Old timer playing catch up - Wested 919/cking/80's vs Hero/Legacy vs Raiders standard?

[TomSpinaDesigns]

Hey all!

Apologies ahead of time for the long post. I did some searching before posting but since I'm seeing some conflicting info, I figured a new discussion may be worth a go.

Been a long time since my last post! Some folks may remember me as "...whiskey?" back in the day. I've been looking to pick up a new Wested and realized my last purchase was over 20 years ago!

Around that time, the “Chris King/919/80’s cut” was considered the trimmer fit than the standard offering at the time. I checked in with Chris and he had the same recollection, though we're both a bit out of the loop now!

Around the year 2000, I purchased two standard Wested Raiders jackets. First a size 40 (good fit, but a little snug across the chest/shoulders) and then a 42 (great across the shoulders, a little loose in the belly and sleeves.) I wore the 42 for quite a while. Always got compliments on the jacket, especially from folks who had no idea it was an Indy jacket

The fit never felt just-right though. I remember seeing fellow COW forumite Rabbittooth at a con or prop party and trying on his size 42 “80’s cut” and sure enough, that fit great!

So when I started researching again, I saw some folks here suggesting the 80’s cut may be the same as the new Wested hero/legacy, except for the looser collar.

But then I read a blog Wested did ( https://westedleatherco.wordpress.com/2 ... s-edition/ ) and the description, and the comp pics especially, threw me. It reads as if the hero is a looser fit than the standard. I was under the impression the hero was similar to the 80’s cut and thus slimmer than the standard but looks baggier/longer in the pics.

So basically, I'm wondering how the fit differs on the following:

Raiders standard from around 2000

919/cking/80's pattern (and is that even a thing any more?)

Hero/Legacy in 2022 (assuming those are the same cut)

Wested Standard Raiders in 2022

I'd greatly appreciate any insights. Thanks for giving a look!

Tom

[xmasters]

The patterns now are different to what they were doing 20 years ago. The legacy patterns are screen accurate for fit and hardware.

The three jackets are very different from each other now, in fit and look, long gone are the days when the ToD jacket was made an inch longer than the Raiders and that was the only difference, lol.

The non legacy/hero jackets (with the exception of ToD) are different patterns for an easier more standard off the rack fit, also less screen accurate. Hope that helps.

[TomSpinaDesigns]

Thanks for that.

Certainly accuracy of each, current and past, will vary considerably, but I suppose that's a question for another thread

I figured the 20 year old patterns would be different from the more modern ones. Makes sense.

The comparison of the fit between the modern and the past would be great to put together and a help for those of us looking to purchase a new jacket, but with only the old ones as a reference point for fit.

[xmasters]

I'm not familiar with the patterns from 20 years ago. Although it had been claimed they were taken from the movie patterns, it was a guessing game with fans helping out. It wasn't until 2008 when a couple of screen used jackets became available and could be copied that things changed considerably. The Wested Hero patterns now, will fit a person as if they have the build and proportions of Harrison Ford in each respective movie, so how well they fit the average person, will vary. I would say it probably helps if you're 5'9 -6'1 with an average or slim build. One thing I'll suggest is that if you want a slim fit jacket, Temple of Doom is the one to order. The other two are a bit roomy around the mid section.

[belloq]

Hi Tom, it's good to see you getting back into Indy gear. I also have not been as gear-focused in recent years, but have kept an eye on the findings and offerings out there. Like you I purchased my initial gear over 20 years ago- Wested, Alden, Morgan, MBA, Keppler, etc. I'm sure you already have looked into other threads here, but when I finally dive back into acquiring an updated jacket, I will seriously consider the customized offerings by Bill Kelso Mfg. and Steele and Jones. Both vendors have been covered here extensively and other jacket experts here have deep knowledge of all of the vendors, and I'm sure they will chime in with detailed advice.

[xmasters]

Yes it's definitely worth lookimg at other vendors such as Steele & Jones and Bill Kelso. Magnoli also do a decent premium custom jacket.

[CM]

Thanks for that.

Certainly accuracy of each, current and past, will vary considerably, but I suppose that's a question for another thread

I figured the 20 year old patterns would be different from the more modern ones. Makes sense.

The comparison of the fit between the modern and the past would be great to put together and a help for those of us looking to purchase a new jacket, but with only the old ones as a reference point for fit.

