Is Herbert Johnson the holy grail of indy fedoras now?

[IndianaJustin]

Thanks for asking this, my questions as well.

[Dr. Jones, Jr.]

I currently have an HJ Raiders that I got about two years ago secondhand.. I am very impressed by the screen accuracy, the floppiness of the felt, and even it's durability to water as a hare hat although I do not take it out in serious downpours. From my own first-hand experience with it and others testimonials, I would argue that Herbert Johnson is back in the top tier of hatters. I don't know that I would pay as much money as they charge for a hat, but I don't think there are any concerns that I would have regarding their quality or screen accuracy at this point. Just my two cents.

[IJJTM]

They're pretty good, but I think their Raiders are too tapered.

[IndianaJustin]

While I think it would be great and even with favorable exchange against the pound it's still north of $600 for beaver I calculate. Hmm...

[SFGiant]

I'm kicking myself for ordering a couple weeks ago and not waiting even more for the GBP to drop.

[Chose Poorly]

Personally, I am a big fan of Herbert Johnson's current offerings. I have two in my collection, a standard Seaplane Beaver Poet, and a bespoke Rabbit Poet with a mix of attributes (hattributes?) from all four films. And I have another rabbit felt Poet in the queue that should be on my head before year's end. For the sake of credibility, over the years I have had fedoras from Akubra, Steele & Jones, Adventurebilt Legacy (Penman), Penman, Fedoraiders, and Garrison Hatters. And I've handled just about every other Indy hat available.

First and foremost, in terms of quality alone, HJs made since Michelle Poyer-Sleeman took over as Master Hatter are incredibly well made. The materials are top of the line, and the craftsmanship is top notch. Virtually flawless, to be honest. And the durability is well above average. For context, I do not baby my hats at all. I wear them daily, sweat in them, handle them constantly, reshape them... I even occasionally roll them up and shove them in my jacket pocket if I'm in a pinch. Both of my HJs have handled this abuse with ease and still look as good as they did brand new. And they are, without question, the most comfortable fedoras I have ever worn. Personally, I find rabbit to be more comfortable due to its breathability and pliability compared to beaver which is more durable and weather resistant but also more dense. Enough so that I've ordered another in rabbit.

As far as comparisons go, in my personal opinion, the only Indy hats I've seen and handled that compare to the overall quality of HJs made by Michelle are those made by Thomas at AdVintage. And to IJJTM's earlier comment, I would say that Thomas' Raiders hats are more screen accurate than HJs. Unfortunately AdVintage has suspended taking orders until later this year or early next due to their queue getting too deep. However, if you're focused primarily on screen accuracy but really want an HJ, I would suggest talking to Michelle and seeing how she can modify her process to achieve a desired crown height or straight-sidedness. I've seen HJs in all shapes and sizes, so I don't think it should be approached with a "one-size-fits-all" mentality. Is the block size and shape important? Absolutely. But the more hats you make, the more you learn that there are a lot of cheats and adjustments that can be made to achieve a specific end product. I digress.

There really is no simple answer without a full understanding of what matters most to you. But I can promise that you will not be disappointed with the quality, comfort, longevity, and aesthetic. For what it's worth, I have bought and sold countless Indy fedoras, the best and the worst. But my two HJs are the only ones I've never considered selling. And I assume the third will be a permanent addition to my collection as well.

And I definitely recommend ordering while the GBP is more comparable to the USD in value unless budget is a major concern, which is the only other category where AdVintage beats HJ. Thomas is a one man show, and HJ is owned by a large company with overhead and real estate. That always comes with a higher price tag. But you can get a HJ in about 14 weeks last I checked, and you can't get an AdVintage at all until Thomas opens up his queue again.

I hope this helps and wasn't just a useless rant. Haha.

[Dr. Jones, Jr.]

Well said, Chose Poorly! I tend to agree. I've had no issues with taper whatsoever with mine... I think that tends to be a little hit or miss, but mostly good from what I've seen.

