Club Obi Wan

Looking back over some of the earlier posts, I see that, according to them, the hat definitely WAS reshaped, and then reshaped once again to appear more screen accurate. This is a form of despoliation that is anathema to serious collectors. You would want the item, as closely as possible, to be the same as it was when last seen onscreen in every detail, including the soil markings that apparently also were "messed with."

eazybox wrote:Looking back over some of the earlier posts, I see that, according to them, the hat definitely WAS reshaped, and then reshaped once again to appear more screen accurate. This is a form of despoliation that is anathema to serious collectors. You would want the item, as closely as possible, to be the same as it was when last seen onscreen in every detail, including the soil markings that apparently also were "messed with."

While I agree with you in principle as you know all too well, a prop from so far back (when archiving was less diligent then it is currently) is less likely to be in the same condition today as it was when it was used during filming. Looking at the early props and costumes in the Ranch Archives its clear to see that those from Raiders were not carefully looked after as the subsequent movies - until more recently. The result of this is that they have often been abused and as it is when restoring a Leonardo the jury is often out when decisions to repair are taken.

PropStore have a reputation to maintain and I know that both Brandon and Stephen do as much as it humanly possible to verify these very treasured props before auctioning and I am sure Brandon will add more background to this thread sometime in the future.

M

KramStaar wrote:

eazybox wrote:Looking back over some of the earlier posts, I see that, according to them, the hat definitely WAS reshaped, and then reshaped once again to appear more screen accurate. This is a form of despoliation that is anathema to serious collectors. You would want the item, as closely as possible, to be the same as it was when last seen onscreen in every detail, including the soil markings that apparently also were "messed with."

While I agree with you in principle as you know all too well, a prop from so far back (when archiving was less diligent then it is currently) is less likely to be in the same condition today as it was when it was used during filming. Looking at the early props and costumes in the Ranch Archives its clear to see that those from Raiders were not carefully looked after as the subsequent movies - until more recently. The result of this is that they have often been abused and as it is when restoring a Leonardo the jury is often out when decisions to repair are taken.

PropStore have a reputation to maintain and I know that both Brandon and Stephen do as much as it humanly possible to verify these very treasured props before auctioning and I am sure Brandon will add more background to this thread sometime in the future.

M

Well, it hardly matters now, since the deal is done and the buyer presumably happy. But I have to admit that I was shocked when I finally realized that the photo of the fedora with the teardrop crease was of the ACTUAL AUCTION HAT. And the removal of the identifying soil markings that made Desi's hat so impressively convincing almost amounts to vandalism, in my opinion.

Removing the fuller's earth soiling that was actually shown on screen seems like an odd decision.

Forrest For the Trees wrote:Removing the fuller's earth soiling that was actually shown on screen seems like an odd decision.

And like the reshaping, it wasn't a decision that was made sometime in the dim past when less care was taken with props and costumes, but just before the auction. It makes no sense to me. It opens a whole can of worms and raises many questions that would have been unnecessary to ask had the piece simply been left alone.

eazybox wrote:

Forrest For the Trees wrote:Removing the fuller's earth soiling that was actually shown on screen seems like an odd decision.

And like the reshaping, it wasn't a decision that was made sometime in the dim past when less care was taken with props and costumes, but just before the auction. It makes no sense to me. It opens a whole can of worms and raises many questions that would have been unnecessary to ask had the piece simply been left alone.

Brandon dealt with the reshaping of the hat before the auction in his comments.

KramStaar wrote:

eazybox wrote:

Forrest For the Trees wrote:Removing the fuller's earth soiling that was actually shown on screen seems like an odd decision.

And like the reshaping, it wasn't a decision that was made sometime in the dim past when less care was taken with props and costumes, but just before the auction. It makes no sense to me. It opens a whole can of worms and raises many questions that would have been unnecessary to ask had the piece simply been left alone.

Brandon dealt with the reshaping of the hat before the auction in his comments.

Repairs or other changes should be made only when absolutely necessary. If memory serves, one of the Aston Martin DB5s used in GOLDFINGER had all its gadgets removed after the filming, only to have a subsequent owner reinstall less authentic ones. This isn't nearly that egregious, but it's the same principle. I would consider any "iconic" prop or costume item from a classic film that was reconditioned-- when no reconditioning or restoration was necessary-- to be damaged goods. But, horses for courses. Far be it from me to keep beating a dead one.

The hat certainly seemed more tapered when Desi presented it - as you'd expect from such an old hat - now it seems to have had almost a reblock.

All,

Absolutely no soil / staining / fuller's earth was removed from this hat. The hat was previously owned by Desi, was sold by Desi to another collector, and that collector consigned it directly to Prop Store.

The hat is in the same condition today that it was in when Desi owned it. Note also it passed through at least two other collector's hands prior to Desi owning it.

As for the shape - as discussed previously, this hat was never reblocked. The felt on the hat is incredibly soft. When set onto a human head form, the top of the hat pushes up, out of the "Raiders position." It is easily pushed back down to the way it should look. This has no doubt happened numerous times since filming was done.

There is absolutely no question as to the authenticity or provenance of this hat.

Regards,
Brandon

CRB wrote:Deborah Nadoolman was stood behind me when I took these, and I'm pretty sure she was mentally rolling her eyes when she was looking at it.

I wasn't sure what this quote meant so I followed up with Deborah directly. She confirmed she said nothing negative about this piece at the exhibition.

Regards
Brandon

Except for some indistinct smudges, the markings that clearly stood out on the hat when it was in Desi's possession do not appear to be there now, which can be confirmed by comparing photos."It is easily pushed back down to the way it should look." Then my question would be why, instead of simply pushing it back down to the way it should look, was it so drastically reformed and tightly molded into a teardrop crease and NOT the "Raiders position?" Regardless of who owned the hat before Desi or what may have happened to it at those times, it seems that some pretty drastic alterations were made AFTER it left Desi's possession, by people who should have known better.

easybox,

I feel like these questions have been asked and answered a few times in this thread.

There are pictures of the auction hat that have different bashes/creases. Brandon has explained the cause of the different looks.

He has also authenticated the providence of the hat as being the one once owned by desi.

The auction is over. The horse is dead.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Indiana Jeff wrote:easybox,

I feel like these questions have been asked and answered a few times in this thread.

There are pictures of the auction hat that have different bashes/creases. Brandon has explained the cause of the different looks.

He has also authenticated the providence of the hat as being the one once owned by desi.

The auction is over. The horse is dead.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Jeff,

My sentiments exactly. Sorry for the additional beating.

Since the sale is over, there's nothing more to see or say, so let's just ring down the curtain on this one.

Regard! Michaelson