Putting the "Action" back in the Action Pleats

[noctisariel]

Let me get one thing straight - I love my Wested HERO jacket. The fit, the leather grain, the craftsmanship - all top notch. But after wearing my jacket for a couple months, it started to develop the dreaded billowing of the action pleats. Now I understand that the original film jacket didn't feature the interior elastic that is typically applied to remedy this issue, but I've never been one to sacrifice functionality for screen accuracy.

For my fellow Indy's who've been frustrated by this same issue on their Wested jackets, I want to share a solution I came up with that ended up working beautifully.

Rather than having a tailor apply a single, narrow band of elastic - I did some digging on Amazon and found this incredibly strong elastic that comes in a 7-7/8" roll. This allowed me to essentially create an interior panel made entirely out of elastic so that the pleats could be pulled uniformly along their length - not just at the stress-point where a normal 1-2" band would be sewn. Plus, you don't feel the elastic beneath the lining like you do with a smaller band.

Here is what my jacket looked like before the alteration...


Here is the elastic I used...


And here is how the action pleats look after the modification...






If any of you are looking to try this out on your own, the elastic can be found on Amazon here: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a short video demonstrating the strength of the elastic and how the action pleats immediately pull back into position after stretching...
https://youtu.be/fuC4vWXL_jc

[Michaelson]

Nicely done!

That said, may I play devil's advocate for just a second?

Why are your side straps cinched so tight?

The side straps were never intended to 'adjust' for size, but were put there to keep the side slit from gapping open, as well as keeping the action pleats from blowing out. If you loosened the straps so the jacket hangs straight, the pleats stay closed with the action of the regular elastic strap usually sewn in the lining.

Where you have the straps cinched tight and the new elastic installed to keep the pleats closed, if you look closely, you can see you have now have created a stress point at the x-box connection at the front where the strap is sewn to the jacket. Keep your eye on that area, as after a period of wear, that box could tear. I've seen it happen on thinner hides like lambskin when the side straps were used that way and a hole rips through.

All that aside, to pardon the pun, your plan of 'action' does indeed remove the blown out 'flying squirrel' that a pleat can become, but also just keep an eye on those stress areas now with those tightly cinched side straps.

Just a word to the wise.

Regards! Michaelson

[noctisariel]

Thanks for the feedback Michaelson! You've quite the keen eye - I definitely did not notice the new stress point I had created at the box stitching. Great catch.

I originally cinched the straps a little tighter to help further contribute to that tapered/heroic silhouette - especially when the jacket is worn open. Frankly, I always hated how far the jacket hung off my lower back when the straps were overly relaxed, which felt particularly apparent with the already cropped length of the jacket. With that said, your point is well taken and I'm definitely going to try loosening those straps up just a touch to reduce that new stress point I've created.

[Michaelson]

You’re very welcome. This is something that comes up on occasion and it’s always good to bring it back up every now and again.

Just to be open, Peter Botwright is the original source of the strap discussion back in the 90’s as he was getting jacket returns from folks with holes where they had ripped the straps out of the side by using the straps as sizing cinches, which was not what they were designed to do.

It was one pet peeve he’d tell me about all the time!

The heavier leather like cowhide and goat skin seemed to resist tearing, but some lambskin ripped right out.

Anyway, glad I could be of assistance!

Regards! Michaelson

[Indiana Croft]

I have a question.

How do you go about installing the elastic.

I mean do you have to open a seam or something?
Can you give a best you can description of how you did it or did a tailor do it.

Croft

[noctisariel]

Hi Indiana Croft,

Really wish I could have photo documented my tailors process, but I'll do my best to articulate what was done.

So yes - you do have to open a seam at the side of the liner in order to access the interior and be able to stitch the elastic to leather.

The elastic was installed just below the upper shoulder panel (right where the action pleats start) and ends just above the side adjusters.

The great thing about this particular elastic is that it only stretches side-to-side, not up-and-down. So you don't feel the width of the panel contract when it's stretched.

[xmasters]

A jacket I own that has so far maintained it's pleats after two years. My Bill Kelso Grail jacket.

