Club Obi Wan

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
I can't answer this for everyone, but my take on it? Two reasons: While Peter makes a great costume jacket (keyword COSTUME) that's not built for the long run, Tony makes a great jacket made purposely to last through the stunts.

I just wanted to chime in on Peter's jacket and this comment I read in this thread.

I had the privilege of going to his shop several years ago and meeting him and his staff. He struck me as a real friend to the fan community and certainly took time out of his day for me without hesitation. I have 2 of his jackets - a lamb Raiders jacket and a sheepskin bomber coat. Both of which i have been very pleased with, especially when you consider the price he charges. I asked him for several things on the jacket which he did without hesitation and without extra charge. The person that made my jacket was one of the people that had been with him for years and who had made some of the original movie jackets which I thought was neat.

In terms of his jacket being a "costume" piece, I think this is an insult to his work. Seriously out of line. I have been to the store. He is not a "costume" shop - Peter has a store full of all kinds of non movie jackets he sells to real people to wear every day. I think he makes a good product at a very fair price. He is also a leather jacket maker who happens to make items for movies because he does custom work. He did stuff for Raiders, Star Wars (I think he did part of Darth Vader’s costume), James Bond Films, and Memphis Belle etc. so obviously Hollywood has been happy with his work. He has a bulletin board full of pictures from various Hollywood folk testifying to how happy they were with his product. I think this should speak for itself. Oh, and this board was not out on display in his shop as some kind of brag board - instead it was up on his office wall discreetly.

Someone mentioned that Tony makes jackets you can do stunts in. While I am sure this is true I would love to do a poll of our members and find out how many of us are actually doing this. For most of us, I suspect, Peter's jackets would last a lifetime as well.

Anyways, I am in no way related or affiliated with Peter or Wested but I wanted to respond to those comments about Peter's jackets.
best
Canada

the 'why are you defending it so heavily' camp would seem to be comprised mostly of those who have never seen an actual TN Raiders 1.

While this may be true we're still commenting on what we have seen so far. If someone doesn't like the way it looks for any reason what's wrong with saying that? I don't recall any derogatory comments about it, just relaying how one feels about what they see. Very true that that may change once it's in hand and not in pics but if we all only discussed what we have in hand the discussions would be minimal and it would get real boring and slow around here.

There are also two camps about the 'costume' vs. 'real world' jacket preference. I also think Peter's jackets are real world jackets but not ones you'd want to be very strenuous with. I don't necessarily think to have the opinion it's a costume jacket is an insult, just a perception of how one see's it. I've never had a problem with any of my Westeds but I can see how one would feel that other offerings are more solid choices. They're also more expensive offerings as well...something to consider. As with all gear, it's all down to personal choices, needs and wants. Some only want a nice jacket, others want something more and some will never be happy. Nothing wrong with any of that. We have plenty of vendors to fill all niches nowadays.

agent5 wrote:

the 'why are you defending it so heavily' camp would seem to be comprised mostly of those who have never seen an actual TN Raiders 1.

While this may be true we're still commenting on what we have seen so far. If someone doesn't like the way it looks for any reason what's wrong with saying that? I don't recall any derogatory comments about it, just relaying how one feels about what they see. Very true that that may change once it's in hand and not in pics but if we all only discussed what we have in hand the discussions would be minimal and it would get real boring and slow around here.

There are also two camps about the 'costume' vs. 'real world' jacket preference. I also think Peter's jackets are real world jackets but not ones you'd want to be very strenuous with. I don't necessarily think to have the opinion it's a costume jacket is an insult, just a perception of how one see's it. I've never had a problem with any of my Westeds but I can see how one would feel that other offerings are more solid choices. They're also more expensive offerings as well...something to consider. As with all gear, it's all down to personal choices, needs and wants. Some only want a nice jacket, others want something more and some will never be happy. Nothing wrong with any of that. We have plenty of vendors to fill all niches nowadays.

Some of the 'why are you defending it so heavily' camp comments have bordered on derogatory, especially related to the appearance of the leather.

