Club Obi Wan

Mulceber wrote:I'll also say, if you've been spoiled on beaver fur, that HJ's rabbit is some of the best I've ever seen. It's still noticeably rabbit felt (it doesn't have the density of beaver), but the quality and the pounce is comparable to a decent beaver fur.

I'm looking more for screen accuracy on this one. I want the closest thing to an exact replica of the Raiders hat I can get.


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Ah. Well in that case my best advice would be either an HJ reboot or an Adventurebilt Legacy from Penman. Both are rabbit hats at a similar price point. The differences are that the Penman will look like exactly what you want out of the box, while the HJ you'll have to bash yourself, but will settle into its role nicely. Also, the HJ will be on your doorstep in a couple weeks while Penman is booked until March (just ordered an ABL myself - yes, I have too many hats, but we have too many great options!).

Mulceber wrote:Ah. Well in that case my best advice would be either an HJ reboot or an Adventurebilt Legacy from Penman. Both are rabbit hats at a similar price point. The differences are that the Penman will look like exactly what you want out of the box, while the HJ you'll have to bash yourself, but will probably settle into its role nicely. Also, the HJ will be on your doorstep in a couple weeks while Penman is booked until March (just ordered an ABL myself - yes, I have too many hats, but we have too many great options!).

Penman's are beautiful but I'm so impatient lol


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Also give some thought to crown height: if your hat size is above a 7 1/4, I would go for the "new" block - as I've said in previous posts, the Raiders block scales up the height of the crown with the hat size, which is all well and good, but I think it scales it up too much (it seems to be a quarter inch per hat size - a size 7 1/2 has a crown that is 6 inches tall!). The "new" block is a quarter inch shorter than the regular block, so a 7 3/8 will still be 5.5 inches tall, a 7 1/2 will be 5.75 inches tall, etc. Hope this helps!

I'm size 7 1/8, and I got a 5 1/2 inch crown (the movie spec), which worked perfectly for me. But I've seen some HJ reboots that look almost CAT IN THE HAT cartoonish (to me, anyway) and I think it's a pretty safe assumption that those are the taller sizings. They are improving, and gradually getting over the startup hiccups. However, if your top priority is fidelity to the film hat, I wouldn't recommend getting anything taller than 5 1/2, regardless of your head size (unless there's no way to avoid doing it-- I'm not a hatter, so I don't know the technicalities involved in hat sizing).

EDIT: If you have access to Facebook, you will find numerous photos of their finished work on their page HERBERT JOHNSON HATTERS PICCADILLY.

EDIT: If you have access to Facebook, you will find numerous photos of their finished work on their page HERBERT JOHNSON HATTERS PICCADILLY.

Yep, and they almost always tell you whether it's the original block or the new block. I'd second what Eazybox says about not getting above a 5.5 inch open crown, if you can avoid it.

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll have to make sure to specify which block I want. I wouldn't have thought of that!


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My head is close to 7 5/8 and the 6 inch crown is perfect. It is hard to calculate. What I would do is go to a local hat store (if any) even if it is low end or cowboy or factory or whatever and try on hats. Look at them in the mirror there. I found a cheap fedora and bought it for the 50 bucks and took it home, warped it, pulled it, and eventually and deliberately destroyed it trying to see what would be good before spending $$$ on a good hat.

Some folks, like H.Ford, have a larger face and smaller skull. Others, like my dad, have a smaller face and large skull. Hard to account for these things at a distance.

Hey darth I'd love to see you wearing your hat with the 6" crown. I'm 7 1/2 and mine looked ok when I looked in the mirror but then someone took a pic of me wearing it and I looked like Abe Lincoln.

Hey guys. I picked up my new HJ today in London. What do you think?








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It looks good! It looks like you may have some reverse taper going, which is great, although it's hard to tell because of the forced perspective of the selfie. Would it be possible for you to get someone to take pictures of you wearing it? The color looks great, btw.

Will try to get some better shots. It's beaver.


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Okay my Akubra Federation IV is a 61 and fits perfect. My fitted new era hat size is a 7 5/8. Can someone point me in the direction of the right Raiders Rabbit HJ to get? Their Facebook sends me to a website with only 3 choices so I'm a little confused about the block and hat size etc.

