I tried doing multiple searches and couldn't find anything which really answered my question, so I'm going to ask you fine whipersnappers... What is the difference between a single belly whip and a double belly whip? I would assume that a double belly whip would be stronger, yet stiffer than a single, but how does this affect the construction, durability, feel, and cracking of a whip? Do whip users have a preference, and why?
bink
What is the difference between single and double belly whips
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binkmeisterRick
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midwestwhips
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Re: What is the difference between single and double belly w
Bink,
Quite an excellent question!!!
Well, to start, pretty much all of the well known 'Indy' Whipmakers out there will use two plaited bellies in their indywhips. Some use a shot bag as the core, with a four plait belly, and then a bolster and another four plait belly, another bolster and an overlay. Some do a leather core(rawhide, kips hide, kangaroo hide) then a four plait, bolster, four plait, bolster, overlay. Some will do it with a four or six plait first belly, and an 8 plait second belly. It all depends on the maker.
On the shorter whips, generally there is only one "plaited belly" but there are bolsters and fillers and the core. For me, I only do one plaited belly on anything shorter than 5 foot. There isn't really a need for a second belly, and not alot of room for one either if you want to make a smooth whip.
Basically, what the double plaited belly mostly does is give the thong more weight to roll out with. It also builds up the thickness of the thong, along with the bolsters. On the shorter whips, there is less distance the whip needs to roll out and less weight needed to do it. It is so short that there is less room for a taper that goes from so large to so small.
I've made three and four footers before with two plaited bellies, and I've seen some other makers who have done four foots with two plaited bellies, and I didn't like the boubles nearly as much as the single plaited. Usually they are too heavy, and the whip isn't as smooth.
Something else to think about is stockwhips, I don't think I've ever seen a stockwhip with two plaited bellies. At least all the whipmakers I know in australia only use one plaited belly in their stockwhips, and they work excellent.
The main difference in feel between a 6 foot stockwhip and a six foot bullwhip(other than the obvioious size and action difference) is the weight. The six foot stockwhip, which is really about 8 foot when you include the handle, is a lot lighter than the six foot bullwhip.
I dont think stronger or stiffer is really an issue with the belly construction, I made a signalwhip last week that was 16 plait(supposed to be more flexible, right?) with no plaited belly, just a shotbag and thats it, and it is one of the stiffest whips I've made. stiffer than the 8 and 12 plaits that were sitting next to it. You could roll it up, but it wouldn't stay rolled, it just wanted to stay out straight.
Durability is more based on the outer layer construction than the bellies. What makes a whip more durable is wider cut strands. More specifically wider strands at the point of the whip, where it is more likely to hit the ground and take abuse and abraision. More surface area to take the abuse. Thats why Indywhips are almost always made with the 6 strands at the end instead of the 8. that way you can cut wider strands and have thicker stronger strands at the end. It has almost nothing to do with the bellies.
The bellies do have to do with the feel of the whip for about the first half of it, not much but if you know what your looking for you can tell. Also the weight is something you'll notice.
Ok, I've rambled on a bit, and probobly repeated myself, but I hope it helps. Let me know if I missed something. And any of the other whipmakers lets hear from you, anything you've found differently in your experience, or anything I missed?
Regards,
Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips
Quite an excellent question!!!
Well, to start, pretty much all of the well known 'Indy' Whipmakers out there will use two plaited bellies in their indywhips. Some use a shot bag as the core, with a four plait belly, and then a bolster and another four plait belly, another bolster and an overlay. Some do a leather core(rawhide, kips hide, kangaroo hide) then a four plait, bolster, four plait, bolster, overlay. Some will do it with a four or six plait first belly, and an 8 plait second belly. It all depends on the maker.
On the shorter whips, generally there is only one "plaited belly" but there are bolsters and fillers and the core. For me, I only do one plaited belly on anything shorter than 5 foot. There isn't really a need for a second belly, and not alot of room for one either if you want to make a smooth whip.
Basically, what the double plaited belly mostly does is give the thong more weight to roll out with. It also builds up the thickness of the thong, along with the bolsters. On the shorter whips, there is less distance the whip needs to roll out and less weight needed to do it. It is so short that there is less room for a taper that goes from so large to so small.
I've made three and four footers before with two plaited bellies, and I've seen some other makers who have done four foots with two plaited bellies, and I didn't like the boubles nearly as much as the single plaited. Usually they are too heavy, and the whip isn't as smooth.
Something else to think about is stockwhips, I don't think I've ever seen a stockwhip with two plaited bellies. At least all the whipmakers I know in australia only use one plaited belly in their stockwhips, and they work excellent.