I fully agree with your last statement, 'We have plenty of vendors to fill all niches nowadays.' which makes one wonder why some of the negativity about the TN Raiders. I get people commenting on what they see, but some have gone far beyond that, to the point of whinging about it. You'd think sometimes that the TN Raiders was suddenly the only vendor offering out there.

no single vendor's offering will be for everyone, especially with all the varying opinion of what the jacket is or should be.

Anyway, open and friendly discussion is good.

agent5 wrote: There are also two camps about the 'costume' vs. 'real world' jacket preference. I also think Peter's jackets are real world jackets but not ones you'd want to be very strenuous with. I don't necessarily think to have the opinion it's a costume jacket is an insult, just a perception of how one see's it. I've never had a problem with any of my Westeds but I can see how one would feel that other offerings are more solid choices. They're also more expensive offerings as well...something to consider. As with all gear, it's all down to personal choices, needs and wants. Some only want a nice jacket, others want something more and some will never be happy. Nothing wrong with any of that. We have plenty of vendors to fill all niches nowadays.

Perhaps it is just my own impression of the word "costume" - It makes me think of things like "costume jewelry" or those cheap costumes you buy for your kids at halloween. That may just be me. If we are referring the word 'costume' as something made as part of a movie costume then I guess in the truest sense of the word even Tony's jacket are "costume" jackets since they were made for a movie character's costume (of course made to the highest standards).

But as you say 5, lots of venders=lots of choice and I don't think any of use have a problem with that. Since I have been wearing Wested jackets for years I just wanted to clarify that you could indeed wear them on a regular basis in the real world and not only on halloween or at Indy events.
best
Canada

PS I should also note I own a G&B goat which is fabulous quality. Love that jacket - I find it a beautifully made jacket with a hide I find far superior to the lamb for durability yet still is relatively light.

I'm not sure where this idea of Wested jackets being Costume comes from. Costume is being used it seems to mean lightly constructed and not just a 'representation'.
Wested does or did offer a 'streetable' version, but I never had the impression the regular version was not durable.

Jakob Emiliussen wrote:
There it is again! Why make alterations if it's perfect (so many think it is)*? Is it because it's not that perfect after all? Or is it just because people have different perceptions of SA?

*I presume that you don't spend 675-1000$ if you are not going for SA as the main thing

If they do have different perceptions, then this discussion is meaningless

You'll have to ask the people who requested alterations. There were several Raiders jackets and they had certain details that were unique to a particular jacket. Maybe these people liked the idea of a pattern based on an actual screen used jacket but wanted to add the little details from another jacket that they loved?

On another front, I try to maintain as much integrity as I can on this and any board I'm on. This requires me to eat crow from time to time for shooting off my mouth without a license. I questioned the Indy I (especially when it first came out). Once I knew where to look in the movie for it, I began to change my mind. Once I saw pictures of the jacket on people (and I think this was a problem of the first photographs--this needs to be seen on the person), I was convinced. I don't own one yet (it's 90% done I'm told) so I can only comment via pictures.

And I'd say that I may have been a little overzealous in my praise of Tony. He's a fantastic guy to talk to and it's hard not to get caught up in his enthusiasm.

Another reason for my defense is that there are some who attack anything new. I'm not talking about reasonable doubts and intelligent discussion, but something...else. I know that it's been alleged that I was part of a conspiracy and all sorts of other stuff because I was working on the Wings ToD jacket.

this thread needs to get on topic.

I see lots of wested talk.jackets.hides.patterns.

this thread is named 'who is Tony Nowak'

if there isnt that much to dig up on TN then I see no future for this thread.

it will just turn into a thread with to many different discussions from the original topic.

Canada Jones wrote:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
I can't answer this for everyone, but my take on it? Two reasons: While Peter makes a great costume jacket (keyword COSTUME) that's not built for the long run, Tony makes a great jacket made purposely to last through the stunts.

I just wanted to chime in on Peter's jacket and this comment I read in this thread.

I had the privilege of going to his shop several years ago and meeting him and his staff. He struck me as a real friend to the fan community and certainly took time out of his day for me without hesitation. I have 2 of his jackets - a lamb Raiders jacket and a sheepskin bomber coat. Both of which i have been very pleased with, especially when you consider the price he charges. I asked him for several things on the jacket which he did without hesitation and without extra charge. The person that made my jacket was one of the people that had been with him for years and who had made some of the original movie jackets which I thought was neat.