Edit: Also just noticed they offer multiple colors. Which color is more SA?

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For a Raiders hat, order it in the color Raiders sable. The block size is a bit more up in the air. My advice for a 7 5/8 would be to choose the "new" Raiders block (1/4" lower than the regular block). Hope this helps!

Mulceber wrote:For a Raiders hat, order it in the color Raiders sable. The block size is a bit more up in the air. My advice for a 7 5/8 would be to choose the "new" Raiders block (1/4" lower than the regular block). Hope this helps!

It does help, thanks!


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IndyFan89 wrote:Okay my Akubra Federation IV is a 61 and fits perfect.

If you end up ordering and receiving an HJ Poet, I would love to see side-by-side comparison pics with your Fed IV and a comparative review in which you share your impressions and opinions. I'm another "61" so I'd appreciate seeing what an HJ looks like in my size, and I'm generally an Akubra fan, so I've been hoping since the introduction of this new HJ line for a comparison from somebody who has both hats simultaneously in hand. Thanks!

I have a Fed IV back home in the states and I just bought an HJ. I'm curious myself to line them up side by side and compare. I'm overseas though until Nov.


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That would be kind of an apples and oranges comparison, wouldn't it?

The Fed is a factory produced hat, where the HJ is a custom 'bespoke' hat. Not sure what would be gained there.

Regard! Michaelson

We would learn that the HJ is pure awesome sauce.


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I'm hoping the HJ is much softer


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In terms of the texture, or how pliable it is? If the former, no need to fear - it's some of the best rabbit felt I've ever seen. If the latter, you can request it. You might want to buy some felt stiffener and apply it in select places though, because I've found it's quite hard to get a hat with no stiffener to hold a shape.

Ok so here is the gasoline tossed on an open flame...

Let me preface this by saying I don't know anything about floating sweat bands, stitching methodologies, build techniques, etc...I'm simply stating that from my engineering calibrated eye, the Herbert Johnson reboot matches EXACTLY what I see on the screen. HJ's Color, shape, height, fit all feels like what I see in Raiders. The height of what Jack purports is the original block is what I've always felt was missing from the other hats I have purchased. I am including side-by-side shots below of bespoke hats from Penman, Steve Delk AB and the HJ reboot. These are bespoke hats all crafted in beaver felt.

I'm in the middle of a move so I didn't have time or the luxury of setting up an elaborate measuring system for the crown heights but the HJ is taller by at least 1/4 to 1/2 an inch and it makes all the difference. All of these hats were ordered for 58cm and SOC bash.

I am not knocking the quality of the other hats; each of them is a superb hat and worthy of accolades that each person espouses. I am simply stating that for my quest of finding the hat that matches what I see on screen, the HJ reboot is the one that does it for me. Individual mileage may vary but, after I got HJ Reboot Beaver, I immediately pulled the trigger on the rabbit version of the same hat. I ordered a hat from HJ directly from R.A. Swales back in the day and I was very disappointed with what I received...24 years later, I finally got the HJ version that I've always wanted. Thanks and kudos to Jack at HJ.

As another point...I did wear this to the Nashville Wizard Con and had several people approach me because they thought it was spot-on Raiders. I even had a guy that owned a Penman say that he could tell mine was spot-on and asked if it was an HJ reboot.

HJ Reboot


Steve Delk AB


Penman


Left to Right: Penman - AB - HJ Reboot


Left to Right: HJ Reboot - AB - Penman


HJ Reboot:

Mulceber wrote:In terms of the texture, or how pliable it is? If the former, no need to fear - it's some of the best rabbit felt I've ever seen. If the latter, you can request it. You might want to buy some felt stiffener and apply it in select places though, because I've found it's quite hard to get a hat with no stiffener to hold a shape.

How do you add just a "little" stiffner here and there in places. I did not know that was possible.

Jeremiah wrote:

Mulceber wrote:In terms of the texture, or how pliable it is? If the former, no need to fear - it's some of the best rabbit felt I've ever seen. If the latter, you can request it. You might want to buy some felt stiffener and apply it in select places though, because I've found it's quite hard to get a hat with no stiffener to hold a shape.

How do you add just a "little" stiffner here and there in places. I did not know that was possible.

