Is Herbert Johnson the holy grail of indy fedoras now?

cocomonk22 · Post by **cocomonk22** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:34 pm

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Live and learn!

Moral of the story, don't do what I did, kids!

But a word of advice though- for folks in the US, make sure you email them and ask for an invoice without a VAT surcharge before you place an order. They haven't updated their system to automatically remove it, and there's no reason why you should be paying an extra 20%.

I don't see any VAT surcharge when I go through the order process. Or are you saying that the VAT is included in the price?

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:32 pm

Loneken wrote:
Indiana_Nate wrote:
Loneken wrote:Given the title of this thread I thought I would ask here before creating a new post. Is HJ the holy grail when it gets to Last Crusade fedoras from a screen accuracy standpoint? I understand that they still have the original LC block but it's also not always a guarantee of perfect screen accuracy it looks like...

Basically my options for a screen accurate LC right now are Advintage, Steele & Jones and HJ, since Penman seems to be out of business for a while at least. Leaning towards HJ given the history etc but would love to hear from others specifically on the Last Crusade fedora.
My Crusade Poet is my favorite. I think Michelle did an excellent job with the bash. I wanted a Venice Pier look to it and she nailed it.
Thanks! Any chance you might be able to post a couple of pics? Would love to see it.

Sure thing! The first two were taken just last week and the last two are from when she was a newborn about a year ago. Michelle actually took those photos right after she finished it.

Loneken · Post by **Loneken** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:18 am

Indiana_Nate wrote:
Loneken wrote:
Indiana_Nate wrote:
Loneken wrote:Given the title of this thread I thought I would ask here before creating a new post. Is HJ the holy grail when it gets to Last Crusade fedoras from a screen accuracy standpoint? I understand that they still have the original LC block but it's also not always a guarantee of perfect screen accuracy it looks like...

Basically my options for a screen accurate LC right now are Advintage, Steele & Jones and HJ, since Penman seems to be out of business for a while at least. Leaning towards HJ given the history etc but would love to hear from others specifically on the Last Crusade fedora.
My Crusade Poet is my favorite. I think Michelle did an excellent job with the bash. I wanted a Venice Pier look to it and she nailed it.
Thanks! Any chance you might be able to post a couple of pics? Would love to see it.
Sure thing! The first two were taken just last week and the last two are from when she was a newborn about a year ago. Michelle actually took those photos right after she finished it.

Love it! