It's brilliant [/quote/]

Well i didnt really want to bash the hat in an indy style really...Like i said i plonked it on my head, put in the centre dent, did the pinch and thats it its been like that since. Out of all the hats iv seen i dont think it looks that strange iv never actually worn the hat for a full day yet, me fed IV is at least 5 months old now and has seen alot of wear in all kinds of weather so maybe the Christys needs the same treatment?

The figure you see in the background Erri is Christopher lee as Count Dracula, a company in the UK called Product enterprises made them in a small run...you should be able to pick one up on ebay very cheaply.

jkdbuck76 wrote:morethanatimelord,

How did you get the pinch that tight on your Fed IV?

No tricks im afraid its simple wear...my Fed IV has seen all kinds of weather (as you can imagine being in the UK ) and its just formed itself really

Fedora wrote:The block looks great already

I'm glad we can agree on that Steve. That's already something isn't it?

I've had my sable for several months now (since June I think) and believe me it has not changed since these pictures were taken.
viewtopic.php?t=31303

That's the only hat I've been wearing around since. You said wait a few months, I did, and nothing changed, still a great shape. It didn't become a cone or anything. Actually it got better because it became totally soft and now the brim swings in the wind just like the raiders hat did... and that gives to some people enormous satisfaction while it gets decades to the beaver felt to reach the same level... and actually none of my beaver hats had become soft, the one I mostly used actually became more stiff.

From what you said it sounds as if Christy's rabbit felts taper just by looking at them while any other brand (or felt) never does. I know that it's not what you mean but that's what it sounds like to lurkers' ears.
You must understand that since you dropped the AB rabbit felts the market was left pratically only with Akubra... which is not in everyone's taste plus doesn't have an European based seller so that here we're forced to pay import taxes etc.

I know that the quality of many other $200+ products surpasses by far and not surprisingly the quality that Christy's can offer but not everyone is willing to wait, batter and reblock continuously a hat for 2-3 years before it starts to look good.... in an indygear-way. And you have to admit that beaver is not what was in the film (original trilogy). For the film they used soft rabbit felt that tapered aswell... regardless of the higher quality of the vintage hats.

Since I met WhiskeyMan with his vintage Herbert Johnson I inevitably fell in love again with the rabbit felt because it looks, reacts and moves just like the film hats did, almost from the very moment you put it on your head. I regretted having sold my previous rabbit AB which is not on the market anymore so for a long time I was dying to get a rabbit again. When Christy's popped up with its price I was willing to try it because in reach of my pocket and I haven't regretted it yet.

It may last me 4 years or perhaps only 1 but I already have my durable beaver felts for harsh weather, what I needed was the right felt on the right block and I was immensely sastisfied with this one, and it's not as if we're paying £50 for a wool hat. I wanted at least one hat that was a costume hat like the film hat and not "what would have Indy worn in real life?" if you know what I mean.

I know you have had accusations against you but I hope you won't read any of it in my message Steve because I really have none and never had. I'm only stating why I think Christy's shouldn't be bashed so quickly away (and from such a high authority on the field as you are my friend) just because it's not a beaver felt or a super high quality rabbit felt. They don't last only 2-3 months and they don't taper before reaching your door, at least in my experience and in many others'. Of course if you only have received them to be reblocked you only saw the bad ones but I said already that Christy is wiling to substitute them for free when the goods come as they shouldn't. Don't know what else can we ask. Higher quality felt? Mah, I still have to see a rabbit felt that virtually doesn't taper and yet I would like to know how much better Akubras are... really. I've seen a few, and you have reblocked many more... still a rabbit felt and still tapered sooner than expected.

True, Dr. Ulloa, but the felt dying isn't necessarily a good thing - dead felt doesn't taper, true, but it doesn't stand up to the elements as well, either. I've heard stories of people taking a vintage rabbit felt out in the rain and having it literally come apart like tissue paper. That's not to say that will happen the first time you take it out, but on many levels, I'd recommend being a little more careful with dead felt than with the live stuff. -M

I didn't know that, Mulceber. I am pretty careful about taking my Christy's out in the rain anyway so I don't think that will change. It has had some exposure to light rain and for only a very short amount of time, but it has been rained on more than once. It has not tapered and I think it looks better than the day I received it. I'll try to post pics as soon as I can but my laptop is being floopy.

Dave

Deleted

deleted

Well Fedora, it seems to me that you're expecting too much from the HJ or the christy's ! Those hats where never ever intended to be worn on daily basis in heat/mist rain whatever. Thats the common mistake that separates the movie from the real life version. Although with your hats in indy 4 that has been broken because yours are much safer in the situations noted above.