[Michaelson]

So has my Gibson and Barnes Expedition after 20 years.

Regards! Michaelson

[donovan]

The 'Expedition' action pleats probably rate the best in my experience - they truly are functional with the lining incorporating the 'pleat action' as well

[noctisariel]

A jacket I own that has so far maintained it's pleats after two years. My Bill Kelso Grail jacket.

You're so lucky to own one of these beauties! I want one so bad.

[ltfoley]

that's good work! So, you opened the lining to sew the elastic inside? I don't picture how you achieved that

[Indiana Croft]

Another quick question, when you put this elastic inside the jacket liner.

Do you feel it while wearing the jacket.

Croft

[noctisariel]

that's good work! So, you opened the lining to sew the elastic inside? I don't picture how you achieved that

Yes exactly. The elastic is inside of the jacket - between the lining and the leather. It's hard to articulate without being able to reopen up my jacket and show you, but the elastic panel starts just below the horizontal seam by the shoulder blades and ends just above the side straps. It's stitched to the interior of the action pleats on each side of the jacket so that the pleats always have tension on them and are kept closed until stretched. Hope that makes sense!

[noctisariel]

Another quick question, when you put this elastic inside the jacket liner.

Do you feel it while wearing the jacket.

Croft

Not at all! That's the great thing about this super wide elastic I found. It essentially creates a full back panel so you're much less aware of the edges. My Magnoli Raiders jacket has the more common 1-2" wide elastic band, and you definitely feel it.

[Indiana Croft]

Another question (or two )
Once you’ve opened the seam, I get it that you attach it to just below the top and it ends up just above the side star area.

So if you look at the, there’s a seam that bring the two pieces together.

? Is the where your Taylor attached the elastic, and how much did he/she charge you.
My two S&J pleats do tend to pucker some and it’s does annoy me some, I think my next S&J will have a request for the pleats to be deeper.

Croft

[noctisariel]

Hi Indiana Croft,

Sorry, it's challenging to articulate this process with only words. I'm not quite sure I'm following your question. The elastic is only stitched in two locations - the interior of the action pleat on the left, and the interior of the action pleat on the right. When I say interior, I mean the seam of the action pleat that is hidden underneath the jacket's back panel - not the one my finger is touching in the photo.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59832861@N07/51029414806/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[noctisariel]

Oh, and my tailor charged $60 for this work. Not exactly cheap, but definitely worth the money to make sure the job is done right. I suggest finding an experienced tailor who works on leather.

[Indiana Croft]

Ya it can be tough to describe. But yes that’s the area I was thinking it’d be attached to.
When I feel the leather through the liner you can feel some excess leather, I’m assuming this is wear he stitched it to.

If you say this two lines to the left is the pleat, I’m saying he attached it to the high point. /\

Does that make sense.

Croft

[Indiana Croft]

Another question.
When you zip up your jacket, do feel as the material has to stretch and then you feel it more.

Going to a seamstress this Thursday 18th, seems promising.

Croft

[Indiana Croft]

Well the visit with the seamstress is later today, but I wanted to share pictures of my action pleats.
These are both S&J
First is my go to jacket Truck Chase.



Then ToD



Now I don't know if it's just my body type, but pleats just seem to always open up like this.
If it goes the conversation goes well today, I'll order up the elastic band and let her do her thing.
Croft

[noctisariel]

Hey Croft!

Beautiful looking couple of jackets you have there! But yeah - those action pleats are looking pretty blown out. I definitely think your jackets would benefit from the elastic that I had installed in mine.

To answer your question...

No, you don't really feel the elastic. Because the elastic is basically an entire panel, you don't really feel the edges like you would on the more typical 1-2" wide elastics that are commonly used. And as I've mentioned before, I think this is better for the action pleats over time because they are being pulled over their entire length, not just a small stress point.

When I wear my jacket closed, the fit feels so much better to me. It feels like the jacket is hugging me and moving with my body when I stretch my arms out.

Best of luck with your alterations! Hope your tailor does a great job on the work.