[jlee562]

With the USD being so favorable against the GBP right now, I’m considering ordering a HJ Raider sable beaver. Has the quality and durability of their hats improved to put them back on par with the best hatters? When KotCS came out, people were avoiding HJ like the plague because their hats were hardly better than Dorfman Pacific. It seems things have changed, but how much? How do the current HJ offerings compare to other popular alternatives like S&J, Penman, or even Steve Delk’s original AB?

Can't emphasize enough how apples to oranges the old HJs are to the new ones. Different raw material, different maker. The old hats were made by Christy's, using felt that was not especially high quality. The new HJs are built in house using much nicer felt from the best felt maker around.

I don't have much more to add to after ChoosePoorly's well thought out comments. But will add that I am still really enjoying my HJ. You are paying a bit of a brand name premium over other hatters. But as I mentioned in a previous post, for me, there's some intangible quality added by having the HJ logo on the sweat band and liner. My HJ hat suits my needs, if you want that SoC look down to the exacting details, HJ may not best suit your needs. But if you just want a really nice Indy hat, HJ is making 'em.

[Mark Brody]

Glad to hear all this. I placed my order for a beaver HJ. Not that it was cheap, but I saved myself about $300 getting it now as opposed to when there is a more typical exchange rate between the USD and GBP.

[SFGiant]

Wishful thinking but I hope the GBP drops to .5 of 1 USD then I'll spend my life savings on more HJs and Westeds

[Mark Brody]

If I hadn’t come across an article about how the Bank of England might raise interest rates to address the falling value of the pound, I wouldn’t have known about it. Since they’re already talking about addressing the issue, I figured it was prudent to order now, rather than hold out in hopes of a better deal. You never know when the market has reached its peak high/low until the moment has passed.

If the GBP gets down to 50¢, I may order a second hat, but we all know it won’t get that low.

[Thunderspy]

Wishful thinking but I hope the GBP drops to .5 of 1 USD then I'll spend my life savings on more HJs and Westeds

Speaking as someone who lives in the UK and has a mortgage... I really hope not

[SFGiant]

Wishful thinking but I hope the GBP drops to .5 of 1 USD then I'll spend my life savings on more HJs and Westeds

Speaking as someone who lives in the UK and has a mortgage... I really hope not

Well I was half kidding lol, but I legitimately was curious what would happen. Like for those in the UK does life go on normal while tons of Americans buy stuff, or does your buying power literally get cut in half too?

[Illinois_Jones]

Well if Sterling keeps dropping, and it probably will some more, you'll probably see vendors with a large international customer base crank prices up at a faster rate for international customers in order to keep pace while also bringing in more overall value on their end. I mean, US customers are used to paying X in USD for an HJ or a Wested so I think it's possible we see them raise prices in GBP to keep it at that value in USD.

Like I was looking at getting a new Wested sheepskin for winter and last Friday the price was $325 and I was waiting to see if it would drop further only to see that by Monday they had raised the price like £60 so all of a sudden it was $390. It may be a seasonal thing with it now being autumn and moving into holiday season, and they didn't do it to all of their products just seemingly the sheepskin, but don't be surprised to see an extra large inflation hike coming soon. Especially since HJ sources their felt from Portugal.

[Hobbit Fedora]

First and foremost, in terms of quality alone, HJs made since Michelle Poyer-Sleeman took over as Master Hatter are incredibly well made. The materials are top of the line, and the craftsmanship is top notch. Virtually flawless, to be honest. And the durability is well above average. For context, I do not baby my hats at all. I wear them daily, sweat in them, handle them constantly, reshape them... I even occasionally roll them up and shove them in my jacket pocket if I'm in a pinch. Both of my HJs have handled this abuse with ease and still look as good as they did brand new. And they are, without question, the most comfortable fedoras I have ever worn. Personally, I find rabbit to be more comfortable due to its breathability and pliability compared to beaver which is more durable and weather resistant but also more dense. Enough so that I've ordered another in rabbit.