The main difference in feel between a 6 foot stockwhip and a six foot bullwhip(other than the obvioious size and action difference) is the weight. The six foot stockwhip, which is really about 8 foot when you include the handle, is a lot lighter than the six foot bullwhip.
So basically, to answer your questions specifically;What is the difference between a single belly whip and a double belly whip? I would assume that a double belly whip would be stronger, yet stiffer than a single, but how does this affect the construction, durability, feel, and cracking of a whip? Do whip users have a preference, and why?
bink
I dont think stronger or stiffer is really an issue with the belly construction, I made a signalwhip last week that was 16 plait(supposed to be more flexible, right?) with no plaited belly, just a shotbag and thats it, and it is one of the stiffest whips I've made. stiffer than the 8 and 12 plaits that were sitting next to it. You could roll it up, but it wouldn't stay rolled, it just wanted to stay out straight.
Durability is more based on the outer layer construction than the bellies. What makes a whip more durable is wider cut strands. More specifically wider strands at the point of the whip, where it is more likely to hit the ground and take abuse and abraision. More surface area to take the abuse. Thats why Indywhips are almost always made with the 6 strands at the end instead of the 8. that way you can cut wider strands and have thicker stronger strands at the end. It has almost nothing to do with the bellies.
The bellies do have to do with the feel of the whip for about the first half of it, not much but if you know what your looking for you can tell. Also the weight is something you'll notice.
Ok, I've rambled on a bit, and probobly repeated myself, but I hope it helps. Let me know if I missed something. And any of the other whipmakers lets hear from you, anything you've found differently in your experience, or anything I missed?
Regards,
Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips
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winrichwhips
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I would consider that a single belly whip has only one layer of braided leather in the inside of the whip and a double belly whip has two layers of braided leather inside the whip. These braided layers may or may not have solid layers of leather (bolsters or fillers) packed inside them or around the outside of them before the final overlay (the braiding you see) is plaited onto the whip.
The style of construction of the whip and the type of leather used will be more of an influence in the stiffness and durablity of the whip than just the number of bellies.
As far as the number of bellies influence constuction, it takes longer to put two bellies in a whip that one becuase there is more cutting and braiding involved. For durablity, David Morgan writes that the two-belly style of construction in his 455 bullwhips have shown to maintain a stable shape (i. e. the leather doesn't stretch to make the whip thinner in spots) and provides a very solid transition from the solid handle to the flexible lash.
As for feel and cracking, I think this depends more on the shape and weight of the whip than just on the number of bellies. Some may find that a whip made with multiple bellies will have a smoother action than a single belly whip made my the same maker. To make the comparison even truer, the maker would use the same materials for both whips and have the same clarity of mind when making both whips. The whip with the single belly would require thicker fillers and bolster(s) to create a whip of the same diameter.
I prefer making Indy-style bullwhips, whether out of cowhide or kangaroo hide, with two bellies because I've grown accustomed to this style of manufacture and I use this style to build a whip with the weight and taper that I'm looking for.
As a whip user, I prefer single belly Austrailian-style stockwhips over bullwhips, not becuase of the single belly by itself, but becuase the whip is lighter. I can swing it for a longer period of time and do a wider variety of cracks without destroying my shoulder and elbow trying to get the whip to do what I want it to.
-Adam Winrich, www.winrichwhips.com
PS: For the other whipmakers out there, I'd be very interested if you have anything to add to this post.
The style of construction of the whip and the type of leather used will be more of an influence in the stiffness and durablity of the whip than just the number of bellies.
As far as the number of bellies influence constuction, it takes longer to put two bellies in a whip that one becuase there is more cutting and braiding involved. For durablity, David Morgan writes that the two-belly style of construction in his 455 bullwhips have shown to maintain a stable shape (i. e. the leather doesn't stretch to make the whip thinner in spots) and provides a very solid transition from the solid handle to the flexible lash.
As for feel and cracking, I think this depends more on the shape and weight of the whip than just on the number of bellies. Some may find that a whip made with multiple bellies will have a smoother action than a single belly whip made my the same maker. To make the comparison even truer, the maker would use the same materials for both whips and have the same clarity of mind when making both whips. The whip with the single belly would require thicker fillers and bolster(s) to create a whip of the same diameter.
I prefer making Indy-style bullwhips, whether out of cowhide or kangaroo hide, with two bellies because I've grown accustomed to this style of manufacture and I use this style to build a whip with the weight and taper that I'm looking for.
As a whip user, I prefer single belly Austrailian-style stockwhips over bullwhips, not becuase of the single belly by itself, but becuase the whip is lighter. I can swing it for a longer period of time and do a wider variety of cracks without destroying my shoulder and elbow trying to get the whip to do what I want it to.