The great thing today is the jackets available are actually based on measurements taken from originals. I bought a Wested LC back in 2002 and it was just an inaccurate Raiders jacket with snaps. The ToD available then was just an inaccurate Raiders with an extra inch. Pockets and collars (where the notable difference between each movie jacket pattern sits) seemed to be ignored. I was never a stitch Nazi but it did irritate me that Wested didn't seem to work towards a standardised accuracy until Nowak came on the scene. I seem to remember Peter patterning a Raiders based on a Nowak Raiders (based on copying a film archive jacket, apparently).

Those early inaccurate Wested jackets do have their own charm however.

By now the LC, ToD and Raiders jackets have all been carefully measured and accurate copies are available. Wested's ToD is pretty good (Peter did have access to the Noel Howard ToD jacket to copy). I remember him saying that he had not made this ToD jacket. He was very intrigued by the internal armpit gusset. I own a Wested ToD copy of this jacket.

Wested still struggles with its pocket flaps it seems to me. The original film used jackets in almost every photo I have seen show that the pocket flap itself is a little wider than the actual pocket on both the Raiders and LC jackets (not the ToD). The Wested jackets all seem to have flaps that are flush with the pocket itself, which looks a bit odd to me. Having the pocket flaps a little wider than the pocket itself is an important part of the look.

[TomSpinaDesigns]

Appreciate all the feedback. I am aware of the other makers out there and do appreciate those suggestions. There are definitely a ton of threads debating accuracy.

For this thread, I'm curious about fit of modern Wested options, especially in relation to those older patterns.

Hoping there are some folks out there who know the old jackets and have seen/tried some of the newer ones to compare.

Thanks again all!

Tom

[CM]

Appreciate all the feedback. I am aware of the other makers out there and do appreciate those suggestions. There are definitely a ton of threads debating accuracy.

For this thread, I'm curious about fit of modern Wested options, especially in relation to those older patterns.

Hoping there are some folks out there who know the old jackets and have seen/tried some of the newer ones to compare.

Thanks again all!

Tom

For what it's worth (and this may interest others) the new ToD (I have a 42) fits trim compared to the old ones. I am six two and 185 pounds. The old Westeds from the early naughties appeared roomier, probably because of the oversized, 1980's style shoulder width. My 42 was 23 inches across. My modern ToD is 20 inches across the shoulders. (An A2 from the wartime era would be around 18 inches across. Period jackets were trim, especially in the shoulder.) The Indy jacket has the characteristic '80's dropped shoulder seam which I don't much like, so I am pleased with the new ToD.

In the early 2000's I'm pretty sure that all three Indy jacket variations Wested made had the same body pattern and fit - that's certainly what I experienced when I compared my LC to a ToD and Raiders from the period. Peter told me that the differences were just in the added snaps (LC) and extra inch of length (ToD). The King jacket pattern you had to request.

I know you haven't asked this, and this may be a digression for you, but to get a good fit, your best bet is to understand what your key measurements are - 1) chest pit-to-pit ( across under the armpits) (I'm 23 inches; 2) back length (I'm 26 inches); 3) sleeve length (26 inches) and 4) shoulders , I prefer no more than 20 inches. Then I just contact the maker and see which jacket size best corresponds to my key measurements. In Wested this is usually a 42, although Wested sleeve lengths are little short for me - 25 inches in all the 42's I have owned from them.

[rbxb]

Appreciate all the feedback. I am aware of the other makers out there and do appreciate those suggestions. There are definitely a ton of threads debating accuracy.

For this thread, I'm curious about fit of modern Wested options, especially in relation to those older patterns.

Hoping there are some folks out there who know the old jackets and have seen/tried some of the newer ones to compare.

Thanks again all!

Tom

......... to get a good fit, your best bet is to understand what your key measurements are - 1) chest pit-to-pit ( across under the armpits) (I'm 23 inches; 2) back length (I'm 26 inches); 3) sleeve length (26 inches) and 4) shoulders , I prefer no more than 20 inches. Then I just contact the maker and see which jacket size best corresponds to my key measurements. In Wested this is usually a 42, although Wested sleeve lengths are little short for me - 25 inches in all the 42's I have owned from them.

Great info! I'm 6', 208lbs about to order a TOD Wested cant decide to Legacy or not. I like the smaller pockets, I'm selling my other Raiders jackets to fund a new one.
I've concluded after much research (again) that I'm a 19" -20" shoulder with a 24.5" - 25" sleeve, 25 " back and a 23"-24" pit to pit..