As far as comparisons go, in my personal opinion, the only Indy hats I've seen and handled that compare to the overall quality of HJs made by Michelle are those made by Thomas at AdVintage. And to IJJTM's earlier comment, I would say that Thomas' Raiders hats are more screen accurate than HJs. Unfortunately AdVintage has suspended taking orders until later this year or early next due to their queue getting too deep. However, if you're focused primarily on screen accuracy but really want an HJ, I would suggest talking to Michelle and seeing how she can modify her process to achieve a desired crown height or straight-sidedness. I've seen HJs in all shapes and sizes, so I don't think it should be approached with a "one-size-fits-all" mentality. Is the block size and shape important? Absolutely. But the more hats you make, the more you learn that there are a lot of cheats and adjustments that can be made to achieve a specific end product. I digress.

There really is no simple answer without a full understanding of what matters most to you. But I can promise that you will not be disappointed with the quality, comfort, longevity, and aesthetic. For what it's worth, I have bought and sold countless Indy fedoras, the best and the worst. But my two HJs are the only ones I've never considered selling. And I assume the third will be a permanent addition to my collection as well.

Thanks for this post! I’ve been craving a Herbert Johnson Poet for a while and your perspective is really appreciated. You said the durability of the rabbit felt is above average, just curious if that includes really hot and muggy weather like what you might see here in Florida. I’d be getting rabbit too if I order a HJ.

[Castor Dioscuri]

Thanks for this post! I’ve been craving a Herbert Johnson Poet for a while and your perspective is really appreciated. You said the durability of the rabbit felt is above average, just curious if that includes really hot and muggy weather like what you might see here in Florida. I’d be getting rabbit too if I order a HJ.

Hmm, you might want to read my post on having the crown on my rabbit HJ collapse in Florida's humidity:

http://www.indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?t=73144

And that was from wearing it maybe two to three days only with no rain. In addition to what happened to the crown, the brim also became very pliable, and has since stuck in the shape that I was tweaking it in while in Florida (i.e. snapping it downwards over my eyes).

For comparisons sake, the brim on my beaver fedoras usually take an entire season's worth of tweaking before they "remember" that position.

Personally, I'd get a beaver. None of my beavers have ever had anything like that happen in over a decade of regular use, and that's in all kinds of weather (heavy downpours, snowstorms, etc). YMMV, but that's just my experience.

-sidenote: to be fair, it was a really hot and humid summer in Orlando, and I was in the parks, hopping on and off rides, some of which may have had misting effects. I guess it is possible if the fedora got misted enough on a ride, and back out into the hot and humid weather, that might have ended up acting as a makeshift steamer...? So I don't know how typical my experiences are...

[craigjohn]

Just received word my HJ Raiders is ready to ship. Holy cow, they nailed this one.



Hat is based off this scene...




I'll tweak the pinch and bash if needed once it's in my hands.

So excited to get this home.

[IndianaJustin]

That really looks great, good for you!

[WConly]

That really looks great, good for you!

Agreed! Man that hat looks 'spot-on' ! W>

[Mark Brody]

Looks great! Is that the sable or deep sable? Rabbit or beaver?

[craigjohn]

Looks great! Is that the sable or deep sable? Rabbit or beaver?

Deep sable rabbit.

[IndyFan89]

I’m thinking about ordering a TOD poet— which felt color would be more SA?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IJJTM]

I’m thinking about ordering a TOD poet— which felt color would be more SA?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like normal Sable works better, but go with whichever you see on screen.

[indy89]

The color will fade with sun exposure, so if I were to order a HJ, I'd choose deep Sable. That's just me, though.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Beswick]

Just received word my HJ Raiders is ready to ship. Holy cow, they nailed this one.



Hat is based off this scene...




I'll tweak the pinch and bash if needed once it's in my hands.

So excited to get this home.

That is a beautiful hat! Congrats! I have a similar hat on order, but wont get it until around December. What do you think you will tweak on the pinch? Make it sharper?

[AttyOzzy]

Hi Indy Brothers and Sisters! I have acquired some very excellent gear within the last few months, and I have some catching up to do.

