Club Obi Wan

baddates1 wrote:If we look closely in certain lighting, we do see what appears to be a groove, or what's probably a stitch-line below the top of the holster. This is what led me to believe it has the spring break in it, and as The Man in the Hat just posted, was a WWII item.

I find it interesting on his holster it's not elastic, but a lighter brown leather. Honestly could probably make both versions and they'd be just as accurate until there's more revealed footage in the future...

There very likely isn’t any more footage “about to be released though” right? This took 40 years… and they’ve stopped Indy.. So, the idea that we’ll get more? Just isn’t at all likely..

We have to be realistic about that, at least.. this is ALL we’ll have.. they waited for forty years to get this out there at all..

Unless one of us wants to raid the lucasfilm archive for the unused and unedited footage? lol…


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The Man with the Hat wrote:My guess is that the holster used in the movie had a leather strap and not elastic because I think it would've been unlikely that the elastic was brown. It appears that the most common elastic on these types of shoulder holsters was white.

And yeah, but it’s very likely that this is a very old and used stunt piece or piece that was found, which means there’s a fair chance that it was stained or dirty or used and had greyed a fair bit too.. or darkened to a touch browner.. Which is what I’m seeing in the pics, mostly an off white looking colour, just a touch darker than the shirt and not as dark as the leather brown…


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It appears to me that the straps are the same color as the holster - brown. Elastic seems more 1960's James Bond than 1940's Indiana Jones. They seemed pretty selective about other costume details I don't think they would just throw whatever they had on but would've looked for the right piece.

The Man with the Hat wrote:

It appears to me that the straps are the same color as the holster - brown. Elastic seems more 1960's James Bond than 1940's Indiana Jones. They seemed pretty selective about other costume details I don't think they would just throw whatever they had on but would've looked for the right piece.

<looks at the rest of Indy’s gear>

Umm, they seem to have literally thrown whatever they had onto him, whatever fitted the image they initially had.. I wouldn’t expect a sudden drive to find a holster that’s period exact in a production that 1) was done on the cheap, 2) hasn’t paid special attention to other items used already, and 3) was sourcing an item that wouldn’t be seen on screen at all, for forty years..

I agree, elastic isn’t period accurate, but, they didn’t care.. it wouldn’t be seen, and they weren’t overly bothered.. more to the point, Indy had to fight in it, so using something more flexible and comfortable would have made the most sense..

But I also do agree, the leather looks better, and will hold up well, so if you’re a more pure line Indy fan? It would notch those arrows for you to fire too.. I just don’t think that’s what I see on the (admittedly bad) pics we have available..

All of this is essentially leading us to the end line, which is

“Do what you wanna do, since it’s your Indy cosplay”.. Same as it ever was.. lol..


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I think the arm strap is brown leather at each end with a small section of grey elasticated webbing in the middle which is what we're glimpsing around Ford's right arm between the collar and armpit (as two different colours of elastic on the same strap seems less likely). That small section makes it easier to take off and put on and gives some 'action flex' when moving. Most arm straps are removable so period holster and rig with later arm strap (or modified original) is also possible.

It manages to look like several different possible types of holster in the space of a couple of seconds which is impressive in itself!

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:43 am
There very likely isn’t any more footage “about to be released though” right? This took 40 years… and they’ve stopped Indy.. So, the idea that we’ll get more? Just isn’t at all likely..

We have to be realistic about that, at least.. this is ALL we’ll have.. they waited for forty years to get this out there at all..

Unless one of us wants to raid the lucasfilm archive for the unused and unedited footage? lol…


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How 'bout a little optimism, huh?

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:43 amThere very likely isn’t any more footage “about to be released though” right? This took 40 years… and they’ve stopped Indy.. So, the idea that we’ll get more? Just isn’t at all likely..

I've actually made an inquiry through a friend of a friend, so fingers crossed. But more likely than not, this will be all we can get.

