Browning and FN?

[BrandonA18]

Hi guys,

It's tough to get better screen captures without a Blu-Ray.

I have a few unpublished Raiders stills that show with absolute certainty that a low-site, no thumbprint pistol was used in the Raven bar. I cannot put these online, but if anyone is in the LA area you can come by our office and see them.

Best,
Brandon Alinger
The Prop Store of London
www.propstore.com

[Alkali Jones]

Hey BrandonA18,

To clarify, you "cannot put them online" because either: you are not technically savy and cannot post the pictures (like me), or: you cannot post them because that was the agreement for getting the pictures. It seems that if anyone can come by the shop and "see them", then it's the first. If that's the case, everyone has a geeky friend who can do this for them (I do). If it's not the case, can you post a cropped picture showing just enough to prove your point and that it's a Raiders photo, but not enough to violate the spirit of the agreement with the person the photo originated with. Did any of that make sense??

Dan S

[BrandonA18]

Hi guys,

Small cropped photos as requested.





Take care,
Brandon Alinger
The Prop Store of London
www.propstore.com

[RaiderZee]

WOW! That last shot pegs it. That is indeed a match for the FN shown in "The Making of Indy" book. So we definately have two SA Brownings. Thanks, Brandon, for all your help in clearing up a bunch of gun questions lately!

RaiderZee

[Alkali Jones]

Hey BrandonA18,

Thanks Brandon! Well, I'm with RaiderZee on this one, the bottom picture has the small rear sight and external extractor no Inglis ever had. Looks like we have two Hi Power type guns used in the Raven Bar, an Inglis HP and an FN (or Browning) HP. I'll start looking for a screen cap worthy picture to help this along. How interesting...

Dan S

[RaiderZee]

Can someone post the pics of Indy's Hi-Power as shown in "The Making of Indiana Jones"? Can't lay my hands on my copy right now and I really need to see the pics before our local gun show this weekend.

Thanks,

RZ

[Alkali Jones]

Hey RaiderZee,

Brandon's picture above (the smaller one) is about as good as you'll find without the book. The book does not show an Inglis. It's either a Browning or an FN (I know, not much difference except what's stamped on it). The gun in the book picture doesn't have a thumbprint, either.

A note, I have gone through Raiders one frame at a time. In all scenes where the gun is identifiable, it's an Inglis. It seems likely that the "other gun" was used as a stand-in for blocking and such while the Inglis was being loaded. Safety demands not using that gun to do rehersals and practice runs. Blu-Ray may clear this up later, but for now, no new pictures showing the "other gun". Oh well.

Dan S

[RaiderZee]

OK, gun guys, best guess: Indy's Inglis HP has what type of finish?

1. Parkerized matte grey
2. Parkerized matte black
3. British foreign service "stovepipe" black paint
4. Reblued

If you've got more options, throw 'em out there.

RaiderZee

[RaiderZee]

Hello (tap, tap)? Is this thing on? Where'd all the gun guys go?

RZ

[Alkali Jones]

Hey RaiderZee,

Sorry about that RZ, I was asleep at the wheel. A fellow I e-mailed over at http://www.hipowertalk.com sent me this for modifying my HP.

Here is the recipe for reproducing the Inglis finish devised by Parker ( now the Pyrene Co Ltd , High Wycombe England ) and recommended by the FN team to Inglis during the early stages of manufacture . This is known as Parkerise P Number 41( I think the 41 refers to the date i.e. 1941- the Number 41 = black shellac ).

I have the recipe and instructions if you're interested. I have made no effort to confirm any of this because I'm not ready to re-do my HP's finish at this time. Take it for what it's worth, but I think Malcolm works for a British museum caring for the guns, but I'm not certain. He also got me the dimensions for where the hole goes for the lanyard ring, but I haven't worked on that yet either. No time or money!

Dan S

[Dragonlady Jones]

OK, gun guys, best guess: Indy's Inglis HP has what type of finish?

1. Parkerized matte grey
2. Parkerized matte black
3. British foreign service "stovepipe" black paint
4. Reblued

If you've got more options, throw 'em out there.

RaiderZee

I'd say reblued and worn - ready to be reblued again!

