Club Obi Wan

That's not the original poster art...

As a little side note, while in LA, actually Pasadena, I had to go into an Apple store for something. Anyhoo, I got into a conversation about the Bradbury Building(It seems no one in downtown L.A. knew what I was talking about...It's the building at the end of Bladerunner) with one of the clerks there and the subject of Mr. Ford came up, Harrison Ford. Ford was in the store himself for something a week before I was, so I asked the guy how tall was Ford?

The guy responded, He's taller than you(I am 6'). So I immediately thought of Club Obi Wan and how more than several threads debated his height, it seems a lot of guys want Ford to be a 5'10" or something????

Well, based on a guy who actually saw him, he (Ford) is over 6'. Of course, it's just his word, but I can't see him lying.

Back to our regularly scheduled program

I dunno HSJ, take a look at this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... w&dur=2605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Craig is listed as a firm 5' 10" (If Craig were 6' 1", I don't think he would lie and say he was only 5' 10", that's not how guys work..?

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/WiNyKFsE ... ia+LaBeouf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shia is listed at 5' 9 1/2"

Seems that back in the day, Noel Howard measured Ford in his sock feet at 5' 9 1/2"
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=44630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have a look at Raiders, and both Molina and JRD are about the same height as Ford.

Where do the facts seem to lead? I think what could be at work is a bit of psychology? Our screen heros and others who are looked up to, still need to be larger than life, no? Yet you look at the specs and all seem mostly ordinary....5' 9 1/2" ~ 5'10" which ever you prefer, 58 cm, 10 1/2......

Texan Scott wrote:I dunno HSJ, take a look at this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... w&dur=2605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Craig is listed as a firm 5' 10" (If Craig were 6' 1", I don't think he would lie and say he was only 5' 10", that's not how guys work..?

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/WiNyKFsE ... ia+LaBeouf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shia is listed at 5' 9 1/2"

Seems that back in the day, Noel Howard measured Ford in his sock feet at 5' 9 1/2"
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=44630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have a look at Raiders, and both Molina and JRD are about the same height as Ford.

Where do the facts seem to lead? I think what could be at work is a bit of psychology? Our screen heros and others who are looked up to, still need to be larger than life, no? Yet you look at the specs and all seem mostly ordinary....5' 9 1/2" ~ 5'10" which ever you prefer, 58 cm, 10 1/2......

Not to stray off topic again but, I really can't understand this hang up with pictures as gospel around here ! As a screen prop collector, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Props never look like they do in person as they do on screen...never.Having said that, it can also apply to actors. I have had the pleasure of meeting a few, who look tall on screen but were...short.

I do think psychology has a bit of play here, in that our members who think they are Ford, and are 5'10" or whatever, want Ford to be the same!!LOL! I don't say that to be nasty, just as an observer of the countless post on the subject. Like I said I am 6' and the clerk saw and was up close with Ford and said he was a taller guy than me.

Personally, I really couldn't care less, and asked the guy in jest almost!

Yes, the jacket I am wearing is the beautiful shrunken lamb from Wested.

Well said dude. I know were you are comming. I couldn't agree more.

...hangups, who brought it up?

I'm about he last one around here that could lay any claim as Indian Bones. I never could pull the look off so I never worried about it. I'd just hoped to dispell the rumors in that other thread. To me, if the first photo with Craig doesn't nail it, nothing else will. To me, that is about as clear as it gets. If a man is 5'10" -ok, if he's 6'1" - ok. It doesn't make him any more of less of man in my mind, I just wish people would be honest about it! Sort of like a high school football roster, where the guys are usually 20-30 lbs. larger than they are and a few inches taller. Pretty soon, you look around and by golly they're 10 ft. tall and bullet proof too.

Just spent some serious time reading through this thread.
Soo much info in here and all over the site. As per Holts suggestion I came here looking at Texan scott's dark goat hero jacket and his along with everyone elses photos have sold me on the Wested Hero (although the wings price right now is really really tempting) one thing I'm still unsure of is with the way the jacket hangs off the shoulder how do you properly measure for sleeve length? Is it normal shoulder to knuckle, or do i have to knock off some inches to account for the overhang? Also with an exact chest measurement of 44 what do you guys suggest ordering?

I came seeking answers but here I am with more questions than when I arrived.