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:43 am

baddates1 wrote:If we look closely in certain lighting, we do see what appears to be a groove, or what's probably a stitch-line below the top of the holster. This is what led me to believe it has the spring break in it, and as The Man in the Hat just posted, was a WWII item.

I find it interesting on his holster it's not elastic, but a lighter brown leather. Honestly could probably make both versions and they'd be just as accurate until there's more revealed footage in the future...

There very likely isn’t any more footage “about to be released though” right? This took 40 years… and they’ve stopped Indy.. So, the idea that we’ll get more? Just isn’t at all likely..

We have to be realistic about that, at least.. this is ALL we’ll have.. they waited for forty years to get this out there at all..

Unless one of us wants to raid the lucasfilm archive for the unused and unedited footage? lol…


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C'mon, look at the glass as half-full! There's alwaaaaays a possibility...



Hey, this guy can dream right?

baddates1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:35 pm
C'mon, look at the glass as half-full! There's alwaaaaays a possibility...



Hey, this guy can dream right?

I'm with ya, man. Look how much data has been compiled and how many details have been refined over the years due to either pure luck or gearhead diligence. This is a few seconds of footage edited for a doc. It's likely there's more footage on either side of these few seconds, BTS photos that haven't surfaced, or maybe even production intel that may offer more detail. I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but there's always a chance now that we know what we're looking for.

Indy never gives up, so why should we?!

baddates1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:35 pm

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:43 am

baddates1 wrote:If we look closely in certain lighting, we do see what appears to be a groove, or what's probably a stitch-line below the top of the holster. This is what led me to believe it has the spring break in it, and as The Man in the Hat just posted, was a WWII item.

I find it interesting on his holster it's not elastic, but a lighter brown leather. Honestly could probably make both versions and they'd be just as accurate until there's more revealed footage in the future...

There very likely isn’t any more footage “about to be released though” right? This took 40 years… and they’ve stopped Indy.. So, the idea that we’ll get more? Just isn’t at all likely..

We have to be realistic about that, at least.. this is ALL we’ll have.. they waited for forty years to get this out there at all..

Unless one of us wants to raid the lucasfilm archive for the unused and unedited footage? lol…


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C'mon, look at the glass as half-full! There's alwaaaaays a possibility...



Hey, this guy can dream right?

Guilty as charged on that..

Heheh...I'm English, and we're stuck in perpetual pessimism. (I also want to punch people who give perpetual high fives like it's the 1980's and they're Tom Cruise playing volleyball, but that, I suspect might just be ME... )

I think Mike's lead sounds interesting, and something might come from that, but Lucasfilm hasn't cared much about releasing even this...So, nah, not optimistic about this one. The people who we could have reached about this, are old or gone too...So the chances are low and lowering...But I hope Mike finds something! I'd like more pics...Just, realistic about our chances of getting them..

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:52 am Umm, they seem to have literally thrown whatever they had onto him, whatever fitted the image they initially had...

Nearly everything about the costume is custom made. That leads me to believe that everyone was very selective about what they chose to outfit Indy with. They could have picked out everything right off the rack so to speak but they didn't.

hat-customized
jacket-custom made-they could have used an A-2
shirt-custom made-they could have used a US Navy or Army khaki shirt
trousers-custom made-they could have used officer "pinks"
revolver holster-custom made-they could have used a military issue holster
shoulder bag-customized



It's very possible that the shoulder holster did have a shoulder strap that consisted of a mix of elastic and leather. It's really difficult to tell from the photos available. It's entirely possible that they custom made the shoulder holster just like the revolver holster. Clearly from makeitjones, a qualified leatherworker would have little problem creating something in a short amount of time.

For those who are looking for functionality, I agree that the elastic might have some advantages.

Just for reference, shoulder holsters up to the 1950's were often modeled after western holsters that typically were all leather like this.