In terms of his jacket being a "costume" piece, I think this is an insult to his work. Seriously out of line. I have been to the store. He is not a "costume" shop - Peter has a store full of all kinds of non movie jackets he sells to real people to wear every day. I think he makes a good product at a very fair price. He is also a leather jacket maker who happens to make items for movies because he does custom work. He did stuff for Raiders, Star Wars (I think he did part of Darth Vader’s costume), James Bond Films, and Memphis Belle etc. so obviously Hollywood has been happy with his work. He has a bulletin board full of pictures from various Hollywood folk testifying to how happy they were with his product. I think this should speak for itself. Oh, and this board was not out on display in his shop as some kind of brag board - instead it was up on his office wall discreetly.

Someone mentioned that Tony makes jackets you can do stunts in. While I am sure this is true I would love to do a poll of our members and find out how many of us are actually doing this. For most of us, I suspect, Peter's jackets would last a lifetime as well.

Anyways, I am in no way related or affiliated with Peter or Wested but I wanted to respond to those comments about Peter's jackets.
best
Canada

Since my quote has been repeated a couple times, I just wanted to comment on it before we get back on topic -Sorry Holt...

I based what I said mainly on a fairly recent post by _, in which he said (and correct me if I'm wrong) something to the extent of having had a conversation with Peter in the past, and when the subject of jackets was brought up, Peter said that the jackets were purposely not made to last, so that fans would have a reason to buy another one.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths. I admit that I did quite impassioned and carried away in my response to Jakob, but stand by what I said. To a certain degree, anyway.

My very first Wested was a custom Horsehide (non-Indy) jacket that hit the nail out of the park. It is one of my toughest jackets, and I'm fairly certain that I'll have it with me decades from now... However, with my other Wested's, I was less than impressed. The stitching always seemed quite lacklustre, and while the jackets seem fairly sturdy, I have had a few split seams, and have read many folks complaining about their Westeds coming apart just from a general lack of reinforcement. The leather isn't necessarily to blame, but rather the way it is stitched together. What I believe makes a jacket for me, the average city slicker, is not whether the leather can hold up through stunts - since I won't find myself being dragged behind a truck or falling off a cliff-, as that is more a sign of the leather's quality rather than the workmanship that goes into it... No, I believe what 'makes' a jacket is whether a jacket's stitching can withstand the constant abuse that we cause it, shoving our hands in and out of pockets, loading and unloading goods, etc...

Some of us treat our jackets as costume pieces, and this even includes the rough and tumble of us. By that, I mean all that jackets are used for is to be slipped on and off. Those of us who are hard on our jackets include the folks who wear them only on the jungles of a metropolis, but are hard on their jackets in that they test the stitching of the jacket through constant shuffling, pocket jamming, adjusting straps, etc. This is not to say that Wested's jackets are bad, per say, but rather that in my own opinion, Tony's jackets are built better.

Anyway, I'm sorry for the off topic response Holt, but perhaps these responses about Wested work in way in answering the question "Who is Tony Nowak" by allowing us to compare and contrast the two vendors, and hence better understand him this way?

Thanks Castor - this response was helpful to me.

Since I bought my Wested years ago I only have that to draw on. If Peter's quality has changed this is not something I am familiar with. I did not read the post about what Peter apparently told _ about the Wested was not being made to last. This does not sound like the man I met years ago in England who took such great pride in his work and workmanship. Actually without knowing the details it sounds like Peter may have meant it as a joke. I would shocked if he said it and meant it. It would be a terrible business move. AND Peter knows us well enough to know that if he wants us to get another jacket he just has to come out with a new hide or a new style like he is doing with the Noel Howard jacket. Actually I have wondered of late why Peter does not offer a Premium quality jacket at a higher price since there is a market among fans for a higher priced jacket. But I will leave that discussion to another thread.

I think we have cleared the air and thanks again for the clarification. Now lets, as Holt rightly suggests, get back to who Tony Nowak is.