Hobbs has it now, so maybe he can apply some elbow grease to the "break in."

I'm supposed to get it in the mail tomorrow so I'll let you know!

44. Shoulder to the knuckle...take back one kadam...

Conservatively, 1/2 to 1 inch. 1/2 to be on the safe side, I'd say. The answer is nebulous because it depends on how wide your shoulders are and what size you order.

WhipDude wrote:I think that's wonderful that Wested is going to do this, but....

I hate to be the one to point things out like this. A lot of people are excited but I can't get past the fact that isn't going to fix their other issues most likely. Are they going to follow the pattern and not send so many variations for once? Are orders going to be filled correctly? How about QC and customer service?

I know nobody can answer this right now, but I'm very hesitant. Especially with a price like that, I expect everything to go smoothly like you'd get with Flightsuits or Tony.

Not bashing or starting a war, just sayin'.

...or Bill Kelso.

Just ordered a jacket after reading through this thread, should be here this week.

Thanks for all the info, this whole thread was a huge help in making sure I order the right kind of jacket!

Congrats!
You're gonna love it!

Don't forget to post pics when it arrives.

Did the creation of the HERO jacket close the accuracy gap between the Wested offerings and the Bill Kelso relic hunter? I've got to choose one over the other and am frankly at a standstill because I'm not seeing any direct comparisons between the two. (I used the search function quite a few times, using quite a few phrases and all the threads seem to deal with the two separately, with no real comparisons.)

Thanks!

Indyfan71

(Edit: Several hours later, I see a post right near mine comparing the two. Don't know how I missed that. Apologies.)

Not necessarily. Both the BK jackets and Wested Hero offerings closed the "SA" gap between the film prop and the accuracy of reproduction jackets as they existed. You can throw "competition" and any other argument into the mix, but ultimately, these offerings are each vendor's attempt at making a better, more SA product to fans. If I am understanding it right, Wested would not necessarily have to make "Indy" jackets, due to his ties with the film and TV industry, etc., as well as other repro. sales.

Actually, any "comparison" inevitable but in certain ways, unfair, because you are holding up a mid-range jacket to a high end jacket. We do so because these are both customized and in essence, made to order. In order to have an "overkill" jacket, you would need to pay "overkill" prices. This is what I touched upon in my evaluation of the RH jacket, in asking the question: is the extra 15% or so worth the price? Only the individual can answer that question on a per individual basis.

I was looking back through old shots when I stumbled onto this one:

Take a look at that left sleeve, especially how "crusty" the upper left sleeve looks:
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm590527232/tt0082971" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We always wondered why we never could get the same type of texture from any other leather source, past or present? Here are the reason(s):

PETER wrote:LETS BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS.
I MADE THE ORIGINAL RAIDERS JACKETS. I BOUGHT THE SKINS AS NEW ZEALAND LAMB IN CRUST FROM JIM HUME (FELLMONGERS) IN SCOTLAND. I SENT THE SKINS TO MR JEFF CLARK OF TURN LEATHERS TANNERY AT TODMORDEN IN YORKSHIRE. THEY CONTRACT TANNED THE SKIN TO MY SPECIFICATION WHICH WAS A WORN LOOK FINISH.
THE RIB MARKS ,TICK MARKS AND MACHINE SKINNING STRETCH MARKS ARE TYPICAL OF NEWZEALAND AND AUSTRALIAN SKINS AND WERE ALL PUT INTO THE JACKETS TO ADD CHARACTOR WHICH IS WHAT YOU SEE.
IT WAS NOT SHRUNKEN LAMB. I HAD NEVER HEARD OF SHRUNKEN LAMB UNTIL RECENTLY AND JEF CLARKE IN 1980 WOULD HAVE SCRATCHED HIS HEAD AS HE ONLY TANNED IN THE TRADIONAL WAY OF PEGGING OUT TO DRY NATURALLY WHICH PRODUCED A FIRM SKIN TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO MODERN TANNING SYSYTEMS WHICH CAN CREATE BEAUTIFUL VARIATIES YOU CAN GET NOW.
I DONT USUALLY QUOTE NAMES BUT FACTS ARE FACTS.
CHEERS
PETER

