Tailoring detail on the Indy jacket

Continent · Post by **Continent** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:25 am

For those of you who are thinking of buying a Wested jacket and want to have good freedom of movement in the arms, ask Peter if the armholes can be cut higher into the armpit. The measurement, in tailoring terms, is called the "armseye". Basically it means that the armhole, where the sleeve meets the body of the jacket, is smaller. What results is that the jacket is cut to correspond with the way your arms move, so you can move your arms freely without the jacket riding up, and there is less of a need for gussets. Of course, with a high-cut armhole and gussets, you have a jacket which is extremely unrestrictive.

To take this measurement yourself, ask Peter first which ones he will need. The two basic measurements are:

From your waist, straight up along your side and up into your armpit

and

Holding your arm straight out to the side, measure in a loop over your shoulder and under your armpit (you are measuring the thickness of your shoulder socket.

Hope this helps. Believe me, I have an assortment of jackets and the ones that are cut high under the armpit offer totally unrestricted freedom of movement.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:37 am

Highly appreciated!

Thanks,

Marc

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:56 pm

Q: So does this mean the armhole is wider (larger cicumference) or just moved to a different position? One key and noticable difference between Wested and G & B is that latter has much deeper armholes, the former (Wested) seem to have less room. (Not a judgmental statement...just and observation...difference folks will like different cuts).

Mr. Das · Post by **Mr. Das** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:06 pm

Just request Peter to drop the arm holes a bit and he'll figure it out.

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:24 pm

Continent wrote:For those of you who are thinking of buying a Wested jacket and want to have good freedom of movement in the arms, ask Peter if the armholes can be cut higher into the armpit. The measurement, in tailoring terms, is called the "armseye". Basically it means that the armhole, where the sleeve meets the body of the jacket, is smaller. What results is that the jacket is cut to correspond with the way your arms move, so you can move your arms freely without the jacket riding up, and there is less of a need for gussets. Of course, with a high-cut armhole and gussets, you have a jacket which is extremely unrestrictive.

To take this measurement yourself, ask Peter first which ones he will need. The two basic measurements are:

From your waist, straight up along your side and up into your armpit

and

Holding your arm straight out to the side, measure in a loop over your shoulder and under your armpit (you are measuring the thickness of your shoulder socket.

Hope this helps. Believe me, I have an assortment of jackets and the ones that are cut high under the armpit offer totally unrestricted freedom of movement.

I agree with this theory. There will be a less "blousey" feel to the jacket, and the body will not move around as much with this mod.

I also think that if the arms were attached at more of a higher angle, in relation to the body, this would eliminate the need for gussets completely.
If you notice, the Wested jackets arms are attached at a 45 degree angle from the body. If the is angle was widened, to maybe 70-75 degrees from the body, the arm movement would also be vastly improved, and with no restriction whatsoever.

Continent · Post by **Continent** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:33 pm

To answer Lao Feng's question, the armholes would actually be smaller in circumference--not so small that you can't get your arm through, of course. Essentially, the distance along the side seam from the bottom of the jacket to bottom of the armhole would be increased. This is actually the effect that the double gussets perform--extending the length of the side seam and the underside seam of the sleeve to give the wearer a greater range of motion.

For a better explanation, check with Peter. He probably has a better handle on how to describe this.

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:54 pm

Thanks for the insights!:D

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:53 am

Now this made me read and read again, as I CAN see where you are initialy coming from as is is fact that the more you restict the armhole width the more you unrestrict lateral movement. But it has drawbacks when it comes to cross movement.
Futher the idea of increasing the sleeve angle to allow more forward movement is OK especially if you walk with your arms outstretched.
So the answer is to balance theary with practice, so we are now looking at sleeve angle and width against the official mens tailoring books to see if the pattern needs further tweaking to eradicate some of the little niggles which have arisen.
I will come back on this.
Cheers
Peter

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:59 am

This is great Peter, I'm glad you read our posts here at COW. I'd love to know how this turns out. I'm going to be ordering a new Wested soon, and I'm hoping the raised angle for the sleeves helps the design, and doesn't hinder it.
Please keep us posted.

I love this guy!
'Blues

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:00 pm

But, are they screen accurate niggles?

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:34 pm

Man ordering a jacket is getting confusing...