I am happy to begin with a discussion about my beaver felt Poet fedora from Herbert Johnson. While KOTCS may not be my favorite movie in the Indy franchise, it is home to my favorite Indy fedora. I very much like the high tight pinch that crowns the wide frontal triangle below; the tall boxy look; and most of all, I love the wide FLAT and even brim.

The other hats are all great and all look awesome on Mr. Ford and on all of You. When it comes to actually wearing a hat on my head, I have never been entirely comfortable with a curled (“cowboy”) brim or too tall crown. The KOTCS strikes me as very versatile and can be comfortably worn with any of the jackets without feeling like look is mismatched (my own OCD issues).

The BRIM:

My KOTCS Hat has the perfect flat brim. While I am sure the KOTCS brim measurements are similar to other hats, my brim just feels wider without feeling like a Dr. Who hat (again, great hat but just not on my head). The front brim bends nicely, and covers my forehead down to my eyes without making me look like a gunslinger at high noon. The subtle back brim curl screams 1930/40’s class, while the sides and front say this hat is meant for adventure (and much appreciated sun cover for this very pale fellow).

The CROWN:

Boxy and beautiful. Straight sides, and no taper to my eye. The center dent is screen-accurate deep without touching the top of my head. My complaint with some hats has been an insufficiently shallow center dent. Haven’t we all looked at that rear Cairo-screen-pic of Indy walking towards Marion’s burning truck and thought, “Wow, that’s a fine deep center dent. Does my hat have that?”

Here’s something that may sound odd. My HJ KOTCS has the nice boxy, square look, without producing an excessively wide crown. I suppose the best way to describe this observation is to say that the box crown looks proportional on my head. I wear this hat daily without worrying that I look like I did when I was 12, wearing my Dad’s hat. Not always an easy feat, no matter how precise one’s measurements may be.

The BASH:

My KOTCS has very sharp, angular, bash. Nothing “soft” or relaxed about it. The side dents go back nicely, perhaps slightly farther back than the LC hat. I find that these sharp/crisp side indentations also contribute to this tall hat not looking too tall on my 5’7 self.

The FELT:

Hang on, let me feel this again. Ok, got it. So, this is where the felt pros and other HJ owners may be able to assist me in deploying the correct adjectives. This beaver felt feels smooth but not clay smooth. Meaning, you can still feel jussssssst enough of the fibers to know that they once belonged to a furry creature. Not a typo on the “s”. Rather, it is my attempt to convey that the beaver fur texture is present, but NO, the hat does not need a shave.

The MAKER/ARTIST:

Before I even put this hat on my head, I down pulled the sweatband to see if I could spy Michelle’s signature or initials. And, bam!, there they were. Michelle has made a few hats for me over the years. Her memory as to her customer’s sizes, real-life fit, and stylistic preferences, is spot on and quite impressive. Accordingly, for this KOTCS hat, we really didn’t need to have a ton of dialogue. I recall a few years ago, I shared with Michelle that I was paranoid about any hat that looked too tall or too wide on me. She clearly recalled this discussion, because as stated above, the dimensions are perfect. I almost wish I ordered an identical clone of this fedora (to remain unopened and on stand-by) in case something happens to this one.

That being said, I know from my previous experiences with Michelle that if I had any questions, additional requests, or needed conversations, she was ready and available to assist.

I hope this review is helpful. I know that a Herbert Johnson is an investment and I wouldn’t have ordered this hat unless I intended on wearing it daily, or kept it unless I loved it as much as I do. Thank you Michelle!

That being said, I know from my previous experiences with Michelle that if I had any questions, additional requests, or needed conversations, she was ready and available to assist.

I don’t want to be overly verbose, so I will bring this to a close. Bottom Line: This is a perfect hat in my mind. The measurements are on point; the shape is precise, and adventure is brewing within!

