Is Herbert Johnson the holy grail of indy fedoras now?

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:03 am

Have any other 40th hats arrived to COW members yet? Curious to see more reviews!

Dr. Jones, Jr. · Post by **Dr. Jones, Jr.** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:08 pm

Chose Poorly wrote:Have any other 40th hats arrived to COW members yet? Curious to see more reviews!

Same

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:55 pm

I’m still waiting on the shipping email.

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Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:12 am

Still no 40th hats to be celebrated? Making me wonder if HJ is facing delays, or if very few were actually ordered…

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:07 pm

Good question!

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:10 pm

I was delayed in ordering mine, so it’s still quite a ways off. Michelle told me recently that there’s currently a 14 week lead time, so it certainly doesn’t sound like there’s a lack of interest. With that said, I’m very interested to see some pics!

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Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:51 pm

Not my video, found from a HJ facebook group.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:38 pm

Is this the 40th.
If it is, it’s to dark. And I hate these kinda of videos where they don’t put it on so we can see how it looks.
Kinda a hard pass for me.
My old HJ will be my only HJ

Croft

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:50 am

Hedji wrote:Not my video, found from a HJ facebook group.

That’s the video tubasthebest posted for us here on the forum when he received his hat.

Indiana Croft wrote:Is this the 40th.
If it is, it’s to dark. And I hate these kinda of videos where they don’t put it on so we can see how it looks.
Kinda a hard pass for me.
My old HJ will be my only HJ

Croft

If you watch a few second passed him pulling the hat out of the box he adjusts the lighting on his camera. Either way, it’s just their current deep sable felt, not anything special for the 40th. So if you think HJ deep sable is too dark, the 40th will be too dark.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:54 am

Indiana_Nate wrote:I was delayed in ordering mine, so it’s still quite a ways off. Michelle told me recently that there’s currently a 14 week lead time, so it certainly doesn’t sound like there’s a lack of interest. With that said, I’m very interested to see some pics!

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I was quoted the same. Ordered a hat recently and was told early next year, which aligns with 14 weeks.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:57 am

I placed an order early August and was given a lead of 13 weeks, and also sent a hat in to get reblocked last week and was given a 14 week lead time.

So they are consistently busy, but a wait of 13-14 weeks is nothing compared to the amount of time I’ve waited in the past.

Gerry

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:32 am

Chose Poorly wrote: That’s the video tubasthebest posted for us here on the forum when he received his hat.

Thank you for responding to this. I thought it was funny to see my video posted again half a page after I posted it.

Indiana Croft wrote:Is this the 40th.
If it is, it’s to dark. And I hate these kinda of videos where they don’t put it on so we can see how it looks.
Kinda a hard pass for me.
My old HJ will be my only HJ

Croft

Croft, if you go back a few posts in this thread I posted multiple photos of how it looks. These were posted shortly after I posted the video.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:29 pm

tubasthebest wrote:
Chose Poorly wrote: That’s the video tubasthebest posted for us here on the forum when he received his hat.
Thank you for responding to this. I thought it was funny to see my video posted again half a page after I posted it.

Indiana Croft wrote:Is this the 40th.
If it is, it’s to dark. And I hate these kinda of videos where they don’t put it on so we can see how it looks.
Kinda a hard pass for me.
My old HJ will be my only HJ

Croft
Croft, if you go back a few posts in this thread I posted multiple photos of how it looks. These were posted shortly after I posted the video.

Herbert Johnson also reposted your video review on their social channels, which I’m sure you saw.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:23 pm

Chose Poorly wrote:
Herbert Johnson also reposted your video review on their social channels, which I’m sure you saw.

Woah! Thanks for letting me know. I had no idea, as I'm not on any of the usual social media sites.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:57 pm

tubasthebest wrote:
Chose Poorly wrote:
Herbert Johnson also reposted your video review on their social channels, which I’m sure you saw.
Woah! Thanks for letting me know. I had no idea, as I'm not on any of the usual social media sites.