Yeah, that's the point though...All of the items you list are essential to the character, and would be on screen the entire film....And they used custom items for Ford to work into his own "thing"....The holster under his arm, in one scene, and hidden by his jacket for all of it, isn't quite the same thing, and wouldn't have needed any of the attention to detail or cost that they used with the on screen items...(And again, as you point out, since most of his gear is custom, we could perhaps expect a customised holster too? One made for comfort, over period-accuracy, no?)

That's what I'm saying, entirely...We should look at the period accurate designs, and start there, but be more than aware that given the customisation of ALL of Indy's gear, over "period accuracy" at times too, there's a very strong chance that they didn't just take a 1930's holster and use it as is....There's a larger chance that they changed a lot of it to work into what they needed for the scene (movement and ability to fight in it coupled with it not showing)

So, we should start with the basic idea, and assume that they'd altered it or changed it to work into what was needed in the scene....Not just gone with the accurate for the era holster..

I agree that they probably didn't use an existing, period holster. Anyone looking for "the exact" holster that they used probably isn't going to find it because it probably doesn't exist. I have seen a number of shoulder holsters for the 1911 .45 which is similar in size and shape to the Browning Hi-power, based on the old western style holsters. It's a good place to start and use as a "basis of design". As some others have discovered, police or detective holsters are another option to pattern an Indy style shoulder holster off of.

Yeah, I suspect this will be one of the "close is good enough" items in Indy's wardrobe, but we DO have a LOT of close enoughs, and those are a great start point. Barring a photo of the right side of Ford's body, IN the scene, WITHOUT the jacket? We're not going to get much further for the exact item....

But we have a lot to go on and that seems to indicate comfort and the ability to hide the holster, over any other considerations....I reckon Makeitjones has the right ideas, and I asked him to make one for me, which I suspect will be perfect (or as close as)...So I'll post pics once it arrives! (He said he was likely to have it started on the weekend coming up)

Even his prototype looks like a "close enough". Maybe in another 40 years another never-before-seen, better resolution photo will show up!

The Man with the Hat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:00 pm Even his prototype looks like a "close enough". Maybe in another 40 years another never-before-seen, better resolution photo will show up!

Legit.

I think both versions have something to appeal too....I believe the dog-ear type is most reliable for daily use, and the flat type for the accuracy, but with either you're getting a rather cool, extremely hidden Indy cosplay boost...Let's be honest, no one except "us" will ever know about this, or care, or notice if we do it.....

Perfect

I agree. No one but us will know of care. It's remarkable that we now know that there was a shoulder holster. The idea that the Hi-power was just in his shoulder bag or a coat pocket never seemed right to me. I'm glad that they DID make the effort to outfit Indy with a legitimate means of carrying the Browning, even if it was never really seen. Kind of like his gloves, it's too bad they never used it again in another movie. A shoulder holster to conceal his sidearm might have made a lot of sense in Indy 5 during the 1960's.

Also, entirely agreed....It's also, clearly something that Indy had found in Temple to be a problem... So we can guess he decided to carry two here because of the fumble on the way to Delhi...Of course, none of that was a factor while making Raiders, but it's fun to consider now...

I think, for the era, two guns makes all the sense in the world, but we can also see that by Crusade, they'd decided he was to be a little more academic than initially planned perhaps? Or more so in the story, so they didn't really add to his arsenal there...It's a shame I think..Doing what he was doing, he'd have had a definite use for a shoulder holster and a gun that could be hidden or relied on for more solid shooting...So, it really DOES fit...Just, maybe they had a rethink....

I still imagine the initial idea, in Raiders, at least, was to come closer to the Steranko drawings, with Indy being more of a gunman/fighter, clearly, but that they found the humour and intelligence to be a stronger play and kept it simple to allow Ford to shine, like he does in Temple...But who knows eh?

The gloves are another example of the mindset they had during the production of Raiders. Gloves were never in the original outfit, but Ford needed a pair when on the ropes dropping into the Well of Souls. He grabbed a pair off a grip who was working set pieces and VIOLA! Indy had gloves.

The studio supplier at the time was supplying Wells Lamont and Midwest work gloves to the production, so that’s why either can work in outfit use.