One thing I can say about Tony is I have never ever heard anyone complain about the quality of his work or the customer service he provides so Bravo Tony. (how is that for a segway?)

best
Canada

gwyddion wrote:

RCSignals wrote:

gwyddion wrote:

RCSignals wrote:

Jakob Emiliussen wrote:...........

Gottcha!!

So you are just 'provoking'

No, he appears to have understood the explanation.

Regards, Geert

OK, so it is a 'Got you' Gottcha not a 'Gottcha' Gottcha

I guess so ;-)

Regards, Geert

Oh boy... I understood the message.... So it's a "I got you" as in "I understand what you are saying", not as in "Ha ha, I fooled you"...

Jakob Emiliussen wrote:

gwyddion wrote:

RCSignals wrote:

gwyddion wrote:

RCSignals wrote: So you are just 'provoking'

No, he appears to have understood the explanation.

Regards, Geert

OK, so it is a 'Got you' Gottcha not a 'Gottcha' Gottcha

I guess so ;-)

Regards, Geert

Oh boy... I understood the message.... So it's a "I got you" as in "I understand what you are saying", not as in "Ha ha, I fooled you"...

thanks for clearing that up

After my phone call from Mr. Nowak last night, I'm thinking of starting a thread called "Who does Tony Nowak think he is?" Honestly, the torrent of swearing and crude sexual analogies and even personal insults was not what I expected in response to my email outlining my concerns about my jacket. Customer care? Yeah, while he's trying to get your order maybe.

whiskyman wrote:After my phone call from Mr. Nowak last night, I'm thinking of starting a thread called "Who does Tony Nowak think he is?" Honestly, the torrent of swearing and crude sexual analogies and even personal insults was not what I expected in response to my email outlining my concerns about my jacket. Customer care? Yeah, while he's trying to get your order maybe.

Something is very odd with that

Agreed. I've dealt with Tony and he was never anything less than a pleasure to deal with - even when I had a sizing issue and had to have the jacket altered. I know from what others have said that Tony was EXTREMELY excited by the new shrunken lamb skin hide, so...maybe he'd been having a bad day and was offended when Whiskeyman was less than pleased with it? That's no excuse, mind you, I'm just trying to think of a reason for it. -M

whiskyman, what were your concerns with the jacket? You've only mentioned hide that I've read. Are there others? Just wondering.

So, compare and contrast, condensing the conversation, I guess Peter was originally working from notes for his raiders jackets, not patterns (not the case with the new ToD jacket) and Tony was working from an original raiders jacket. whiskeyman, I hope you told Tony you're Austrian and you're in good with Arnie, not to mention you make leather whips. Hope that situation works itself out.

whiskyman wrote:After my phone call from Mr. Nowak last night, I'm thinking of starting a thread called "Who does Tony Nowak think he is?" Honestly, the torrent of swearing and crude sexual analogies and even personal insults was not what I expected in response to my email outlining my concerns about my jacket. Customer care? Yeah, while he's trying to get your order maybe.

Can you elaborate more about what happened, whiskyman? I can understand how the swearing may have came across but the other two are very unlike Tony.

I wrote to Tony for advice. I explained that I loved the cut and fit of the jacket and that the colour and texture were spot on for Raiders. My concern, however, was about the durabilitly of the hide itself. I feel it is very soft and very stretchy and fear that it will easily tear. I asked for his opinion and also whether I had the option of returning the jacket either for a refund or to have it remade in another hide - or whether i should sell it - or whether he felf my fears were groundless. I pointed out that I thought it was a perfect replica of the Raiders jacket and was very well made - just that the hide in question was probably not what I was looking for.
Tony phoned me shortly after midnight and used the F word as if he had shares in it. The message that came through was that I was an idiot for not loving the jacket, no he would not take it back, I shouldn't even dare sell it, and I didn't have any balls (his phrase). I will spare you his comparison between jacket wearing and pretty women.
Maybe this kind of shock talk works in LA. It doesn't wash with me. He emailed me this morning to ask if he could use my pics on his website. I have consented in return for him kindly not phoning me anymore.