If it were me and I was bashing a Raiders hat with a tight front pinch I'd remove the liner and spray the inside of the crown where I would be shaping so it will hold better. You can do that to the bottom of the brim also to ensure it keeps its curl.

Jeremiah wrote:How do you add just a "little" stiffner here and there in places. I did not know that was possible.

it were me and I was bashing a Raiders hat with a tight front pinch I'd remove the liner and spray the inside of the crown where I would be shaping so it will hold better. You can do that to the bottom of the brim also to ensure it keeps its curl.

What he said. If you give a spray or two of felt stiffener to a few key places (the pinch, the back of the center dent, etc.), you can strike a nice balance between a floppy hat and one that holds its shape.

Your hat looks great, ride guy! The proportions are nice, and you (or they) have put a good bash in it.

Good to know.

Michaelson wrote:That would be kind of an apples and oranges comparison, wouldn't it?
The Fed is a factory produced hat, where the HJ is a custom 'bespoke' hat. Not sure what would be gained there.

My understanding, if I have read through the discussions on this forum correctly over the years, is that the original Raiders hat was an off-the-shelf HJ Poet that was hand-trimmed and shaped after purchase. (Please correct me if I am mistaken.) I am also under the understanding that the Akubra Fed IV was designed with input from senior COW members to replicate as closely as possible the hat seen onscreen. (Again, please correct me if I am mistaken.)

While having a "bespoke" hat that looks "just like the movie hat" straight out of the box might be important to some people, others of us, or perhaps it's just me alone, kind of like the idea of owning an off-the-shelf hat that looks as accurate as is reasonably possible, then allowing it to become an "Indy hat" through hand-shaping and real-world wear. Certainly a higher-grade felt custom hat would stand up to considerable real world wear, but my experience with Akubra hats suggests that their rabbit fur felt is plenty capable of withstanding a lot of use and abuse.

The apples and oranges analogy is accurate in that, described in words, it's not particularly easy to effectively describe the differences in appearance between an apple and an orange, beyond color. And even then, some oranges are green, as are some apples. Oranges are "more round," but how do you describe the shape of an apple, other than "apple shaped," unless you want to get in to some pretty complex mathematical description that is almost as complicated as describing the subtle differences between versions of the Indy hat?

For similar reasons, I, for one, would find it helpful to actually see a side-by-side comparison of the new HJ, which some seem to think is the most screen accurate bespoke Indy hat to date (although others have their personal favorites), with the Fed IV or Fed IV Deluxe, which is often recommended as the most screen accurate mass-produced Indy hat.

Some people like oranges. Some people prefer apples. Which looks better, an orange or an apple? Which Indy hat looks better, or more screen accurate, a factory hat like the Fed, or a "bespoke" hat that is made to resemble a factory hat that's been through the wringer? (Yes, kids, the phrase is "through the wringer," not "ringer." Back in the day the old washing machines had... nah, never mind.)

While I appreciate the photos of the HJ compared to other custom or bespoke hats, that's definitely comparing oranges to oranges, and the differences, to my undiscerning eye, are quite minute (although I must say that I looked at the photos without first reading the captions, and the HJ was the one that stood out to me as looking "the best"). Some years ago, when I got my first Fed IV, the moment I pulled it out of the box the appearance, setting quality aside, was worlds beyond the "authentic" Dorfman Pacific I (and some of you guys) started with. I would like to see if the difference in appearance between a "great" bespoke hat and a "very good" mass produced factory hat is similarly dramatic, or are we getting in to minimally incremental improvements territory?

What's to be gained? A greater appreciation for bespoke hats. A better understanding of the differences between good mass-produced hats and good custom hats. Or, potentially, a realization that a reasonably priced and readily available factory produced hat might not be all that different in external appearances from a much more expensive custom hat.

That's why I'm hoping for comparison photos between the Fed IV and the HJ.

Well said David.

Indeed, that was well put.


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I stand by my remark, as I was one of the 'senior' COW members who was responsible for the creation OF the Fed line.

The Federation line was created by finding an original, retired Akubra block out of hundreds that are in storage at the Akubra factory and have it come as close to what we saw on screen. Steve Delk and I worked with Ron at HatsDirect on this project.