The whole affair was ‘run and gun’. No rules.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:10 pm The gloves are another example of the mindset they had during the production of Raiders. Gloves were never in the original outfit, but Ford needed a pair when on the ropes dropping into the Well of Souls. He grabbed a pair off a grip who was working set pieces and VIOLA! Indy had gloves.

The studio supplier at the time was supplying Wells Lamont and Midwest work gloves to the production, so that’s why either can work in outfit use.

The whole affair was ‘run and gun’. No rules.

Regards! Michaelson

That is such a cool tidbit of info, I never knew it!

I was using the same supplier at the time.

Regards! M

bearbeast wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:50 pmThat is such a cool tidbit of info, I never knew it!

I was going to be a wise--- and say "go look at the main site!" Glad I didn't. How do we not have that up?! Funny, I guess all the years of us talking about it, I assumed it was.

Time to get that fixed. I'll add it to the list.

Mike wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:55 pm

bearbeast wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:50 pmThat is such a cool tidbit of info, I never knew it!

I was going to be a wise--- and say "go look at the main site!" Glad I didn't. How do we not have that up?! Funny, I guess all the years of us talking about it, I assumed it was.

Time to get that fixed. I'll add it to the list.

While at it, can you fix that bit about the Bapty barrel? From the auction photos, you could see the serial numbers all matched, so the barrel was original to the gun, not one later swapped on…

Mike wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:55 pm

bearbeast wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 9:50 pmThat is such a cool tidbit of info, I never knew it!

I was going to be a wise--- and say "go look at the main site!" Glad I didn't. How do we not have that up?! Funny, I guess all the years of us talking about it, I assumed it was.

Time to get that fixed. I'll add it to the list.

I saw my friend Adam had taken the prototype of the ones being made by MakeitJones and his looks superb. Mine will apparently be made sometime just before the New Year, so should be sent out and in Japan sometime in early January? I'll post pics when it arrives of course! I suspect the setup being used is as close as we'll get to what they used on the film too! Can't wait to see how it works under the jacket!

As promised, I was sent the shoulder holster (type 1) by David over at makeitjones.co.uk and this is it! Amazing work done by David, I think he got as close as we’re going to get from the video we have finally, and this does seem to work as well as it did in the film at hiding the Browning when in the jacket.. you can see only a touch of the handle showing, if that.. well done balance act that..

The holster itself is amazing, perfect size for the Browning, obviously (mine isn’t a functioning gun, but a model gun made here in Japan) and holds it firmly.. I don’t think it’d come loose at all, maybe if I was fully upside down, but barring that, no, it’s not flying out..

I may wet mold it, but honestly, it holds shape well enough with just the gun sitting in it, so may not be needed at all..

The elastic on the right shoulder is comfortable and allows easy movement, and punching, without getting in the way at all, something I’ve said all along, I think they wanted in the film.. (over accuracy or look, since they weren’t going to show the holster at all)

I’ve also made a video on YouTube detailing the holster a little better, so feel free to watch and comment over there too!

Here’s the link for that..

https://youtu.be/u1GCAI2175s?si=a1y0ifwsQYZ4JgrO

And I’ll upload the photos one by one here, since I can’t add more than one at a time..


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The back view showing the set up we went with for the type 1


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Does the job more than well enough.. superb work on this by David..


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Punching twist to help show what I think we can see in Ford when he’s using it too


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Gun sits tight in the holster with no problem at all..


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And with the jacket zipped a little, the entire holster is cleared, with only a touch of the gun butt being visible if you KNOW what you’re looking for there..


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I’d absolutely recommend David’s work to anyone seeking one of these..

Wade Egan also, is working on a design and Adam Karolian has one with two versions too, I believe!


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Looks great, fifthchamber! Your other gear is awesome too.

Cheers,
Bear

I just got a chance to watch that video, well done fifthchamber. Shows the styling and movement with it very nicely.
David did and excellent job on that holster considering what little info we have on it. so big round of for MakeItJones!