whiskyman wrote:I wrote to Tony for advice. I explained that I loved the cut and fit of the jacket and that the colour and texture were spot on for Raiders. My concern, however, was about the durabilitly of the hide itself. I feel it is very soft and very stretchy and fear that it will easily tear. I asked for his opinion and also whether I had the option of returning the jacket either for a refund or to have it remade in another hide - or whether i should sell it - or whether he felf my fears were groundless. I pointed out that I thought it was a perfect replica of the Raiders jacket and was very well made - just that the hide in question was probably not what I was looking for.
Tony phoned me shortly after midnight and used the F word as if he had shares in it. The message that came through was that I was an idiot for not loving the jacket, no he would not take it back, I shouldn't even dare sell it, and I didn't have any balls (his phrase). I will spare you his comparison between jacket wearing and pretty women.
Maybe this kind of shock talk works in LA. It doesn't wash with me. He emailed me this morning to ask if he could use my pics on his website. I have consented in return for him kindly not phoning me anymore.

Wow - that's quite the opposite of what everyone has said so far. I don't know who Tony think he is, but now at least I've got a clearer picture of who and what he might be - finally this thread is returning to the subject of it's titel

Thanks for letting us know Whiskeyman,

this shows how customer friendly he really is once a customer is not pleased. This is unacceptable!!!!
I know enough never to take my business with him how dare he !?????

So as long as you pay him and he gets your money he's nice to you? But when you have a problem, he turns into mr hyde?

Dutch_jones wrote:Thanks for letting us know Whiskeyman,

this shows how customer friendly he really is once a customer is not pleased. This is unacceptable!!!!
I know enough never to take my business with him how dare he !?????

So as long as you pay him and he gets your money he's nice to you? But when you have a problem, he turns into mr hyde?

It would seem like it. Whiskeyman, let us know how it turns out!

I'm sure this will land me in trouble. I don't know what transpired between Tony and Whiskyman (and I don't doubt Whiskyman's word), but I've only had excellent experiences with Tony.

I ordered my Indy I from Tony and then ran into trouble. To make a long story short, a body shop did a horrible job repairing some damage my truck received a while back and I had an unexpected $600 pop up and I had to dip into my jacket fund to pay for it. I emailed Tony about cancelling my order if he hadn't already started on the jacket. He called me the next day and told me that my jacket was already 90% finished. He seemed genuinely concerned about the situation and not from a selfish standpoint because he already had my money. Luckily, by that time, I had figured out how to get myself out of the bind so no biggie.

Again, I'm not trying to defend him in your situation, Whiskyman, and I hope that your situation resolves itself to your happiness. It just seems others are waiting to pounce on anything.

Well, this is an interesting turn on this thread. Whiskyman, I'm truly sorry that things have not worked out as you had anticipated it would/should have when you received your jacket.

I have a some things I would like to say about Tony. You may call it a defense if you wish (and attack me if you must) but I think of it more as an observation and maybe elaboration on some of what has already been said in posts past by others.

The first time I talked to him, this was some time before KotCS's release, what struck me most about him was his passion and enthusiasm for what he does. He spoke very humbly and passionately about the opportunities that have been afforded him since being born in Poland, moving to Austria and then ultimately California, the USA! "Make sure you do what you love to do!" he told me "because that is what being in the USA can do for you!".

When we finally got to the subject of making me a jacket on that first call it seemed a simple enough process: Give him a few measurements, distressing preferences, pick a number from 1 to 777. He asked if I had any further customization questions. At the time I did not. I told him I would call him if I had any. I did have end up having further requests and concerns which we worked through via pics via emails and subsequent phone calls. In one of those calls I apologized for being such a pain in the <bum> but I wasn't rich and wanted the jacket to come out right. He said to me that he wasn't rich and probably wasn't the greatest business man when it came to things like money (paraphrasing) but he promised that he would give as much time as I wanted and we needed to make this jacket right.

During all of our conversations I got a strong sense of the pride he has. It seemed the more emotional he got the more the curse words would drop. I joked to myself that the more he swore the better the jacket would be! There is a part of me that believes there is a truth in that. The musician in me believes in that 100%.

When the FedEx driver got lost (according to the FedEx office) boy did those words fly! He was so upset! It was 1030 at night my time that I talked to him so there really was nothing that could be done by FedEx, reasonably done anyway. But I had my jacket bright and early the next morning. It may have come on its own anyway but Tony told me he gave them #### and I believe him 100%.