This is taken directly from the Hats Direct site:

The Federation IV

The Hattery and Akubra Hats, together set about creating a new hat, selecting an older set of hat blocks we believe date back to the 1920's. Advice from Mark Cross (Indygear.com) and Steve Delk (Adventurebilt) the hat maker for Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, have assisted with the final result. The blocks used for this hat are original wooden blocks made by Akubra Hats. They have no pre determined shape. At no stage do we make any claim that this hat is a replica of the Indiana Jones hat as used in the movies. This hat has been made on a set of older hat blocks, and has been left in an "open crown" state allowing customers to shape according to their desire.

From that point on, the entire Federation line has been off the shelf production hats MADE on in-hand blocks. None were bespoke from day one.

If you're comparing an off the shelf HJ with an off the shelf Federation, you have an apples to apples comparison.

In this case you're wanting to compare an off the shelf Akubra to a custom bespoke HJ.

As 'well worded' as your explanation is, that is, and always WILL be, an apples to oranges comparison.

I still see little to gain from such a comparison, but that's JMO and has always been posted as such.

Take it for what it's worth.

Regards! Michaelson

At the risk of pissing off the wrong person, if someone wants to compare two hats -- whether it be a ball cap with a sombrero -- then I don't think anyone else can tell them it wouldn't satisfy said person. It just seems dismissive and insulting.

But that's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.


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I suppose there are different trains of thought concerning the Indy clothing that is available for consumers and what the consumers are actually willing to spend to get the look. Some people want as close as possible to the exact clothing items and some just like the general vibe of the look. Quite a few wear the fedora, jacket and boots as regular clothing items and some want the full Monty for collections or cosplay. Some are a mix of both.

I fall into the regular clothing wear type of person. I like the look of the jackets and like a good taller crown fedora. Need the taller crown for my Frankenstein head....lol Have even taken an expensive Indy fedora and changed it into a different bash with a teardrop. For me, the jackets do not have to be an exact replica and the same for the fedora. That being said, I do have really close ones to the movies but like my others just as much. Do like the Alden boots though.

So, just saying there is a place for everyone who is into the Indy look from those who are chasing an exact copy of the movie items and those who just like the general Indy vibe look. Both are equally cool.

I'll definitely post photos but now I have a new question; are there any tutorials on trimming the hat and how will I know if I need to trim it?


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senorjacob wrote:At the risk of pissing off the wrong person, if someone wants to compare two hats -- whether it be a ball cap with a sombrero -- then I don't think anyone else can tell them it wouldn't satisfy said person. It just seems dismissive and insulting.

But that's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.


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Noted. It's plain you don't know me at all, or you would have never posted this.

Nothing I have ever posted has been dismissive or insulting in all the years I've been involved in this hobby, and that's been since 1996.

I AM all for constructive discussion, though, and will post my opinion, which is as good as the next members.

Comparing an off the shelf hat to a bespoke/custom can many times confuse more new buyers than help.

For example, Ride Guys comparison of this new reboot, an AB and an Penman was a true apples to apples comparison between bespoke hats.

We've spent literally years trying to help folks untangle these types of discussions, and we do our best to attempt to point this out before it happens again.

I will continue to do this as an administrator of this site.

Thank you for your post. Your opinion is always appreciated, as long as it is posted in an honest but polite way.

That's what make a discussions site work, but don't cross the line of insulting another member.

I take no offence to your last comment, as it is your honest opinion when you take my comment at face value.

It was never posted with that intent, though.

Regards! Michaelson

Understood.


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IndyFan89 wrote:I'll definitely post photos but now I have a new question; are there any tutorials on trimming the hat and how will I know if I need to trim it?


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Don't trim the hat. The original Raiders fedora was trimmed by Richard Swales in order to give it a dimensional cut (which is quite rare outside of Indy fedoras). The thinking was that the camera would be better able to pick up Harrison's face from the side if the brim was narrower there. The dimensional cut has since become a standard feature of any Indy hat and the Herbert Johnson reboots come with it standard.

Mulceber wrote:

IndyFan89 wrote:I'll definitely post photos but now I have a new question; are there any tutorials on trimming the hat and how will I know if I need to trim it?