[RaiderZee]

Dan, that forumla and instructions would be great to have, if you don't mind posting them or PMing them to me. Is it a hard proceedure for a first-timer to carry out? I've never done any serious rebluing, etc. I assume I'd have to strip the old finish first?

The reason I ask is I have a line on acquiring an Inglis, and pretty cheap, but I believe it's in the foreign service "stovepipe" paint job. I want one that looks like the HP in the Raven Bar, so what do we think the finish is on that gun?

IMHO, it looks like it's the original finish that's been beat up, but I really have no way of knowing.

RZ

[Alkali Jones]

Hey RaiderZee,

I would guess that the Inglis Indy carried had a very worn original finish. That, of course, is a guess. Here is the e-mail in full. You can decide if it's difficult or not.

Hi Dan ,

I hope you received the info O.K. ? If you have any problems I will talk you through it .
When drilling the frame , you will need to clamp it horizontally . The back strap of the frame should be 19mm wide ( or thereabouts - same as the front part you have already measured ). The width of the frame at its widest part ( the magwell) should be around 25mm or thereabouts ( sometimes as much as 1" [25.4mm - I think at some stage they used imperial spec steel from the U.K. in the frames ] . You will need to shim the back strap by the difference ( around 3mm - 3.25mm) in order to get better support when drilling the hole , as the wide part for the mag well is very narrow and too weak to clamp properly without the shimming .If this is not done the frame may not be completely horizontal .
If you have a marked difference in the above dimensions , please let me know .

Here is the recipe for reproducing the Inglis finish devised by Parker ( now the Pyrene Co Ltd , High Wycombe England ) and recommended by the FN team to Inglis during the early stages of manufacture . This is known as Parkerise P Number 41( I think the 41 refers to the date i.e. 1941- the Number 41 = black shellac ).
The recipe has been modified for home use .

1/2 tea cup or small spirit glass full of Phosphoric acid
1/2 tea cup or small spirit glass full of Manganese dioxide powder
Distilled water ( enough to fully cover frame and slide)
1 ball or biscuit of fine steel wool ( wood workers - acts as a sort of leveller )

1 small tin of black shellac

Always wear protective eyeshields and gloves etc .
Ensure everything is spotlessly clean and fully degreased ( I use Micro cleaner used for surgical instruments but almost any cleaner/detergent will work ) . The slide and frame can be lightly sandblasted for that dull 'Inglis' look .Store cleaned parts in paper towels ready for use . Always wear gloves when handling anything .
In a large Pyrex saucepan or enamelled steel saucepan ( do not use stainless or aluminium - the pan must be glass or glazed ) put in enough distilled water to fully imerse parts . Add ACID TO WATER ( never the other way around !) down a GLASS rod or tube or spoon . Stir in the Manganese dioxide powder with the same rod or spoon . Bring solution to a very slow rolling boil . Add the steel wool . Suspend the parts by clean - grease free fine steel wire tied through the part where the finish will not show (like the firing pin hole in the slide , and a grip screw hole in the frame ) and suspend without touching the pan or steel wool in the solution using bamboo skewers or sticks laid across the top of the pan . Slightly agitate as you do so to ensure no air bubbles are trapped inside the parts -try not to splash the solution . Leave to soak in the slow boiling solution for around 20 mins or so . Take out and rinse with clean boiling water - NOT the solution . Leave to dry ( very quick if water is boiling !) .
If the finish is not even the parts were not properly degreased or the solution not fully mixed .
When fully dry lightly spray or rub with black shellac evenly on the finished parts and leave to fully harden in a warm environment ( or as recommended on the tin ) then remove suspension wire . Depending on the the sand blasting , the parts will resemble the finish of an original Inglis HP , a dull almost satin black .


I get my chemicals from Rose Chemicals in Tottenham , London , but they should be available almost anywhere in your neck of the woods , try the local DIY hardware store or chemist .

Cheers
Malcolm

Oh, and I checked a previous e-mail, Malcolm is a "technical vonlunteer" at the museum.

Dan S

[RaiderZee]

Thanks for the post Dan. Actually, that technique doesn't look TOO hard. I've got a couple of parts gun lying around; maybe I'll experiment with that technique later this fall.

RZ