Whiskyman, I think you got caught up in the passion and pride of Tony Nowak. Was he right to do what he did the way he did? No. He could have just said that he doesn't take returns on custom orders like just about every other vendor out there. I would say post it on his site but I only went to his site to grab his phone number. My dealings with him have been via email and phone. Objectively, it should have been mentioned somewhere in the calls and emails you had with him. When I was placing my jacket order I asked what might happen if it didn't fit or work out. He told me we would work to make it right. I know Peter and some other vendors will likely do that as well though usually at the customer's expense if I recall correctly. If there were concerns about the leather up front and he knew about it he probably could've/should've sent you some samples. It's not worth any further speculation on my part as I am not privy to your conversations with the man.

Obviously Tony is going to lose some customers over this transaction. It's a shame. As you said, you got the exact jacket you ordered but you wanted to return it anyway. That's probably what made Tony go off that proverbial deep end. He has so much pride, passion and belief in his work he couldn't make sense of what you were saying and reacted, in a lot of peoples eyes, in a very bad way. But is this pride, passion and belief that brings his vision and execution of the Indy I jacket to fruition in the first place.

[/b]Edit due to accidentally hitting submit prematurely!

Perhaps I'm overreacting, I dunno. I'm sure he is a passionate man and perhaps he has an unfortunate way of expressing that sometimes. Whatever. I'm through with this whole thing.

whiskyman wrote:Perhaps I'm overreacting, I dunno. I'm sure he is a passionate man and perhaps he has an unfortunate way of expressing that sometimes. Whatever. I'm through with this whole thing.

I can understand your being upset. I've had several conversations with him and he is very, very passionate about his work. I also think, from speaking with him, that he is fluent in the profanity ;-) . I always got the impression that he was trying to hold back and this was just a natural way of talking with him. It never bugged me because I know several people like that but I can understand how someone might be offput.

Anyway, I'll stop chirping and I hope everything works out for you.

This probably won't be the first or last misunderstanding or disagreement between a vendor and a customer, so this is probably a good reality check.

One thing I've learned over the years is that people can be far different (more aggressive and assertive) over the phone than they are in person.

I like Tony and love my CS jacket but if what Whiskyman said is true, Tony needs to show a little more professionalism if he wants to go far with his business. It's nice to hear about Tony's interactions with his customers as if they were his long-time friends, but in the end, he has to treat them as customers and act accordingly.

PSBIndy wrote:I like Tony and love my CS jacket but if what Whiskyman said is true, Tony needs to show a little more professionalism if he wants to go far with his business. It's nice to hear about Tony's interactions with his customers as if they were his long-time friends, but in the end, he has to treat them as customers and act accordingly.

I think he has already gone pretty far in this business and has garnered quite acclamations along the way. Having said that, I agree with you, PBSI. It's a tough line to walk sometimes, the professional/friendly. I deal with that in my company all of the time - employee and manager interaction drifting between the professional/friendly line.

It is a very hard line to walk. I'm just not the strict disciplinarian type of teacher, it's just not me. I like to joke and develop a rapport with the students. But, in the end, it's a teacher/student relationship and that has to be kept in mind.

It's a thin tightrope.

Personally, I think Tony's attitude on the phone might be how I react from time to time. Foul language, insults and all. But I can't say it's something I'd be proud of! Part of why I avoid work that demands too much customer service.

Anyway, this whole jacket section has become a love-fest for Tony as of late and honestly, it's getting odd and Kool Aid-ish. I'm sure Tonys jacket's are the best, but geesh.

In all seriousness, a customer doesn't need to hear that (kind of wierd) but don't know exactly what transpired to bring it about. But having being told I've no balls I wouldn't ever feel to fine wearing that thing again.

while most of you are right... I still think if you paid 1000 dollars plus shipping for a jacket you ought to get something worth that money ! And I think the least Tony could do for that kind of dough is show some respect.

So I hope that all who buy a Tony Nowak keep in mind:
Its a 1000 dollars, and if something is wrong with it you're screwed. Other jacket vendors like Wested or G/B will help a customer if they're unhappy with a jacket......