PETER wrote:I know l dont usually but it seemed the thing to do and stop all the speculation.
The crust cost about $1 a foot and 50c per foot to contract tan. total $1.50
in those days. About 75p in English.
Modern tanning systems cannot make leather like that, it was tanned in vast wooden drums and then pegged out on wooden frames to dry naturally before pigmentation and pressing but a jacket made from it could stand in a corner by itself. which is why the film jackets were put into old tumble dryers with no heat and a few large pebbles to soften and rough up a bit.
I have been experimenting to recreate the effect and the washed lamb is close but still too soft. Itailians only know soft.We are getting there though
Sorry, Michaelson. my manners are terrible 'HAPPY NEW YEAR' to you and all.
Cheers
Peter

The reason why we could never find the right leather is that it does not exist anymore...in exactly that type and texture.

Interesting TS. I imagine Peter gets tired having to re-explain and defend himself all the time. I ordered a Hero at the beginning of the month in shrunken lamb about 5 days before he removed the option from his site again. I guess it is hard to get large enough skins of quality. His shrunken lamb offering was supposed to be a veg tan processed leather making it stiffer initially vs. modern chrome tanning right? Less spongy too? Isn't shrunken lamb supposed to be drummed in a washer to accentuate the grain effect after tanning where the crispe option is treated with enzymes and pH to "cellularize" the grain yielding that more gator skin look? I would think using ribby sheep skins from NZ with a vegetable tanning process, aniline dyed and drummed afterward would allow Peter to replicate the leather style that he used back then pretty well. I am just glad to be getting another jacket from him after my old Wested goat was left in a hotel closet a few years ago. I've missed it ever since.

I think the process as you described could most likely keep us in the ballgame. It apparently was a very rustic leather. Over the years, we have gotten fairly close with some leathers, while others just struck a cord with some, and became popular. Interesting that the answer to certain jacket woes has been known for quite some time. As you read through that thread, it is an interesting discussion about SL.

I may have missed it in this huge thread...did anyone tell the difference between the Standard Indy Hero and the Special Indy Hero with Crisp, etc?

I want to order striated lamb. The web site says it is an option, but the option is not on the option list. Just says "Lamb". How does that work?

And finally, I want this to be med. weight at most. Definately NOT heavy like cow or goat. (similar to the latest Todds)

And size? The TODDS Large fits perfectly. So 23" back, size 40 with 23.5" sleeves??? Or do you subtract because it hangs off the shoulder?

Is there something about size considerations that I need to know about ordering from a UK company from the US?

So, aside from size considerations, will some of you please tell me how to go about putting in a proper order, please ?

Sure, Ray. Crispe lamb has its own ordering 'sub-menu' and the grain of it is different from the smooth lamb that we know from dept. stores and other Indy jackets that we ordered form the past. When you go to the "Standard Indy Hero" sub-menu, you get other choices of leather. The Hero in Crispe lamb and the shrunken lamb that they discontinued were basically, "Special Order" leathers, higher priced, since they were veg. tanned, etc., and this accounts for the price difference.

If you order the "Standard Hero" jacket, you have serveral other choices of leathers. The lambskin would be smooth like any other, and not striated.

They do not offer "striated lamb" at this time, unless I've seriously missed it on their site?

Texan Scott wrote:Sure, Ray. Crispe lamb has its own ordering 'sub-menu' and the grain of it is different from the smooth lamb that we know from dept. stores and other Indy jackets that we ordered form the past. When you go to the "Standard Indy Hero" sub-menu, you get other choices of leather. The Hero in Crispe lamb and the shrunken lamb that they discontinued were basically, "Special Order" leathers, higher priced, since they were veg. tanned, etc., and this accounts for the price difference.

If you order the "Standard Hero" jacket, you have serveral other choices of leathers. The lambskin would be smooth like any other, and not striated.

They do not offer "striated lamb" at this time, unless I've seriously missed it on their site?

This is what confused me...and still does:

http://www.wested.com/hero-jacket-64-c.asp

I guess their web site could be out of date. Notice the Standard Hero has a picture of what I think is striated lamb. But, no mention of it.

I may know where the confusion is:

"A veg tanned shrunken lamb with striation (color no consistant)"

Apparently, shrunken lamb has striations, but it has been discontinued.

The leather that Wested calls, "Crisp" is what TN called "shrunken lamb".

........