Rabbit felt will always look better than beaver on screen because it
has alot more character than beaver felt. Sure it may not last as long but it sure does look good.

I ordered my second Christy's burma back in December. In another post I remarked at how my first one ripped at the brim break after my second reblock. Now, I really like this color of hat. I think it has an over all lighter tone than the "seaplane/Washington hat", but it is really close to my eye. It picks up more of the greenish (hint burma) when in bright sun light Not like the greenish tint in the brown Federation III Akubra's, but the greenish tint of gray (hint burma). Both Christy's had a very soft feel to the touch and would mimick the Raiders hat felt very well. I know what scene ya'll are thinking of: Indy holding his hat while he, Salah and Marion are watching the German convoy pull away. I love how the hat reacts as he pinches the crown.
This second Christy's Adventurer in burma was my test model for my block endeavor. In my opinion, the block that Christy's is used on is the same block that the German site HJ (remember when Whiskeyman discovered that site?). So I wanted to show a comparison of the two and to give hint of the reblock affect. Here it goes..

This shot is looking straight on the front of the hats. The blinds help emphasis the taper at the sides of each hat.

Side view. Christy's left. HJ right.

Remember that liner in the HJ?

The Vintage HJ on the left. The HJ (German site) on the right. The tapering on the HJ is what I have experienced on both the HJ's and my previous Christy's. The initial block shape is a contributor to this issue. That subject is a whole different post in itself.

This is a composite example of my new Christy's after blocking.
This time around, the felt has held up to numerous reblocks. It may be an example of a more stable felt, but I have not put it though a land surveyors examination to see how well it keeps it shape.

that vintage HJ does not have its original shape , that is a reblocked shape, I think that doesn't qualify it as any point of comparison?

Its amazing how much the Burma color looks brown next to the Sable color

I agree about the brownish tone that comes through on these pics. I describe it as "having brown without being brown". I ordered my first one back in the spring when the Hornetshat sight first popped up. In fact, I spotted the burma color and order it and the grey mix. The grey mix turned out to be one of those fuzzy felt types. Not my style. Still got it in the box. the burma always reminded me of the color hats my grandfathers wore.

As to the vintage HJ, that is the original block shape. No reblock.

REALLY!??? How come it looks identical to the old ab blockshape then? the one that was improved due to new findings?
Why would fedora improve the blockshape if it already looked like a vintage hj ? No that looked looks like an old ab and nothing like a HJ poet;)

PLUS how do you explain it hasn't tapered at all?

REALLY!??? How come it looks identical to the old ab blockshape then?

LLS owns several of my hats with my blockshape, so ask him if the vintage HJ was the same as mine. It wasn't, and he will tell you as such. It was different, on the side radius and the back. Fedora

All fine, but the Christy's doesn't look to have gone through that much effort, and it usually looks great

Wow that' a lot of information...and is priceless to anyone looking to replicate a Raiders fedora. Thanks Fedora


Cheers

Gee.. I've not been receiving email alerts for this thread for a day and there is a pamphlet to read
I need some time here

I'll answer as I read...

I do wear it just as a head cover, my hats don't go into the jungle but they have seen their share of scenery. Switzerland for one and Scotland quite often. I am of course careful of not leaving them in the car for hours in summer but I'm not scared of mist or cold/hot weather.

With all due respect I think the explanation lays in the simple fact that you're talking of Christy's basing on your experience with modern HJs (and a couple of already tapered Christy's which someone sent you to reblock instead of sending back to the factory). If I have had experienced the same situtation in this matter I would be of the same opinion Steve.

As for the steam and that if a hat can take it or not as a meter for quality... I wouldn't dare steaming an Akubra either but the Akubra are not considered as badly as Christy's for some reason and yet I remember the strong suggestion about using steam to bash the akubras. Now I have nothing against Akubra but it's the only example I have in hand. Afterall there are not many other brands doing rabbits.