Like said above, seriously unprofessional.

In my country there is a law that you can return any bought item in 8 days if you don't like it and get a refund, how does that work in America?

Its a 1000 dollars, and if something is wrong with it you're screwed. Other jacket vendors like Wested or G/B will help a customer if they're unhappy with a jacket......

Dutch, I think you (and Jakob for that matter) are relying too much on one bad review. I agree fully that Tony shouldn't have acted in this way, but to say "oh, he's a bad business man, I shouldn't ever deal with him" based on one review when everyone else has had nothing but high praise for his customer service is a bit skewed. For example, as I said, there was something wrong with my CS jacket when I got it and I definitely wasn't screwed: Tony took it back and altered it for only the cost of shipping. I think you're putting too much weight in one review. -M

Dutch_jones wrote:
In my country there is a law that you can return any bought item in 8 days if you don't like it and get a refund, how does that work in America?

Different stores have certin return polices and sometimes certain items cannot be returned. Unless I already know I always ask.

Dutch_jones wrote: Its a 1000 dollars, and if something is wrong with it you're screwed. Other jacket vendors like Wested or G/B will help a customer if they're unhappy with a jacket......

Like said above, seriously unprofessional.

In my country there is a law that you can return any bought item in 8 days if you don't like it and get a refund, how does that work in America?

On custom orders I know that if there is an issue with fit/sizing Wested will work with you but at your cost including some shipping costs. I asked about this some time ago I was concerned about fit when I was ordering my first Wested and didn't think OTR would work for me due to very broad shoulders. G&B I believe is the same way but will do alterations at their expense. But that's when there's an issue with the fit of the jacket. I can't say definitively either way, for custom orders, that they would redo the entire jacket in a different hide if you have already stated that it is sized perfectly, is excellent in its craftsmanship but the only thing you don't care for is the leather itself. I know for sure Wested has a no custom returns policy or at least they did when I got one of my Wested's. Would they or other companies rebuild the jacket from scratch all over again in a situation similar to Whiskyman? Good question.

Regarding the eight day return law: I wish that there was a law like that in America though I realize I should be careful what I wish for. In business 101 you learn that very often if a company incurs losses (and can't write them off) on things like theft, returns, etc. they just pass those costs back on to the customer. The cost of goods in America would likely rise with such laws in place.

I had a friend who when he opened his own business had NO experience or training in customer service relations. He was not at all polite or courteous and did not know how to handle certain situations although he was a very good businessman. I was trained by a fortune 500 company for over a decade on customer service so his faults were incredibly easy to pick up on. Once I sat him down and explained that a 'thank you' or a 'have a great day', an 'I'm sorry' or a 'nice to see you again', goes a very long way when dealing with customers and more importantly, keeping them. He also would curse in front of customers and I also had to point out to him that while most people won't care one way or the other it does put some people off. Doesn't bother me in the least but it is a bit unprofessional, especially if you want repeat customers or word of mouth customers as well.

In the end I cannot comment on Pagey's conversation since I didn't hear it and we're only getting one side of the story, I can understand how some people would feel a bit uneasy if they had the conversation he said he had. In the end it is Tony's business and he can run it any way he sees fit. He doesn't seem short of customers or films to work on and may not feel any reason not to be himself. Still, I think if Pagey is accurate in his assessment of the conversation I think many here would specifically be upset to be spoken to in that manner. Many here are very old fashioned, proper people and wouldn't take kindly to it. I honestly would rather be spoken to like I speak to my friends. Keeping it real. Again, just as with the gear, it's more a matter of preference. Like everything, I guess.

Cursing to a customer is always unprofessional, especially if it's done as an attack instead of out of humor. I think I feel sorry for both parties involved, you can NEVER please everybody and to think you can is misleading yourself. Especially in business one has to be prepared to have unhappy customers and be mentally prepared to deal with it, even if the customer takes the low road of cursing, which was not the case this time.

Whiskeyman have you tried taking this up with your credit card company? Don't they have consumer protection built in?

Has anyone ever successfully returned anything to Tony?