Well they technically should have asked you first, not that anybody on COW would mind I assume. Your’s is only one of two reviews I’ve seen since the release. Other than thecoolmeister and Nate, I haven’t heard about a lot of orders of 40th hats. As mentioned, the 13-14 week lead time is somewhat standard, but I was also told that they received a lot of orders this year and are still behind on production due to diminished staff and shipping delays. Still playing COVID catch-up.

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:22 pm

Sorry, tubasthebest, I had forgotten I had seen it here first on the previous page, but for some reason, not seeing it formatted with the youtube code, my brain jumbled whether I'd seen it here or on facebook. Anyways, happy to re-share it.

Illinois_Jones · Post by **Illinois_Jones** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:33 pm

Well given we're now 13-14 weeks from the release in mid June it makes sense they're just getting out to customers now. The lead times seem pretty consistent; a year ago they were still like 3 months. They're a larger operation than most custom hatters which are effectively one man operations and they have several hatters and apprentices working, and having a lead time over about 90 days is likely bad for business, so I imagine they work hard to keep it consistent.

As far as the popularity of the anniversary hat, I don't know. I do know there was a level of deflation on the forums given the price and that it's just a rabbit felt. As nice as the hat box is -- and TBH HJ should have *always* come with boxes -- it just doesn't seem enough of a value add for the price. Especially since you could get a regular custom in the same felt for considerably less.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:37 pm

Sometimes you can overprice 'provenance'.

I also wonder if the wind was knocked out of the sails (sales?

) when Ford injured himself and all things 'Indy' kind of came to a screeching stop in the hobby?

Let's face it, we had a hurricane of discussion going on for while a while until that occurred, including the 40th discussions.....then, bang....nothing!

Regards! Michaelson

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:12 pm

Illinois_Jones wrote:Well given we're now 13-14 weeks from the release in mid June it makes sense they're just getting out to customers now. The lead times seem pretty consistent; a year ago they were still like 3 months. They're a larger operation than most custom hatters which are effectively one man operations and they have several hatters and apprentices working, and having a lead time over about 90 days is likely bad for business, so I imagine they work hard to keep it consistent.

As far as the popularity of the anniversary hat, I don't know. I do know there was a level of deflation on the forums given the price and that it's just a rabbit felt. As nice as the hat box is -- and TBH HJ should have *always* come with boxes -- it just doesn't seem enough of a value add for the price. Especially since you could get a regular custom in the same felt for considerably less.

Agree. I didn't get the impression that it was all that well received, especially considering all the buzz leading up to the release. It felt like people were overwhelmed by the price and underwhelmed by the extras. On top of that, you're talking about a special edition package built around a hat that they don't customize, so if you don't want the SoC shape, or if you wanted sable instead of deep sable, you're out of luck. I imagine anyone in the market for a hat from HJ would opt for something else unless the 40th hat matched everything they were looking for in an Indy hat and they really wanted a folding box and keychain. Even the voucher (with an expiration date) feels a bit useless for anyone who already saved to splurge on one HJ hat.

Case and point (at least for me), I decided I wanted an HJ but opted for their standard rabbit poet that I could have made to my own specs (shape, liner, embossing etc.) and saved a bunch of money since the box would sit in my closet, my keys at this point include a fob for my car and nothing else, and I'm certainly not going to be shelling out the money for another expensive hat from HJ within 12 months.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:07 pm

Hope you didn’t think i was bash your hat, pardon the pun.
I did see the light adjustment and it made a huge difference.

The hat is a beaut for sure, I just don’t like the HJ, now once the 40’s start popping up, who knows.

Croft

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:37 pm

I finally found out why my hat has yet to ship! They said it’s due to them waiting on more hat boxes since the one my hat is coming with and many others are described as “less than perfect” haha so I’m like to #### with the box I don’t care if the box is trash lol I just want the hat. (I didn’t say it like that of course)
So once they read my response I should finally get a dhl confirmation email

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Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:47 pm

thecoolmiester wrote:I finally found out why my hat has yet to ship! They said it’s due to them waiting on more hat boxes since the one my hat is coming with and many others are described as “less than perfect” haha so I’m like to #### with the box I don’t care if the box is trash lol I just want the hat. (I didn’t say it like that of course)
So once they read my response I should finally get a dhl confirmation email

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Wow. They should just leave the hat box out altogether and give you a partial refund!