If anyone has any questions, please fire away publicly or via dm. Photos below- just scroll down as I was able to get all pics on one imgur link


https://imgur.com/a/WZW8f7e

[tubasthebest]

Great detailed review! And a great looking hat. Michelle knocked it out of the park.

[WConly]

As stated, elsewhere; 'You've chosen wisely'! W>

[IJJTM]

HJ just officially confirmed that they did the DOD hat.

[IJJTM]

https://swaine.london/pages/icons-of-cinema

[Chose Poorly]

https://swaine.london/pages/icons-of-cinema

Huzzah! Thrilled for Michelle!! So well deserved.

[Canyon]

I heard a rumor a couple of days ago, but didn't want to say anything until it was officially confirmed.

Congratulations, Michelle!!!

[Illinois_Jones]

Well the thing is, with Thomas at AdVintage and Brian at Screencapped -- along with the others, probably -- being forced to dramatically increase prices because of the cost of felt these days, it's made HJ much more competitive in the marketplace overall, especially considering the lineage. I always cared more about quality and the look at a fair price, and before the main value add of HJ compared to AdVintage etc was primarily in the make and the logo, but as long as HJ doesn't have to follow suit and dramatically raise prices they've moved into center position of the Indy hat market IMO.

[jgino]

Does anyone know why all the Indy hats are not available at HJ?

[Hollowpond]

I saw a guy in an outdoors shop in Greenville NC wearing an HJ. I commented on his hat, because honestly I thought it had to be a custom job from one of the hatters around here. That's how good it looked. He just told me, "No, it's from a place over in England. They made the original hats..." Shocked I said, "Oh! A Herbert Johnson!?!?!" He was surprised I knew them.

I asked if he knew about this place and he said he didn't. I pointed him in the direction.

Anyways, long story to say this...HJ makes excellent hats. If they are the new holy grail, at least it's in good hands.

[IJJTM]

Does anyone know why all the Indy hats are not available at HJ?

I think Michelle is taking a well-deserved break for a few weeks.

[Noah]

I’ve never bought a Herbert Johnson, but I’m very much wanting to get one. I’ve read on HJ’s Facebook that the Temple Poet has a “paired down” brim compared to Raiders, which I take to mean that it’s slightly narrower. Which I think would suit my face better than the wider brim. But can anyone say what the differences in proportion are between their Temple and Crusade hats? Any difference in crown height and brim width?

Also, does anyone have a Crusade Poet in Sable Rabbit as opposed to Deep Sable? I’d love to see how it looks.

I have a Penman Raiders from around 2010 or so. It’s a great quality hat and looks awesome, but I feel like it’s a bit too tall and the brim is a bit too wide on me.

[Sasch1987]

Seems like they have gone up drastically

[jlee562]

Obviously, I can't speak to the wholesale price that HJ pays; but, I know that the US distributor of FEPSA felts has recently raised their prices as well. There's high demand now because Winchester has not been accepting new customers for some time.

[Illinois_Jones]

Yeah, looks like I jinxed it with the price. They don't even have beaver listed -- I wonder if they're too low in stock now or if it's now a special order and they don't want the general public getting sticker shock.

It's too bad. I had been seriously planning on getting a new hat this year, but I can't bring myself to pay that when only a few years ago I was paying probably less than half that from many hatters. It's not their fault, of course, and hopefully there'll be a market correction at some point next year whenever the felt industry and market can figure itself out. I can imagine there's been an upswing in demand lately given the new film, and even going back two years when people were spending their govt stimmy money on Indy hats, but I can't imagine the demand surge on $500+ fedoras is THAT big. I mean, I can't remember exactly what I paid for my beaver AB from Steve way back like 25 years ago but I could swear it was just south of $200.

[Castor Dioscuri]

I'd be surprised that if felt prices go down, that HJ would lower their prices. Just think of it as inflation.

[Doctor_Jones]

Everything has become so expensive these days. And that’s a bit sad.
I still have my HJ from over a decade ago. I paid 179 euro for it, if I remember correctly. Must be back in 2011 if memory serves me right. Bought it from Thomas at Advintage.