Dutch_jones wrote:Whiskeyman have you tried taking this up with your credit card company? Don't they have consumer protection built in?

I'm not complaining about returns policy. I'm just disapointed to have been treated so rudely by a vendor when asking for advice.

whiskyman wrote:

Dutch_jones wrote:Whiskeyman have you tried taking this up with your credit card company? Don't they have consumer protection built in?

I'm not complaining about returns policy. I'm just disapointed to have been treated so rudely by a vendor when asking for advice.

Oh sorry, Yeah well thats only normal that you feel that way, anybody would feel that way!

PSBIndy wrote:I like Tony and love my CS jacket but if what Whiskyman said is true, Tony needs to show a little more professionalism if he wants to go far with his business. It's nice to hear about Tony's interactions with his customers as if they were his long-time friends, but in the end, he has to treat them as customers and act accordingly.

If you search the threads about what some have experienced with customer service from Wested, and dealings with Peter directly after a problem, you could say the same thing about Peter and his business.

I have no idea of the conversation Whiskyman had with Tony other than what Whiskyman has said. I'm not suggesting Whiskyman is not telling things as he interpreted them, but still say something is not right.

I have complete confidence that if a Customer has a problem at any time with one of Tony's jackets, he will be taken care of, and most likely at no extra expense. Suggesting a remake of a jacket because one doesn't like the hide I can fully understand would not apply. I have no doubt that Tony would not offer a refund on a Custom garment. I know of no one who does.

It has been stated here before, from early on, that his hide is soft and stretchy, yet strong and durable. It was stated that because of this stretchiness, the hide is not easy to cut. I'm surprised Whiskyman missed those posts.

Dutch_jones wrote:while most of you are right... I still think if you paid 1000 dollars plus shipping for a jacket you ought to get something worth that money ! And I think the least Tony could do for that kind of dough is show some respect.

So I hope that all who buy a Tony Nowak keep in mind:
Its a 1000 dollars, and if something is wrong with it you're screwed. Other jacket vendors like Wested or G/B will help a customer if they're unhappy with a jacket......

Like said above, seriously unprofessional.

In my country there is a law that you can return any bought item in 8 days if you don't like it and get a refund, how does that work in America?

I get it. You, and I believe Jacob, don't like Tony's offerings, you don't like the price of his jackets, and you've both hung on to every possible negative aspect of Tony Nowak to support your position.
At least that's how it is coming across.

On returns, each State has it's own consumer laws governing time for returns, most companies have policies that comply or go beyond the law requirements. Custom items are almost always the exception, and I'm surprised if they are not also in Holland.

If you search the threads about what some have experienced with customer service from Wested, and dealings with Peter directly after a problem, you could say the same thing about Peter and his business.

...and this is relevant in this thread, how? Just to take a jab or what? People have had bad dealings with most of our vendors but overall have had pleasant experiences. This thread is about Tony, not any other vendor. Why drag Peter into this unless you have another motive yourself?

agent5 wrote:

If you search the threads about what some have experienced with customer service from Wested, and dealings with Peter directly after a problem, you could say the same thing about Peter and his business.

...and this is relevant in this thread, how? Just to take a jab or what? People have had bad dealings with most of our vendors but overall have had pleasant experiences. This thread is about Tony, not any other vendor. Why drag Peter into this unless you have another motive yourself?

No other motive. I think is relevant as it illustrates there have been reported issues with other vendors, and there needn't be a knee jerk reaction to one reported event. We only ever hear one side of these complaints, and decisions cannot be made on hearing only one side. People continue to buy from Wested without incident and receive a good product despite a few complaints.
How's that for 'motive' ?

Since this thread was answered way back on page 1, this is getting shut down as it has derailed entirely off topic. Customer services posts…as long as they don't lead to baiting or flaming, can be brought up elsewhere.

agent5 wrote:

Or a moderator.

I can be pretty certain that even if your comment was posted in jest it will most likely be taken with the utmost seriousness. You may want to add multiple smileys...unless you're not joking, in which case, look out.

You're wiser than you look, 5. ;-)

As we have staff who are German and take great umbrage at such comparisons, Strones has been asked to contemplate his remarks during his vacation.

COW Admin