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:13 pm

Herbert Johnson also makes great Freddy hats lol

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WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:47 pm

thecoolmiester wrote:

Herbert Johnson also makes great Freddy hats lol

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(Back up singers....) "Are you ready Freddy?"

!!

...oops! Wrong movie score

! W>

Travelsonic · Post by **Travelsonic** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:47 pm

jlee562 wrote:The reboot should not be judged by the standards of the pre-reboot hats. Those were, as confirmed by Michelle elsewhere on COW, the ones being bought in from Christy's and sold under the HJ label.

Wait, wait, wait, I've been a bit of a hermit - and am out of the loop ... so when people discovered how Christy's hats looked similar to HJ's all those years ago... at least, the so-called factory made hats, that was more than a mere coinkydink?

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:39 pm

Travelsonic wrote:
jlee562 wrote:The reboot should not be judged by the standards of the pre-reboot hats. Those were, as confirmed by Michelle elsewhere on COW, the ones being bought in from Christy's and sold under the HJ label.
Wait, wait, wait, I've been a bit of a hermit - and am out of the loop ... so when people discovered how Christy's hats looked similar to HJ's all those years ago... at least, the so-called factory made hats, that was more than a mere coinkydink?

Correct. Christy's is the main UK manufacturer of fur felt hats.

Relevant excerpt from Michelle's post:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... 05#p904605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NoBadDates wrote:Happy New Year to you all

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while as the workshop has been rather busy. Plus I have been on a wonderful trip to see 6 original Swales Indy Poets (more later)...

Ok lots of questions that I hope to answer for you by explaining the HJ Reboot origin story:

Herbert Johnson as you know has changed hands a few times and many things have changed for the brand since the times of Richard Swales and Raiders. The hatting industry in the UK has suffered badly.
HJ as you know is currently owned by Swaine Adeney Brigg. The owners and management here have been hoping for some years to move away from being the seller of one Christys made factory hat and back into being hatmakers.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:51 am

thecoolmiester wrote:

Herbert Johnson also makes great Freddy hats lol

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Loving the horror gear is that a FvJ Jason hock in the back?

bantufo · Post by **bantufo** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:53 am

Christys' Adventurer brim remains at the older 2 3/4" X 2 1/2" brim specs that the HJ sat on as default for years. Herbert Johnson modified their brim specs from 2 3/4" X 2 1/2" to be a bit wider when they went to the different hat blocks and FEPSA felt. If Christys' also made the change to the Adventurer Poet with a slightly wider brim it'd be a very close replica to the original Raiders hat also. It still looks great when styled right. But just as with the old factory HJ - longevity always a concern...

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:58 am

IJJTM wrote:
thecoolmiester wrote:

Herbert Johnson also makes great Freddy hats lol

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Loving the horror gear is that a FvJ Jason hock in the back?

Yeah buddy! It’s Freddy v Jason replica mask

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Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:13 am

First impression. Tom Cruise in Risky business and Freddy mixed together.

Love it all.

Croft

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:44 pm

Haahah! Love it.... Clearly, you have a high end glove on the wall behind you. I forgot where I got my replica, but it is incredibly satisfying with the real metal blades.

I cute an Dorfman Pacific Indiana Jones down and it makes a GREAT Freddy hat.

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:49 pm

Hedji wrote:Haahah! Love it.... Clearly, you have a high end glove on the wall behind you. I forgot where I got my replica, but it is incredibly satisfying with the real metal blades.

I cute an Dorfman Pacific Indiana Jones down and it makes a GREAT Freddy hat.

Yeah the glove in the back has real blades and a bit risky for a large gathering lol
Yeah dorfman is a good one! My old worn down christys was an option but I went with this one since it’s so fun to wear haha

These were my options.

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thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:50 pm

Indiana Croft wrote:First impression. Tom Cruise in Risky business and Freddy mixed together.

Love it all.

