Differences between ABL Crystal Skull and Young Indy

[IJJTM]

Hey guys, ever since I got my ABL CS I’ve had a sneaking suspicion that it might’ve been a young Indy, but I’m just not sure. What defining features besides the bash would you guys say sets them apart?

[backstagejack]

Pretty positive the young indy didn't have a dimensional brim and had a different size ribbon. I can't remember but it might have had a larger brim as well to make it look big on "young" indy. Supposedly it was an off the shelf HJ poet 3" brim

that is of course when we'e not talking about the horribly beat up versions or when he wore it backwards.

Why would you think your AB CS would be a Young Indy? I don't know the specs of an AB CS but I can only imagine it has all the traditional traits of a normal movie indy hat. According to the main site, Most were a standard 2 3/4" x 2 1/2" brim width with several others requested to have a 2 7/8" x 2 5/8" brim width.

Have you asked the person you purchased it from about it?


http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... Young+Indy

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67395

[IJJTM]

Well, I purchased it directly from Penman, and I got it during his last batch that Anna handled. I'm just wondering if a mix-up was made or something, or maybe I just need to rebash it and if that's the case I'm open to suggestions. It hits the 2 3/4" x 2 1/2" brim width marks, but I'm not sure about the ribbon height. The only 100% difference I can tell is that the middle of the ribbon is vertically creased on a YIJ, while it isn't on a CS. Here are some comparison photos, I'd include some ABL CS pictures, but John never did a photoshoot of it and instead reused his Penman CS pictures from 2010.

Here it is right out of the box, very loosely pinched.


Here it is today after some rebashing.


Here's an ABL Young Indy


And here's a comparison of the side ribbon.

[Illinois_Jones]

Well what size is your head?

The thing about Indy hats, or any hat for that matter, is that the size can affect the look and dimensions of the hat especially relative to the ribbon. I've taken some flak on here before about this where some people were complaining their HJ crown looked too high except they were also like a 60+ head size and the hatter's attempt to keep the height and width ratio aesthetically pleasing could make the crown look too high because the correct ribbon only comes in one width. The same rings true if you're under ~57 except the crown will start to look short.

It likely got distorted in shipping, but yes, it kinda looks maybe .25" too short if you are a 58-59.

[IJJTM]

I’m a size 22 7/8 which to my knowledge is the size they made for Ford, but I ordered a 22 6/8.

On a different note does anyone know how wide the ribbon on CS hats were?

[jlee562]

I can't prove it for fact, but I believe AB/Penman sourced from TW Bracher in the UK, same as HJ currently uses. Penman claimed to have a proprietary rayon ribbon made. Steve mentioned the supplier was European.

I'm not sure but I think that it. 100% rayon.

Yeah, LLS had it analyzed at Schiff. Pure rayon is what we use John. Which is one reason it costs more, but still, it's ludicrous what these folks charge!! It'a a racket IMO. A rip off, not for the ribbon, but for its price! I reckon they know its the ribbon used on the HJ hat supplied to the other Indy films, and use that as the reason. That is the only reason that makes sense. Even my collection of vintage ribbon was cheaper, and it was pretty high. But, glad we can source it. Heck, I don't even know who makes it in Europe. I just tell Marc when I need more and he ships it to me.

Assuming HJ has been using the same supplier all this time (which to be sure is a big assumption), if AB found that supplier, it's TW Bracher's 38mm ribbon.

Here's Steve's post on his YIJ model:
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?p=655829#p655829" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2 7/8 non dimensional brim, 1 7/8" ribbon.

The ribbon isn't creased, it's folded over onto itself so what you're seeing in the middle is the finished edge of the ribbon. But it also looks like at least one of the YIJ bows was done that way:

[The Aviator]

Hello there

38mm on the movie hats, I can’t remember exactly on the YIJC without doing a search but somewhere close to 50mm, or maybe slightly under. I owned one years ago but sold to a fellow member. Brim is 3 inches with no dimensional cut.

But that sir is bang on KOTCS and a beaut. If you are on the younger and slimmer side the brim and crown height will appear exaggerated. It does take some getting used to.

Best

Gerry

[Illinois_Jones]

I’m a size 22 7/8 which to my knowledge is the size they made for Ford, but I ordered a 22 6/8.

On a different note does anyone know how wide the ribbon on CS hats were?

Huh. Well you are the right size.

It should be a 38mm ribbon. Is the center dent too deep? Get a tape measure and check the front height. Should be at least 4.5". Check the ribbon width, etc. It does *look* a bit low. Get the tape measure out and check. Pop the crown out and make sure it's at least 5.5".

Something definitely seems off, so check the numbers. My guess either it was crowned too low or a wider ribbon was used for some reason. If the numbers check out then I don't know; optical illusion?

[IJJTM]

Popped out it hits the 5.5 mark really nicely, I think I just need to rebash it, so what’re the front and back creased specs and do I need any other specs for it?

[Illinois_Jones]

The front should be about 4.5", about 3" between the ribbon and top of the pinch. The middle by the bow should be about 4.75-5" and the back slightly lower than the front.

When you rebash it just make sure the center dent isn't too deep. It's a common mistake people make. It's not a Raiders so you don't have to worry about squishing it down with the front pinch.

[IJJTM]

Hey guys, I rebashed the hat a while ago and I no longer fear that it's a Young Indy. I'd really appreciate some constructive criticism on the rebash.

[backstagejack]

I'm no expert but that looks pretty good to me. Nice looking lid

[Illinois_Jones]

Yeah that definitely looks better. Was the center dent too deep and not slightly angled toward the back? That's a common thing you see when people first bash something like a Fed. The CS is a very loose and shallow bash.

[IJJTM]

Yeah, the main think I did was pull out the top bash a bit more to hit the 4.5 inch spec as close as I could.

[Thunderspy]

If anyone is interested in the Young Indy hat, you can buy an original screen-used one here (p136):

https://content.propstore.com/auction/e ... n=emlauk21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://propstoreauction.com/m/lot-deta ... tnum%3D190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only £6,000 - £8,000, which is probably a bit of a bargain for a real Indy hat!

[IJJTM]

Ooo, so it 100% was an HJ.

[The Aviator]

That’s interesting I wouldn’t have expected an Old Burlington Street liner with the blue crest, maybe one that was left over…

Maybe we could club together for a timeshare?

Cheers

Gerry