If you see minor taper on the bow side is just because I made the little mistake of not bashing properly that side before it lost the stiffness so that the dent on that side is much less defined. And if I'm not wrong (please correct me if I am) Whiskeyman once stated (in other words) that that side of the hat has always had a little taper. It appears in the film and is normal. Now that the Raiders hat had no taper at all is honestly quite a fairy tale. You say my hat has a little of taper I say the film hat had a little of taper. First of all, most of the scenes with no taper where the ones shot in Africa and in general full of action and I have no doubts (and I will soon prove it, give me a moment to take pics) the hat was "tricked" into its beloved shape by a simple added thickness in the sweatband because the hat clearly had lost it's shape due to heat and usage or probably just kept flying away from Ford's head (or both). As a matter of fact the hat in "Cairo" looks very different from the hat we see in Elstree. If I am not wrong Nadoolman was not in the shooting in Africa and that would account for her never mentioning it but of what Nadolman remembers is honestly of little importance. Another hat that appear untapered is at the beginning of Raiders before they get in the temple but we have seen that that had had the back raised, no surprise there then.
Everywhere else in the film the hat had a litte taper... and since my hat can already match easily the Raven bar hat (which I have always loved) I'll post a picture showing what I think was used as a trick in the Cairo scenes (added to the long oval head of Ford which I'm glad to share with)... because I hope no one would believe that a hat won't fly away from the head during a windy day while you're being dragged behind a truck if no tricks are applied (such as putting something behind the sweatband)!
This is my modest little try... add that I have an long oval head... et voilà

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/e ... hristy.jpg

I hope it can be seen the bump forming on the brim... similar to the bump we can see in the market scene (when Ford gets very close to the camera), while experimenting I swear I got the exact same bump on mine, in this picture you can see it in a very "lighter" version on the opposite side (it depens upon where you place the "thickness" behind the sweatband).
In my opinion a hat that can achieve either the Raven bar look and the cairo look (after applying a simple trick that is not even a real trick actually) is a good choice for a Raiders hat. Of course everyone else can see differently upon what is accurate but that's another pair of hands. Everyone is free to disagree on what is accurate, no doubts there.

This stuff was only theorical until I got this soft rabbit hat. I already proved with Marc that the long oval head theory worked as part of the trick, Marc well knows and remembers that I've been quite obsessed myself with the hat in the past (especially the cairo one) but I hardly had anything to work on my ideas. I remember someone saying that they used paper towel behind the sweatband in the cairo scenes, no idea if it was true or even verified but it would explain a lot of "deformities" of the hat both in the taper (reversed) and brim shape which made the cairo hat so recognizable and adored. The cairo hat in Raiders was "worked" into that shape/look which it didn't originally have. I understand that plenty of people, surely the majority here, prefer a hat that already has a reversed taper from the start so that they don't have to trick anything and just wear the hat and enjoy the Streets of Cairo look, it is very understandable and I am happy that there is such a choice! No hassle, no excessive work on the bash. But the original hat had eccessive work on the bash and had tricks applied (talking of the cairo look) and lot of care and effort went into making what it looks like on screen. We shall not forget that important detail.


Well anyway a part all this, Steve, I know there is the "real-adventure school" which I highly respect in all possible way and in many cases agree with but in the same way as I buy a Wested lamb because we've heard that lamb was used originally (controversies aside)... just as the same I will never leave my rack empty of at least one rabbit felt for my Raiders material accuracy which I think is just as important as everything else in a hobby like ours that is purely based on the look, perhaps even more than the real-life feasibility. Adventurebuilt is by definition a brand that takes real life feasibility into the highest consideration so I understand your point of view and I also agree with it but I still need to have a felt-type accurate hat in my collection, you must understand that. If I go into a tropical adventure (or in a last crusade fight on a boat in a storm) have no fear that I will always rely on my beaver Adventurebuilts which I'm sure will keep on for a very long time. If I have to buy a new Christy once every few years, for £50 I think it can be accounted as the price of accuracy
... but I also always keep an eye for vintage ones of course, I might get lucky one day.

Thanks Erri you demonstrate exactly what is going on with the raiders hat;) it actually looks just like it. tell me how many times did you need to reblock yours to get it to end up straight sided like this?

Well it was just a very mild experiment, the cairo look went under much more stressing that I wish not to give to my hat. I am not saying that this is exactly what was done on the hat in the film, it is a theory and it has to be taken as such.

I'm sorry for the long replies anyway but it just reflects how much I love the Raiders hat and how much interest goes in it (now I understand why Steve's posts are very long aswell ).

However since this is a Christy's thread I do not wish to dispute on the original hat and what was done to it. I'm only stating that with the right treatment (possibly the same that was applied on the original hat) you can get the right look from the Christy. With no treatment you can easily get a Raven bar hat (and other Elstree scenes), with some more effort you CAN get the more hard to accomplish Cairo look (perhaps sacrificing a bit of the comfort). If people cannot be bothered "working" on the hat to get the look or loosing some of the comfort, plenty of offers on the market await them and its their right to buy them. Personally on my Christy I enjoy the Raven bar look, when I want a street of cairo I might aswell wear my Adventurebuilt because I don't fancy wearing a tightened sweatband just for the look and getting a headache after 10 minutes... and yet it would explain why in Cairo Indy often worn the hat high on his head (in the scenes where he's not in "action").

Phew, that was alot of reading! Interesting though.

I am new to all this and am just beginning to train my eye to the nuances of the fedora from scene to scene in Raiders. But Erris Christys looks very much like the SOC hat. It has the "beat up" quality to it.

Scott

In my opinion, the Christy's does not have the same block as the Raiders hat. The Christy's has too much taper on the sides and not enough taper in the front. I think that the AB Henry has the proper amount of front taper needed for the Raiders hat. You can tell right out of the box that the Christy's does not have the right block shape. Its close, but not exact.

The weakest point on the block, as Fedora pointed out, is the back. Now, I creased both my Christy's and my Penman and the center dents on both are of equal length. When you view the Penman from a straight on side view, it looks very close. Viewing the Christy's from the same angle, you can see it is wrong, very wrong. The rounding of the dome begins about 3/4 of an inch before the crease. Thats not a bad crease, its a wrong block. I've tried getting that coveted reverse taper in the back but the only way to do it is to drop the height in the back so much that the hat looks rediculous.

That doesn't make the Christy's a bad hat. It still makes for a nice hat (sans the bow work that was obviuosly done by a blind orangutan). I'd still take the Christy's block over the block Akubra is using on the Federation. The block they used on their Federation III was much better, in my humble opinion. In fact, if I weren't going custom, which is the best way to go, I'd say that the Christy's would be my second choice for a factory Raiders hat. The AB Henry would be first.

The Christy's strongest point is also its weakest and that is the felt. The Christy's felt reacts the same way I see in Raiders. When the hat is turned, it gets the same swoop, with the exact dip in the right side and the bump on the front of the brim. It also distresses the same way. My Christy's has developed a few distortions in the felt where there a bumps and dents in the felt that can't always be seen but can definately be felt. I am certain that this happened because of the heat and humidity in Miami. The felt didn't shrink or taper, it just distorted in certain places. I see the same distortion in the Raiders hat and I'd argue it is also due to heat and humidity.

The craziest thing is that the hat has also developed a bit of that coveted mushroom effect. Now, the sides of the hat aren't perfectly straight, but when creased correctly it can yeild a pretty straight sided looking hat. But straight sides or not, reverse taper is reverse taper and mine has it, more so on the non-bow side. It is pretty pronounced and all I have done is wear the hat. I have never intentionally distressed the hat. I don't think this is the same felt that was used in Raiders, that would be very nieve of me, but this is telling me that the felt, at the very least, behaves just like the Raiders felt should.

This also leads me to believe that the felt used in Raiders was just as poor quality as the felt used in Temple and Last Crusade. Its often stated that the quality of the hats in Raiders was better than in the latter films. I don't buy that.

The felt on the Christy's is definately not up for adventuring. Just by touching it you can tell that the felt is not very dense and will soak up water like a sponge. My Christy's has been rained on a couple of times and each time it was very light rain. But the droplets went right into the felt. That is bad quality felt. Because of this, I don't wear the Christy's unless I pretty sure that sunshine is on the days agenda, which in Miami is pretty much worthless, but its safer than wearing it on a grey day. But I have to say, even with teh heat, humidity, and the rain, the Christy's has not shrunk or tapered since I received it. That has to be worth somethng.

Dave

Errie, I would like to see that same hat you just posted but this time taking a look at the center crease. I think you split the center crease to keep your sides from have a slight tapper to it.


I don't think the Christy's block shape is a bad one at all, very close . I can crease them and get you a oval all Raiders look out of them like I do my own. Like my own it's close buy not 100%. Steve and David have nailed it. I have been working on improving my own block and it's clear we have been going in the wrong direction all this time.

The reason I don't like the Christy's. It's not worth the money. It's put together poorly. I was just tired myself of paying for a 100 dollar hat and then buying another one and then yet another. When I should have put down a few hundred and get a real quality hat. Thats why I was so happy to find this place and Steve Delk.

The best thing about the Chrity's is that you are not paying the full price of it's brand named brother.

Thats the real kicker. We are essentially getting an HJ with a different liner. I wouldn't pay the $400 that SAB asks for their hat. That is rediculous, especially when you can purchased the same hat for under $100 at Hornets.

Dave

Ehm Erri's Hat right there ! looks just like the raiders, In my opinion THAT counts as right blockshape. I really don't see why this need to prove how bad the christy's is in certain peoples eyes. let this just be a thread with pics and experiences.

I posted my experience with the Christy's and it has been great so far. I also posted what I thought about the hat. What is the point of posting only the pros and not the cons?

Dave