Croft

Hahaha yeah I see that!
I’m freddys less burned cousin; Fredward Kroger

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RonXsilva · Post by **RonXsilva** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:25 am

I ordered the 40th as well and lead times are quite long atm I talked to them a few days ago and said I'm #108 on the list and I would be lucky if I see it by December so maybe January hopfully...

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:05 pm

Do you think HJ would be open to taking an Indy V order if I went to their physical shop late December?

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:25 pm

Until it is publicly acknowledged by HJ or Disney that HJ is the hatter, I don’t think HJ will admit to anything nor take an order.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:27 pm

Maybe I could just order a hat there and by the time my number is up they’ll have announced Indy V involvement.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:35 pm

That's a possibility, though depending on the type of felt being used, ect. it may not be possible to change from one hat style to another. Worth asking in a general way that if you order one type of hat can you change it to another later.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Travelsonic · Post by **Travelsonic** » Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:27 am

jlee562 wrote:
Travelsonic wrote:
jlee562 wrote:The reboot should not be judged by the standards of the pre-reboot hats. Those were, as confirmed by Michelle elsewhere on COW, the ones being bought in from Christy's and sold under the HJ label.
Wait, wait, wait, I've been a bit of a hermit - and am out of the loop ... so when people discovered how Christy's hats looked similar to HJ's all those years ago... at least, the so-called factory made hats, that was more than a mere coinkydink?
Correct. Christy's is the main UK manufacturer of fur felt hats.

Relevant excerpt from Michelle's post:

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... 05#p904605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NoBadDates wrote:Happy New Year to you all

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while as the workshop has been rather busy. Plus I have been on a wonderful trip to see 6 original Swales Indy Poets (more later)...

Ok lots of questions that I hope to answer for you by explaining the HJ Reboot origin story:

Herbert Johnson as you know has changed hands a few times and many things have changed for the brand since the times of Richard Swales and Raiders. The hatting industry in the UK has suffered badly.
HJ as you know is currently owned by Swaine Adeney Brigg. The owners and management here have been hoping for some years to move away from being the seller of one Christys made factory hat and back into being hatmakers.

Stupid question perhaps, but would this bear any relevance to the Christy's site claiming, and I quote:

The Christys' Adventurer/Poet - is the original 'Indiana Jones' hat

Forrest For the Trees · Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:01 pm

My interpretation is that there was a period of time that the Christy's and HJ Poets were nearly identical, save for the branding. HJ felt hats hadn't been made/styled in-house for quite a while at that point. Folks were essentially paying for the brand name, whereas the Christy's could be purchased for hundreds less.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:10 pm

I think there’s a lot of credibility there, even now I think some of the UK hats are coming from the same factory with differing levels of quality.

Bates hats also have a Poet which actually looks quite good, and some of their offerings like the Bruand remind me of the old HJ advertisement with all their hats together.

https://www.bates-hats.com/pages/fedoras" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best

Gerry

Illinois_Jones · Post by **Illinois_Jones** » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:13 pm

My takeaway was that even 40 years ago that, yeah, the felts got blocked all at the same factory and then depending would then get finished by Richard Swales et al in the shop -- brim trimming, sweat, liner, ribbon, flanging, and whatever other customizations. The blocking is the most industrial and messy step, other than making the felt, obviously, so it makes sense to streamline and scale that process accordingly. Especially since there are only so many feltmakers and everyone was sourcing the same felt anyway.

But yeah, they were all basically the same hat with different levels of finish.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:29 am

AFAIK, Bates is also supplied by Christy's.

Zendragon · Post by **Zendragon** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:03 pm

I wouldn't say that they are the holy grail, but they are now a much better option than before. They have come a long way. From what I am seeing, their hats are the best that they have been since they originally made them. I do think that other makers do a better overall job and I think that has a lot to do with them being fans. There is an extra layer of passion that goes into them. People like Penman are artist as much as they are hat makers.

I am in the process of ordering one from HJ. Just because I want the name. I suspect that is how it is for many. Same for those who buy a Wested for the name. They may not be the best jacket, but there is a certain nostalgia that goes with the name.