So for my next jacket, I'm ordering a Raiders authentic lamb, with fight scene accurate gussets, black sliders, xbox patterns, shortened collar width, decrease armhole size, increased armhole angles, extra inch added in front, hidden press studs, elevated back panel, and screen accurate niggles!

I have no idea how Peter keeps his sanity, god bless the man.

Carolina Jones · Post by **Carolina Jones** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm

Peter .. Are you still reading this thread!?

Sorry to post my personal question here folks - please don't hate me ... but Peter,

I'm planning on visiting the UK in October and would dearly love to own a Raiders, Lamb Jacket. I noted from your site that there is a need to specify if you're female - What differences do you suggest to such a jacket and do you welcome people just showing up? .. Thanks in advance!

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:47 am

I don't hate anyone I just dislike a lot of people.

As a lady you are more than welocme to visit and would leave any measuring details until your visit as the patterning is different mainly in the shoulder width and sleeve.
Look forward to seing you call or email before you leave so I can be sure to be there
Cheers
Peter.

On the other thread we are experimenting by increasing the forward angle of the sleeve by 15 p.c. so when hanging loose the cuff is slightly forward of the jacket. Watch this space
Cheers
PETER

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:53 am

Awesome Peter, can't wait to hear about the results.

Carolina Jones · Post by **Carolina Jones** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:27 am

Thanks Peter ... See you in the Fall!

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:46 pm

Has anyone heard from Peter on this altering of the sleeve angle test?
I've been checking back daily, and nothing yet.
'Blues

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:23 pm

Well there was not a lot wrong but theangle has been moved slighly and a little more ease in the back sleeve panel means less pressure on the action pleat. also reverting back to not having the action pleat stitched at the side adjuster seems to allow the pleat find its own level. A little more tension from top to bottom of the action pleat also helps.
Funny but the problem seems only in the goat jackets and that is because they stretch on the edges and not in the middle so you end up witha butterfy effect now hopefully cured.
More satisfying is the Horsehide jacket which is one tough jacket.
Also a superb new lambtouch hide sampled in black is totally unblemished and hopfully will be the same in the brown when it arrives.
Thats all folks!
Wher's my carrot
Cheers
Peter

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:08 pm

Peter, you are unbelievable! I for one cannot tell you how much I appreciate the trouble you go through to address these things. Great news on the horsehide jacket as well. How does your horsehide leather drape? Horsehide makes one personalized jacket as it really conforms to the wearer (eventually

) Just when I thought I had all of the jackets I need...

As for your carrot, you deserve more than one. Here you go.

This was actually taken from the World Carrot Museum website. I am not making this up!

http://website.lineone.net/~stolarczyk/

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:22 pm

LOL Rick. Peter will certainly see well in the dark after that lot...

Peter, great news - thanks for continually developing your product and caring enough about us 'fans' to come here and discuss such things.

If this works out, I'm guessing it will just be made standard on all future jackets?

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:24 pm

=D> Thanks so much Peter for all the hard work. I for one really appreciate it. I own the goat Indy, and it's true, it doesn't give you much stretch in the material, as some of the other leathers do.
Again, thanks a bunch, and you will be recieving my order soon.

$\:D/$

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:42 am

IndianaGuybrush wrote:Man ordering a jacket is getting confusing...

So for my next jacket, I'm ordering a Raiders authentic lamb, with fight scene accurate gussets, black sliders, xbox patterns, shortened collar width, decrease armhole size, increased armhole angles, extra inch added in front, hidden press studs, elevated back panel, and screen accurate niggles!

I have no idea how Peter keeps his sanity, god bless the man.

I think this is great customer service. It makes me think of some of the common modifications that gearheads seem to request most often.

Speaking solely of the Wested Raiders jacket----for all the work Peter is putting into the sleeve angle, if the change begins to appear in the Raiders jacket then will other changes also appear such as the shortened collar width, xbox patterns, cargo pocket size and placement, etc.? I'm just thinking that if these subtle yet important tweaks continue to get attention then, ultimately it would save Peter a lot of time and paperwork b/c there would be less requests to alter the Raiders jacket (with the exception of size differences, "my left arm is 1 1/2 inches longer" etc.).

Just some thoughts,

I.J.

Tailoring detail on the Indy jacket

Tailoring detail on the Indy jacket

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