Help with Ribbon and Bow work

[Western New York Indy]

Hi!

I was wondering if anyone can supply information on attaching the band and bow to a hat. I used Dalexs' Ribbon Replacement tutorial for the first hat I made and it helped a lot! I am looking to improve my skills and wondered if anyone had more pictures or advice. There seems to be almost no step-by step information on the internet on how to make bows, other than the aforementioned tutorial by Dalexs.

Secondly, does anyone have a good technique for keeping the band tight on the hat while sewing it on? I usually just tack it in place with small pins. Then I go around and add four stitches towards the bottom of the band, and four stitches on the loose ends that the bow covers up. However, I find that the reeding tape on the sweatband gets in the way a lot. Any tips on how to make it less bothersome? Also, any specific type of stitch I should be using? I just use very fine stitches running from the inside of the hat, out through the band, then back through the band and hat, and then run it through itself a few times to tie it off. The way I sew on the ribbon and make the bow works fine, but I'm wondering if there are more refined techniques I can learn.

Additionally, any good ribbon suppliers people recommend? I've been using Etsy, but I'm looking for better quality stuff.

Thanks

-WNY Indy

[Indiana Jeff]

When I read the thread title my immediate thought was “Dalexs’ tutorial,” so I’m happy to know you’ve already used it.

In terms of keeping the ribbon tight, I’ve read that some will take the ribbon off the hat, sew it into a loop and then slide it onto the crown. Generally this is being done when the goal is to create a very tight ribbon more in line with the SOC look, but you can have the ribbon be as tight/loose as you want.

Garrison Hats (Local Land Surveyor here) years ago bought a sizable inventory of very good ribbon, if memory serves, it is the same ribbon Adventurebilt used. He offered it for sale at one point.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Dalexs]

I'm glad to see that the tutorial is still helpful.
Keep in mind that I was never an expert on that, and the techniques I used were based on discussions with Steve Delk (Fedora)
We were both learning at the same time.

Regarding a tight ribbon, tacking stitches are your friend.
And what kind of ribbon are you doing, a single, 1 piece bow as part of the ribbon (which is hard to manage depending on thickness of the material)
or a 2 piece, just the wrap around main ribbon, then bow attached separately?

The way I like doing it is a 2 piece, which I show on that page.
Tack the first stitch on the lower side, under the sweatband.
Wrap the ribbon around and do the same on the other end.
Fold the tops of the ribbon in at the meeting point, on an angle, and they will be covered by the bow better.
and then then just add the additional 6 or so tacks to finish up.

Sweat bands are my arch nemesis. Never really got a good technique for that.
Mark Brody did a nice tutorial about that.
viewtopic.php?t=27053
Unfortunately pics are gone, but I may have a set at home.

Steve told me to run a holding thread all the way around the sweat, and THEN tack it in place.

Sources of ribbon are tough. The good stuff comes from England. It's listed n here somewhere.
I bought a full roll a long time ago and farmed it at at cost, but I think thats all gone.

Etsy is probably your best bet at this point.

Dalexs

[Western New York Indy]

When I read the thread title my immediate thought was “Dalexs’ tutorial,” so I’m happy to know you’ve already used it.

In terms of keeping the ribbon tight, I’ve read that some will take the ribbon off the hat, sew it into a loop and then slide it onto the crown. Generally this is being done when the goal is to create a very tight ribbon more in line with the SOC look, but you can have the ribbon be as tight/loose as you want.

Garrison Hats (Local Land Surveyor here) years ago bought a sizable inventory of very good ribbon, if memory serves, it is the same ribbon Adventurebilt used. He offered it for sale at one point.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Without that tutorial I would be so very lost. Like I said, I was unable to find any other tutorial online for making anything remotely close to an Indy style bow. There are plenty of "how to make a hat" videos, but none of them show ribbon or bow work in depth.

I have heard of that technique, though I have never tried it myself. I usually keep the ends of the ribbon loose, since to the best of my knowledge that is how they do it at Herbert Johnson. I might have to try that technique sometime if I make a SOC hat.

Good to know! Maybe I can try reaching out to Mr. Garrison and see if he has any of that ribbon left. The biggest headache with trying to break into the hat making game has been getting supplies. Much to my surprise, good ribbon has been pretty hard to locate.

-WNY Indy

[Indiana Jeff]

Supplies are definitely a challenge if you are not buying in volume.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Western New York Indy]

I'm glad to see that the tutorial is still helpful.
Keep in mind that I was never an expert on that, and the techniques I used were based on discussions with Steve Delk (Fedora)
We were both learning at the same time.

Regarding a tight ribbon, tacking stitches are your friend.
And what kind of ribbon are you doing, a single, 1 piece bow as part of the ribbon (which is hard to manage depending on thickness of the material)
or a 2 piece, just the wrap around main ribbon, then bow attached separately?