-Adam Winrich, www.winrichwhips.com
PS: For the other whipmakers out there, I'd be very interested if you have anything to add to this post.
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Major Mike
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The achilles heel of a bullwhip is the transition from the hard handle to the flexible thong. There are numerous ways to make that happen inside, but the second belly adds opportunity to strengthen that joint.
Weight is another reason. I've made some 4 foot bullwhips with just a single belly, and there is more work involved in getting them to crack than the longer whips with two bellies. For my next four footer, I'm going to try shot loading it to compensate for the lost weight.
Taper is the other reason. With the addtional belly, the diameter at the start of the thong is naturally larger that without one, which means that you have the opportunity for more taper, depending on the length of the whip (which is why on a four or 5 footer, the second belly often isn't necessary, or even overkill).
The crack comes from the inertia created from moving the handle (mass of the whip at the handle times the velocity of the throw) moving down the length of the thong (so at the end, the decrease in mass as the whip tapers has increased the velocity of the thong at the end). The smoother the taper, the more even the weight distribution decreases, and the easier the crack.
Stockwhips with single belly thongs approach the problems differently. There is no strength required at the handle/thong transition because it is done by joining the two with a keeper knot. The longer stiff handle adds greater leverage, and the swell of the the belly means the whip doesn't start to taper down until a foot or two into the thong. With the added leverage being able to impart more initial velocity, the whip thong doesn't need to be as heavy to have the same effect at the point of the whip.
David Morgan has a new style "Classic" bullwhip where he uses three plaited bellies. I was up there a few months ago and looked at the prototype, and I am assuming he's substituted the third plaited belly for the bolsters that are usually in there. It didn't look significantly different in size or shape from his usual one.
Weight is another reason. I've made some 4 foot bullwhips with just a single belly, and there is more work involved in getting them to crack than the longer whips with two bellies. For my next four footer, I'm going to try shot loading it to compensate for the lost weight.
Taper is the other reason. With the addtional belly, the diameter at the start of the thong is naturally larger that without one, which means that you have the opportunity for more taper, depending on the length of the whip (which is why on a four or 5 footer, the second belly often isn't necessary, or even overkill).
The crack comes from the inertia created from moving the handle (mass of the whip at the handle times the velocity of the throw) moving down the length of the thong (so at the end, the decrease in mass as the whip tapers has increased the velocity of the thong at the end). The smoother the taper, the more even the weight distribution decreases, and the easier the crack.
Stockwhips with single belly thongs approach the problems differently. There is no strength required at the handle/thong transition because it is done by joining the two with a keeper knot. The longer stiff handle adds greater leverage, and the swell of the the belly means the whip doesn't start to taper down until a foot or two into the thong. With the added leverage being able to impart more initial velocity, the whip thong doesn't need to be as heavy to have the same effect at the point of the whip.
David Morgan has a new style "Classic" bullwhip where he uses three plaited bellies. I was up there a few months ago and looked at the prototype, and I am assuming he's substituted the third plaited belly for the bolsters that are usually in there. It didn't look significantly different in size or shape from his usual one.
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binkmeisterRick
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Wow! It's good to know I posed a good question! Sometimes it's difficult knowing whether something has been previously asked or not. Uou guys are giving fantastic responses. I had no clue that there was so much behind what I was asking.
I'm going to try to recap some things, to make sure I've got this striaght:
So if I'm processing things correctly in my K-Mart second of a brain, a double belly will add more weight, giving the whip more momentum, which aids in ease of cracking... A double belly can also add strength to where the rest of the whip connects to the thong and handle. A double belly can also help the whip to retain a smoother shape, since there's more leather to the whip.
Smaller whips do not always benefit from a second belly because of the shorter length to whip taper ratio. Just because a whip has only one belly doesn't necessarily mean that it will be less "stiff" than its double bellied brother. The action and flow of the whip is not necessarilly dictated by belly construction, other than the obvious difference in physical weight.
Did I get it right?
bink
I'm going to try to recap some things, to make sure I've got this striaght:
So if I'm processing things correctly in my K-Mart second of a brain, a double belly will add more weight, giving the whip more momentum, which aids in ease of cracking... A double belly can also add strength to where the rest of the whip connects to the thong and handle. A double belly can also help the whip to retain a smoother shape, since there's more leather to the whip.
Smaller whips do not always benefit from a second belly because of the shorter length to whip taper ratio. Just because a whip has only one belly doesn't necessarily mean that it will be less "stiff" than its double bellied brother. The action and flow of the whip is not necessarilly dictated by belly construction, other than the obvious difference in physical weight.
Did I get it right?
bink