[noctisariel]

Another word of advice...

My tailor was very experienced with this sort of modification and cut the elastic panel about a 1/2" smaller than the distance between the action pleats when they're completely closed. This basically gave the elastic a constant, small amount of tension to help account for any loss of the stretching ability as the elastic wears out. When I lay my jacket flat on a table, you can see that the action pleats are being pulled in just ever so slightly - about a 1/4" on each side. Hope that makes sense!

[Indiana Croft]

It does thank you noctisariel.
I went to the seamstress and had a very nice conversation.
She has experience as she make clothing as well.

So I will pass along your comment about the 1/2” smaller. One of her concerns about it was the back panel trying to lift out from tension, she has a similar material other than elastic (i will ask for more specifics when I send her your info) that she’s going to use. She’s perty confident.

While I was there she actually opened up the seam, no I didn’t faint. So where the pleat come together on the inside is where she’ll attach her material.

But I’m going one step further. She’s going to create a “how to” meaning she’s going to give me/us a step by step. With pictures.
She’ll create a link to it as she uses this a teaching platform as well.

It’ll be ready not this Saturday, but the Saturday after.

If this goes well, I’ll hand over my precious truck chase.
She was very impressed with the quality of the jackets and was sorta shocked to learn Diego does the stressing prior to construction.

Now let us pray.

Croft

[noctisariel]

Man, that's all wonderful news! Nothing better than having a tailor you can truly trust. And that is fantastic news that she is willing to document the process so people here can get a better understanding of how this is done. Definitely something I wish I would have had the foresight to ask mine to do.

I've still never been able to appreciate the S&J truck chase jacket in person, but it is truly unbelievable to think he does all that distressing prior to stitching. Very smart though, and the final result would never suggest that were the case.

Be sure to follow up and let us know how it goes. And best of luck!

[Indiana Croft]

Oh I will.
I found an old post, I this=no the second page someone actually has a picture of the inside shadowing a narrow band, mine will have the wider band like yours, as these narrow bands I feel as thorough I’d feel em, ya know.

Croft

[Indiana Croft]

Jacket is back in my hands and I’m very happy to say, the action is back in the action.

But the how to video is ready yet, but once it is I’m going to start a similar thread in hopes that its worthy of a sticky.
It’s going to show how she did it.
She also mention it was very easy. For her, nerve tacky for us.

Croft

[Trenin]

Please forgive my ignorance on this topic. Is it more screen accurate to have the pleats blown out?

[Michaelson]

Yep, but that's not the point.....

Regards! Michaelson

[Tibor]

[noctisariel]

Croft! Happy to hear the jacket is back and you're happy with the alteration. Always such a relief when your tailor pulls off a job on such a prized possession. Please share pics when you have the time.

[noctisariel]

And just want to second Michaelson - who I totally agree with. Yes, the film jacket had blown out pleats, but achieving screen accuracy down to these sorts of details (or flaws) isn't everyone's primary ambition.

[Tibor]

Absolutely agree... to each their own.

[The_Edge]

I have a Gibson & Barnes goat skin Expedition from 2002 that I still wear regularly and the pleats work perfectly. The jacket is also aging beautifully. I recently went on G&B website for the first time in literally years and was surprised & saddened they no longer offered the Expedition. An awesome jacket all around.

Kyle

[Illinois_Jones]

I have a Gibson & Barnes goat skin Expedition from 2002 that I still wear regularly and the pleats work perfectly. The jacket is also aging beautifully. I recently went on G&B website for the first time in literally years and was surprised & saddened they no longer offered the Expedition. An awesome jacket all around.

Kyle

Yeah, I love my Expedition. One of my hopes is that the new film piques enough interest to generate a market that G&B can't pass up and they start making it again.

[Michaelson]

I have a Gibson & Barnes goat skin Expedition from 2002 that I still wear regularly and the pleats work perfectly. The jacket is also aging beautifully. I recently went on G&B website for the first time in literally years and was surprised & saddened they no longer offered the Expedition. An awesome jacket all around.