Yeah veg tanned shrunken lamb had its own page like the crispe and standard hero do and the link was in between the crispe and standard hero links on the hero page. I think I got the last jacket made with veg tanned shrunken lamb because the option was removed right after I got the "processing" update from Wested. I ordered a 26" back and 26 1/2" sleeves and may have used up the last of any pieces that were large enough to make a jacket with. I know the size of the shrunken lamb hides were an issue the with the first batch. I would call and see if they are going to get more to offer. It is great leather I think and the best option they have offered. It is not plasticy like some pictures have made it look. The shine drops off rapidly and it breaks in and naturally ages real well.

I consider myself extra lucky, because i just received my shrunken lamb hero yesterday. I too noticed that the SL is gone from the site. I am beyond impressed with this hide...no platicky or stiff areas, in fact it is very supple. Hopefully Peter gets more of this stuff in gotta get the wifey to take some pics today, so stand by gents!

Okay, here it is!!! Wested Hero, size 44. Shrunken lamb (apparenlty one of the last ones?) Sleeve 23.5, back 24.5. Fits like a dream, although I was a little nervous since the measurments seemed a little small. I based them off of my LC in washed goat, knowing full well the cuts are different. The hide is very supple, and I will not be distressing it in any unnatural way It has more 'heft' than I was expecting. It is thin, but has a certain density to it. To my eyes, it looks like a cross between the first batch of SL and the crinkly, mixed color look of the jacket that CRB and Whiskeyman have. I could not be happier with it. The collar needs a little training, but other than that, it more than satisfies my Raiders jacket 'itch'. Here's some pics,
thanks for looking guys
[/img]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding...We have a WINNER!
That looks Great. And it seems to fit you just right. That jacket will just get better and better with time

That is a great looking Raiders jacket. Has that rustic look that was so much a part of the original. Seems to drape well, too! Got yourself a winner there!

Nice! How tall are you?

Thanks guys!! Couldn't be happier with it!! Holt, I'm 5'11. also, my LC measures 26.5 in back, so knowing this will hang off the shoulder more, i ordered it shorter.

Wow! Beautiful Jacket, TenuredProfessor!

Looking good TP! You wear that hat well too. Any tips for training the collar? Mine still stand up fairly erect like yours. I was trying to put some fold in there but the collar stand (I think that is what it is called) seems fairly thick where it attaches to the front panels.

Best example of Wested's shrunken lamb I've seen yet. I hope they can source more leather close to this.

Great jacket!

Much appreciated guys! Loving this thing!! @ Fletch...to relax your collar, you're gonna need some ball bearings, and about ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker state... Or just the occasional kneading Let's see yours!!!!

TenuredProfessor wrote:Much appreciated guys! Loving this thing!! @ Fletch...to relax your collar, you're gonna need some ball bearings, and about ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker state... Or just the occasional kneading Let's see yours!!!!

LOL cracked me up. My signature for the last 10 years on messenger has been "Awww, come on guys, it's so simple maybe you need a refresher course! Heyaaah! It's all ball bearings nowadays!" That was back when Chevy Chase was funny I don't have any other indy gear except a new magnoli bag and some gloves but I will get a few cell snap shots of me just in my normal clothes with the jacket and throw them up on here. (I repurposed my adventure built beaver raiders with a telescoping crown a couple years ago because I don't pull of the hat like you do) It is great leather for sure. More substantial than I expected for lamb and I am already getting lightening of color on the pockets and edges though I don't think it will show up on camera. Just an indication that it is going to age real well. I treated it with Lexol which darkened it for about half a day when I first got it. It went right back to its original color as I hoped and it knocked the shine down a bit. I have just been wearing it ever since. YOU actually may have received the last jacket made in shrunken lamb as you received yours about a week after mine

Yep have to admit that shrunken lamb looks nicer than the one I had - like a cross between the 1st and 2nd batches as you say.

I really like the cut on it - looks more LC than Raiders to me, but that wouldn't bother me at all as the jacket looks fantastic in its own right !

...babe! I got you, babe!...

I swear, if I wake up to that song one more time...