Dalexs

Gorgeous rig! Cant wait to watch the youtube vid!

Yes! I've got several versions available depending on your taste, and I picked up a vintage holster that I am going to draw from (pun intended) on a different strap design

Adam, I think, given the lack of clear and concise information on the design of the actual rig used, that having more selections and variations and choice, all following the basic idea, really helps us all out more, since it gives everyone the ability to choose a holster that they can use and adapt for their own body...

The more the merrier, for this, since we haven't got a "perfect ideal" at all...(Haha...Much like the jackets actually....Oh, and the hats....Oh..And the......LMAO...You get the picture..)

Dalexs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:49 am I just got a chance to watch that video, well done fifthchamber. Shows the styling and movement with it very nicely.
David did and excellent job on that holster considering what little info we have on it. so big round of for MakeItJones!

Dalexs

Thanks Dalexs! My first attempt at a (half) decent YouTube video, and I honestly have no idea what I'm doing, but it seems to have worked out passably? So I'm rather proud! (Kids looking at me like, "dude, what? I've been doing videos online since I was 1...", yeah kid, I know....I know..)

And yes, David really made something that I think hits all the markers that I can find in the pics we have...Movement wise and ability to be concealed too, this design makes sense...

bearbeast wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:43 am Looks great, fifthchamber! Your other gear is awesome too.

Cheers,
Bear

Thanks Beast!

Yeah, mostly the result of wild usage of credit cards over a long period of time and the meeting of several very cool dudes online here and Facebook...LOL...I should have said in the video too I guess, but always forget to do so..The trousers are Todd's from his first run, and the shirt is a Magnoli, ordered in about 2009ish? And still fitting me rather well..The belt comes from Wade Egan, and was a present along with the gloves and gunbelt I'd ordered, and the hat was my Penman "Crusade", since I rather prefer the shorter look of the height over my Raiders..The jacket was my Steele and Jones, "Truck" jacket, the only change I'd made to that was to ask for a ribby front right panel, since I love that about the Raiders jacket, and the Truck standard didn't have that ribbing, so I asked Diego and they made my dreams come true....Absolutely STUNNING jacket, and easily the best I have...(The others are Todds, Nowak, Wested x2 and another S&J "Crusade"..)

I agree with Bear.

Awesome pics and gear, fifthchamber.

Thanks Canyon! Happy New Year to Chewie and yourself too! Hope 2024 is a lovely one for us all!

You're welcome.

I had a cold over Christmas and unfortunately, Mike now has one.

Nice work on interpreting the details, COW sleuths. If nothing else, this confirms a "screen-accurate" concealed carry option while in gear.

I wish Lee Keppler were around for this revelation. Lee loved him some Indy guns and holsters. I can hear him now - "well, why wouldn't Indy have worn one?" Then he would've had an interesting factoid about WWII-era shoulder rigs. We miss you, Lee.

Canyon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:47 am You're welcome.

I had a cold over Christmas and unfortunately, Mike now has one.

Colds ****....I'm sorry....

We had a massive earthquake and tremors for the New Years day, and then a tsunami warning that happily didn't materialise into a huge wave, and then on the second we had a passenger plane land on another plane and kill five of the six in that plane...One of my students and his family was in the plane with the passengers, and he helped them all off, carrying things and directing them off the plane in time to stop any injuries..Asami-san, great kid! And then, on the third there was a crazy lady on the train who stabbed a few people, luckily no deaths....It's been a bit of a wild year for Japan so far...I'm fine calling it quits here and hiding until 2025....

Cajunkraut wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 1:30 pm

I wish Lee Keppler were around for this revelation. Lee loved him some Indy guns and holsters. I can hear him now - "well, why wouldn't Indy have worn one?" Then he would've had an interesting factoid about WWII-era shoulder rigs. We miss you, Lee.

I was thinking the same thing when this all came to light. Lee would have been all over this!

GREAT job all!

Regards! Michaelson