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Don't trim the hat. The original Raiders fedora was trimmed by Richard Swales in order to give it a dimensional cut (which is quite rare outside of Indy fedoras). The thinking was that the camera would be better able to pick up Harrison's face from the side if the brim was narrower there. The dimensional cut has since become a standard feature of any Indy hat and the Herbert Johnson reboots come with it standard.

Ok whew...lol


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When I read "trim the hat" it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

IndyFan89 wrote:Ok whew...lol


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Sorry if that came across as harsh - I'd just hate to see someone potentially ruin a $450 hat right out of the box. The new poets all have the dimensional cut, so there's no need to do anything to them.

When I read "trim the hat" it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

As, I think you can tell by the tone of my last message, that was basically my reaction as well...

Mulceber wrote:

IndyFan89 wrote:Ok whew...lol


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Sorry if that came across as harsh - I'd just hate to see someone potentially ruin a $450 hat right out of the box. The new poets all have the dimensional cut, so there's no need to do anything to them.

When I read "trim the hat" it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

As, I think you can tell by the tone of my last message, that was basically my reaction as well...

I'm actually extremely relieved lol


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As far a trimming hats goes, I have done and often do it myself BUT - it comes after having learned the hard way. I probably ruined 3 nice hats in attempting it, one of them vintage: yes, horrible. But that was decades ago. Since then, I obtained some really low end hats and even some mid-range from thrift stores.

In brief (and do NOT try this unless you are willing to live with yourself after screwing up), I lay the hat as flat as possible on a board or other. A smooth board. I then, after having established chalk lines, cut very very slowly with an exacto knife. And I take off just slightly less than I want to. Sometimes water is involved, sometimes not.

Then, after the brim is cut (and totally dry if water was used) I sand down the edge (VERY careful to retain the 90 degree angle of edge to expanse) with 220 grit paper on down to 2000 grit paper.

My results over the last 10 years have been just great.

But at a cost.

Practice heavily on very low end hats or hats that are already permanently ruined for some reason.

Beyond the necessary skills required to properly trim the brim, another caution is that beyond the dimensional cut, the Indy brim is designed to BE wide. Many a member has trimmed as little as an 1/8" and have found the brim looks too small after.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I THINK I posted images correctly this time. But check this out - I have been asking somewhere on COW as to whether or not the AB Legacy Raiders is a direct stovepipe or not. No one responded which means folks either do not have that hat or are smug about having what feels like secrets or whatever. BUT - since having seen video of a new HJ pulled successfully over a Delk Raiders block, I looked back at an unbashed, new HJ - and yes, it turns out that, while it looks a lot like a stovepipe, it is not. Go ahead and line up parallel lines to either side and you will see a taper.

So yes, Steve Delk is a genius or HJ took a lead from his block. I don't care either way but simply my current conclusion. I do like the extra height on the HJ's though.

There are two shots here from the side, one from the front, HJ beaver

The block is tapered in the front and back only. The sides are straight. If not for the taper in f&b your hat would flare out when the center dent is bashed. Except for top hats, boaters, and a few western styles, I've never seen a block without some taper.

Sorry guys, just now getting back on to see what's going on. Let me address a few concerns or opinions. After spending three days putting up boards, shopping for gas/water/food, and securing houses for two families for this hurricane ,then to have a disabled family member pass, go and secure his remains so that he is covered for the storm without giving closure to the family and having that person who is betrothed to me beside themselves to the point of uselessness with grief and I decide to have a drink and take break and come on here(which is none of your business)... I severely doubt you would have had the stamina and composure to do I what I did BY MY SELF. To respond to another member here: stupid is what stupid does, would you like a box of chocolates ?? As far as an agenda... I have been passionate about Indiana Jones and the fedora since 2003 (however I've been a fan since day one in 1981), I've seen hat makers come and go and I have to say this.. I can name at least 4 current hat makers that have put their time in to make a reputation for themselves and to offer a quality hat to the public and I can not say that about the HJ Reboot. I want the next guy to have a fair shot and I don't want to take away from them but when Jack @HJ makes statements like he found the lost Raiders hat block in a closet, he has the factory ribbon (which he might, that is a possibility), and he has the original felt from 1980/81 ?? Really ?? Is this guy Moses, is he parting the red sea ?? I guess Richard Swayles was an idiot. These were all items of the original hat that the fans sought out and lamented over for years and Jack@HJ just found them ... ??? Again to those that have hats from Jack@HJ and are satisfied with the craftsmanship then god bless you, maybe you got a product that was correct. I am going to get permission from the gentleman that published the video because I wanted it a general video but he does have an authentic AB Steve Delk block, my agenda is debunk falsehoods. For those of you that want to contrive the video or my intentions I think you either have your hands in the cookie jar or need to keep drinking the Koolade.