Back to SL Talk! As if I really needed one, there was what appeared to be the last SL Hero in Wested's Clearance section. I'd read the mixed reviews, but curiosity killed the cat, so I sprung for it. Normally, smooth grain is preferred, but I have been pleasantly surprised. This skin is an ugly duckling right out of the womb, but it grows on you, and is breaking in nicely. I've often thought that shipping must be a traumatic experience for a leather jacket, as it looks as though it has been through the worst kind of mis-adventure right out of the box or package, in this case. Just happy to finally be united with its owner, it quickly assumes the role. This leather is entirely different from the standard issue, smooth lambskin we have been accustomed to, rustic, tougher looking hide. In terms of its overall appearance, texture and tanning method, this could be the closest Wested has ever been to accurately reproducing the same type of leather used for the original jacket as seen in Raiders.

Again, here is a video on the veg tanning process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k6LTKG9E6c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Without further dew on the grass, I'll post pics as soon as humanly possible....

Best description of Wested's SL I've read so far! Spot on!

Thanks, Whiskeyman! Had to do some yardwork today, so in the midst of it, I snapped a few photos of this interesting leather. didn't have full sun today, but maybe you can get a better idea with these.


Texture of the leather, right sleeve...


Not exactly full sun. The first two photos are a better indication of the color...

Yikes! I love my Indy jackets as much as the next guy....but that video on tanning is almost enough to get you thinking about becoming a vegetarian

Nasty process. I believe that is one of the reasons why it has since been removed from these shores, at least on a mass production basis, has it not?

Hey everyone, I just received my hero in the soft goat. It has some pretty deep "wrinkles", for lack of a better term, from the shipping trip. Does any one know if those wrinkles will relax on their on after being hung up or is there something that I should or could do to help the process along. Thanks
Phil

wear it

Nobody wrote:Hey everyone, I just received my hero in the soft goat. It has some pretty deep "wrinkles", for lack of a better term, from the shipping trip. Does any one know if those wrinkles will relax on their on after being hung up or is there something that I should or could do to help the process along. Thanks
Phil

Yep, wear it!
When I first got my soft goat hero, I thought the name was misleading as it was anything but 'soft'.
It could almost stand up by itself when new and had a very waxy feel.
After living in it for almost a year, it has softened up nicely and drapes very well.

Am I to understand that Wested is no longer offering the Hero in shrunken lambskin? I've noticed that it's not offered on the site anymore.... and what type of hide is the predistressed hide? It doesn't state....

Indiana Croft wrote:Sorry for the delay.

My Hero came on Monday and here it is Thursday and I just this AM got to take pics.

But first, a big thank you to Gorak, for if it wasn't for your pic's and thoughts on this jacket I might have not pulled the trigger , but man am I sooooo glad I did.

In a word. Perfect. Perfect color, Perfect fit, perfect sleeves (finally) Perfect weight, and last but not least, just plain Perfect. Mesah happy.
As soon as I put it on and saw how well it fit, out came the spary bottle, it needed some carachter. Balled it up and left over night. Wore it every chance I got.
Asked for light weight and it is, Dark brown lambskin, a shade lighter than my Todds. Size 40 w/23"sleeves, I sent pics of me wearing my Todds to Gemma and she showed them to Peter who must have taken the 23" and subtracted about 3/4 of an inch, which resulted in perfection (my Todds is just a tad short), 23" back panel.
Here're the pic's. And for anyine thinking about, do it.












Thanks again Gorak, Croft

I'm just getting through this entire thread for the first time, lol That looks great. I especially like that last pic. The outfit looks natural on you...like you wear it all the time. But I warn you...if you buy Aldens to go with it, you'll never want to wear other shoes again.

jnicktem wrote:Not the best pics, but here are a couple of pics of my Wested Hero in Shrunken Lamb. This jacket has been completely soaked several times, and has developed some great character and has formed well to my body.



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/j ... G_7296.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/j ... G_7297.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, man. Great fit!

Bdgsi11 wrote:Here's two more shots with some gear thrown together. Sorry about the poor image quality.

As I go through this thread I have noticed that some of these HERO jackets have a small looking collar and others look like Elvis would have loved it (much wider).

Can someone enlighten me as to why I see this if they are all the same HERO pattern accepting minor fit adjustments and leather choice?


Thanks

BTW, that looks just right on you =)

whiskyman wrote:Mine's also generally a kind of authentic brown, albeit a richer version (to my eyes), with colour variations.
This is a fairly accurate pic of the colour

Did you close your Photobucket account? All your pics and that vid (I really want to see) are gone.