The way I like doing it is a 2 piece, which I show on that page.
Tack the first stitch on the lower side, under the sweatband.
Wrap the ribbon around and do the same on the other end.
Fold the tops of the ribbon in at the meeting point, on an angle, and they will be covered by the bow better.
and then then just add the additional 6 or so tacks to finish up.

Sweat bands are my arch nemesis. Never really got a good technique for that.
Mark Brody did a nice tutorial about that.
viewtopic.php?t=27053
Unfortunately pics are gone, but I may have a set at home.

Steve told me to run a holding thread all the way around the sweat, and THEN tack it in place.

Sources of ribbon are tough. The good stuff comes from England. It's listed n here somewhere.
I bought a full roll a long time ago and farmed it at at cost, but I think thats all gone.

Etsy is probably your best bet at this point.

Dalexs

It has been very very helpful indeed! Even if you're not an expert on it, it's a lot more helpful than just trying to figure it out on my own. Wish I could have asked Steve Delk a bit about his techniques. I've learned everything I know about hat making by just teaching myself, or using online tutorials, but it'd be great to be able to talk to a pro hatter.

I do the 2 piece version. By tacking under the sweatband do you mean behind the leather part of the sweatband or underneath where the sweatband is attached?

Sweatbands are indeed a pain. It took me a bit to figure out that you're supposed to sew through the reeding tape in the back, not through the pre punched holes under the reed- I wondered why my sweatband stitch lines were always poking out underneath the ribbon, and now I know why Next mystery I've been trying to figure out is how the heck some hatters get the triangular shaped stitch on the sweatband. Seems to me like having that kind of stitch would eliminate the "hinge point" of a straight stitch and make it impossible for the sweatband to be folded down. Do you have a place you'd recommend getting sweatbands from?

That thread has some good info even if though the pictures are gone, so thanks for linking it! If you do find any of the pics, I'd be quite interested in seeing them. I've heard about using a thread to keep the sweat in place before stitching it in, but I haven't used that technique yet myself. I'll have to try it sometime.

Etsy has worked alright so far. The only issue is that the ribbon I got from there is a bit plastic-y, for lack of a better word. It doesn't really crease well and it's a bit stiff looking compared to the ribbon on my Fed IV and the ribbon I saw when I visited the Herbert Johnson store. It's nice stuff, just not perfect.

-WNY Indy

[Western New York Indy]

Supplies are definitely a challenge if you are not buying in volume.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

For sure. I was in communication over email with a few different hat body suppliers, but each time after I sent an email saying I only needed one or a few at a time, rather than bulk, they never wrote back. I understand that bulk orders are the norm, but it makes it quite hard for "garage hatters" like me (though I don't have a garage, haha) to get good materials. I can't get to the point where I need a bulk order if no one will supply me with the materials that I need to get started until I make a bulk order. It's a bit like a never ending cycle.

-WNY Indy

[Indiana Jeff]

You can try to ask to purchase a “sample body.” Suppliers may not want to sell a one off body, but a sample will be provided. All in the language.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Dalexs]

Poking around a bit more today, because this thread got my interest piqued again...

These are some threads wroth checking out for ribbon source.
This is apparently THE original source of the ribbon, and where we got our bulk run a few years back.
https://tw-bracher.co.uk/product/galloon-ribbon/

These guys carry it apparently in smaller quantities
https://www.hatblocks.co.uk/product/galloon-ribbon/

But either way you pay out the rear for shipping and fees.

Here's some thread interest

viewtopic.php?p=893998&hilit=tw+bracher.co.uk#p893998
viewtopic.php?p=957532&hilit=ribbon#p957532

[Western New York Indy]

You can try to ask to purchase a “sample body.” Suppliers may not want to sell a one off body, but a sample will be provided. All in the language.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Can't believe I didn't think of doing that I think I'm going to have to give it a try. Thanks for the tip

-WNY

[Western New York Indy]

Poking around a bit more today, because this thread got my interest piqued again...

These are some threads wroth checking out for ribbon source.
This is apparently THE original source of the ribbon, and where we got our bulk run a few years back.
https://tw-bracher.co.uk/product/galloon-ribbon/

These guys carry it apparently in smaller quantities
https://www.hatblocks.co.uk/product/galloon-ribbon/

But either way you pay out the rear for shipping and fees.

Here's some thread interest

viewtopic.php?p=893998&hilit=tw+bracher.co.uk#p893998
viewtopic.php?p=957532&hilit=ribbon#p957532

Thanks! Looked into both suppliers and that ribbon looks great! I certainly don't need 50 meters as of right now, but I'm definitely going to keep it in mind for the future. The site selling smaller batches seems like a good deal, though like you said with shipping and VAT and such it really racks the price up.

However, I did some digging, and Guy Morse Brown sells that same ribbon (or at least it's the same judging by the product photos) on Etsy. You can get 5 meters of it for 18 USD. 15 bucks of that is shipping, but it's cheaper than buying it from their main site, where the total with shipping came out to $27.00
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1278746500 ... ch_click=1
If it's the same ribbon, it's not a bad deal at all.

-WNY Indy