I decide to have a drink and take break and come on here(which is none of your business)... I severely doubt you would have had the stamina and composure to do I what I did BY MY SELF

You decided to relax by returning to a tense argumentative thread? Interesting choice...

I have been passionate about Indiana Jones and the fedora since 2003

And I've been passionate about the Indy fedora since the late '90s. Who cares?

I can name at least 4 current hat makers that have put their time in to make a reputation for themselves and to offer a quality hat to the public and I can not say that about the HJ Reboot.

The head hatmaker at HJ personally joined the forum, reached out to the Indygear community, answered whatever questions we asked, and posted in the threads of other hatmakers complimenting their work...and you don't think he put time into making a reputation for himself? I'm sorry you didn't like the hat you got, but it doesn't warrant the slander you and others have been spreading.

Jack @HJ makes statements like he found the lost Raiders hat block in a closet

He actually said that it had been on loan to a hat factory from the mid '80s until that factory went belly up a few years ago.

he has the factory ribbon

Uh...why wouldn't he? If he's working at HJ, then he has access to HJ's records, which means he knows what company they bought ribbon from at the time.

and he has the original felt from 1980/81

...which he then color-matched so he could offer the original color.

If you're trying to cast doubt on his story, you're doing a REALLY bad job of it.

I guess Richard Swayles was an idiot.

No, Richard Swales and the staff at HJ saw themselves as the hatmakers to the British gentry and didn't give a rat's behind about Indiana Jones fans. There are plenty of stories from back in the '90s about Indy fans who visited HJ and were treated to barely suppressed eye rolls and rude customer service. Nobody's claiming Swales couldn't have done most of what Jack@HJ's done, they're claiming he didn't care to.

I recently received a sable rabbit felt Indy hat directly from on the HJ website. I am in NY and it arrived in 9 days. Great shape and fit. Front crown is 5 1/2 inches and brim close to 3 inch s. It's a great hat. I also have a Steve Delk CS fedora in Beaver and it's a great hat. I also have an Akubra Federation and it is great. I also have a Baron Hats Cliffhanger hat in Beaver. They are all different and I like that diversity but anyone I wear is an " Indy" hat and I get compliments on all of them. I just ordered a grey Clipper Indy hat directly from HJ. There is a place for each and luckily I enjoy them all.

Mulceber, I'm trying to keep this cool headed. You don't know what I'm talking about and/or can't relate and that's ok but you have a weak argument... we are talking about a.. " HAT " .. not people !! As much as we have a passion for certain things, humanity comes first, sorry if I have to remind you. If you can't handle it then you are a weaker person I guess. If you feel the need to pound your chest my phone # (561)313-2249. The video in question is John Penman of Penman Hats and he has possession of actual Steve Delk blocks, the HJ hat is made out of a cast from a Steve Delk Raiders block. Really tough week !! I hope everybody out there is ok and my sore tired family wants you to be ok to, we are all in this together.

Micstream, you're clearly going through a lot right now - why don't we table this discussion until the dust has settled. My condolences for your loss, and I hope the rest of your family is ok and has weathered the storm well.

I recently received a sable rabbit felt Indy hat directly from on the HJ website. I am in NY and it arrived in 9 days. Great shape and fit. Front crown is 5 1/2 inches and brim close to 3 inch s. It's a great hat. I also have a Steve Delk CS fedora in Beaver and it's a great hat. I also have an Akubra Federation and it is great. I also have a Baron Hats Cliffhanger hat in Beaver. They are all different and I like that diversity but anyone I wear is an " Indy" hat and I get compliments on all of them. I just ordered a grey Clipper Indy hat directly from HJ. There is a place for each and luckily I enjoy them all.

Glad you're enjoying it (not to mention the other three) and congrats on your second post. Got any pics?