Kyle

Can you believe we’ve been wearing these things for almost 20 years or more!?

Regards! Michaelson

[Cajunkraut]

Yeah, I love my Expedition. One of my hopes is that the new film piques enough interest to generate a market that G&B can't pass up and they start making it again.

And in veg-tanned goat please, G&B...

[Michaelson]

When Dave Marshall left, almost all the cutters and pattern people also left, so the chances of the Expedition being resurrected are slim to none, according to the G&B management.

Regards! Michaelson

[The_Edge]

Can you believe we’ve been wearing these things for almost 20 years or more!?

Regards! Michaelson

It's amazing. I hope to be wearing mine for the rest of my days because I don't think I'll ever see a 'Raiders' style jacket this good again.

[The_Edge]

When Dave Marshall left, almost all the cutters and pattern people also left, so the chances of the Expedition being resurrected are slim to none, according to the G&B management.

Regards! Michaelson

Sad. I didn't realize Dave was not there anymore. I've been out of this game for quite sometime but I check in every once in a while. Saddened to see Lee Keppler, Peter Botwright and David Morgan gone. No G&B jacket. So many of the OG Indyfan and early IndyGear folks have moved on. Those that put in so much time, energy and research into things like jacket pocket shapes, action pleats, measurements of everything, hat blocks, MKVII bag surplus, etc. And all I did was benefit from their hard work but I miss those days. Exciting days. My goatskin G&B Expedition is a direct result of those days and I'm still just as happy with it. Needs a new lining but other than that it only seems to get better with each year.

Kyle

[Illinois_Jones]

When Dave Marshall left, almost all the cutters and pattern people also left, so the chances of the Expedition being resurrected are slim to none, according to the G&B management.

Regards! Michaelson

Yeah, I remember. I'm such a stickler about durability that my Expedition was always my go-to. We can always hope, though.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Nicely done!

That said, may I play devil's advocate for just a second?

Why are your side straps cinched so tight?

The side straps were never intended to 'adjust' for size, but were put there to keep the side slit from gapping open, as well as keeping the action pleats from blowing out. If you loosened the straps so the jacket hangs straight, the pleats stay closed with the action of the regular elastic strap usually sewn in the lining.

Where you have the straps cinched tight and the new elastic installed to keep the pleats closed, if you look closely, you can see you have now have created a stress point at the x-box connection at the front where the strap is sewn to the jacket. Keep your eye on that area, as after a period of wear, that box could tear. I've seen it happen on thinner hides like lambskin when the side straps were used that way and a hole rips through.

All that aside, to pardon the pun, your plan of 'action' does indeed remove the blown out 'flying squirrel' that a pleat can become, but also just keep an eye on those stress areas now with those tightly cinched side straps.

Just a word to the wise.

Regards! Michaelson

Thanks for this Michaelson. I too have always believed that the straps were to cause the bottom of the jacket to ‘fit’ the body, when the jacket is done up. In fact, when I bought from Wested, I was told to just do them up ‘where you want them’.

I’ve not had any elastic placed placed in my jacket, and I can only assume that ‘some’ was put in when it was made. Will I too face the possibility of ripping off the straps if I have the straps set, so it ‘fits’ at the bottom? If so I assume I lay the jacket flat and do them up, such that the pleats are flat and parallel with the straps done up only to that point?

I thank you for your time and don’t want to ‘hijack’ the thread. The jacket looks awesome and I’ll be very interested to see the ‘how too’ video.

[Michaelson]

To answer your question, it depends on how the straps are anchored. The straps that are 'X' box anchored are the strongest and will probably hold if cinched tight over a long period of time, but why chance it?

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

Last I spoke with someone at G&B, they said that their leather cutting techs had moved south and were working in Mexico.

I knew they had been working together for many years.

[Arch Stanton]

I just now noticed that my White Label Magnoli Adventure Jacket has these straps sewn in there. I didn't know they were even there until I was fiddling around with it and felt them. I can't notice them when it's being worn. Since it's White Label then these must be standard for Magnoli jackets. That's pretty cool.