On the note of color... they say that the dark saber is the hero accurate color. But in my conversation with them, they also noted that the regular sable looks more screen accurate depending on the light.
In this hobby we all know that "hero" accurate and "screen" accurate aren't always the same thing. Camera lens distortion and lighting, and color grading in post, can great play into what we see on screen. But hold the "hero" in your hand and it may look very different.

I will probably go dark sable. But who knows, maybe I can get them to send me a couple of swatches before I choose lol.

Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:23 pm

Zendragon wrote:I wouldn't say that they are the holy grail, but they are now a much better option than before. They have come a long way. From what I am seeing, their hats are the best that they have been since they originally made them. I do think that other makers do a better overall job and I think that has a lot to do with them being fans. There is an extra layer of passion that goes into them. People like Penman are artist as much as they are hat makers.

I am in the process of ordering one from HJ. Just because I want the name. I suspect that is how it is for many. Same for those who buy a Wested for the name. They may not be the best jacket, but there is a certain nostalgia that goes with the name.

On the note of color... they say that the dark saber is the hero accurate color. But in my conversation with them, they also noted that the regular sable looks more screen accurate depending on the light.
In this hobby we all know that "hero" accurate and "screen" accurate aren't always the same thing. Camera lens distortion and lighting, and color grading in post, can great play into what we see on screen. But hold the "hero" in your hand and it may look very different.

I will probably go dark sable. But who knows, maybe I can get them to send me a couple of swatches before I choose lol.

I'm in a similar predicament. I currently have a Deep Sable Beaver Poet on order, but I'm torn on color, and not even sure if I should have chosen HJ or gone with another hatter. I do know that I'm after a beaver felt fedora this time around, but having just come from an event with a lot of Indys in full gear, I'm still digesting the drastic differences in felt colors and other details of the various hats that were showcased there.

My S&J Explorador looked quite dark, with a mahogany red undertone compared to most of the other felts. The lightest of the proper Indy hats was probably the Garrison Raiders in his newly developed beaver felt color, which had a nice russet tone. But the spectrum was all over the place really. To me, the HJ Beaver that was there looked almost greenish, while the Fedoraiders SoC looked more gray (though heavily distressed).

Anyway, it probably hurt my decision making more than it helped!

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm

Alright boys I got the Herbert Johnson 40th anniversary hat!!! And my goodness it... disappoints. Haha quite a bit

40th Herbert on my head:

Normal Herbert I shaped myself into SoC:

A real SoC made by Thomas at advintage:

The felt is super thin which I rather like, but it feels so thin that it’s even thinner and floppier than my christy hats that I own. And I own 6 christy adventurers in various colors. Not a fan of its shape or that the pinch was starched to death to keep it tight so is rock hard compared to the rest of the hat hahaha not a big deal but worth a mention for anyone wondering.

My Verdict:
Do NOT buy this hat unless you just want to say you have it as it’s a limited item. This is not worth $750 when you can get a far cheaper, beaver hat from the homie Thomas or Steele and Jones etc that look light years better and actually look like they were plucked from Harrison’s head from production haha
My two cents.

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thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:59 pm

Update:

Hat fixed

Started from scratch.
Nothing about the bash it came with said SoC

This is more like it.

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IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:14 pm

What color is your SOC?

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:14 pm

IJJTM wrote:What color is your SOC?

Which one?

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Illinois_Jones · Post by **Illinois_Jones** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:58 pm

That's exactly why I've been on the fence about HJ but especially the anniversary hat. I can go for a thin felt, as long as it's dense... and that usually eliminates rabbit.

I had a very bad experience with a HJ *before* the reboot and I try not to let it color my opinion of the new iteration, but at the same time I've seen as many bad HJs as good HJs lately -- Weird crown dimensions, bad bashes, lazy ribbon work. From experience and observation I've seen far more consistent, high quality from AdVintage and other vendors to make the brand value-add of HJ rather irrelevant IMO. Especially since it's freakin rabbit. For that price the felt better be made from the killer rabbit of Caerbannog.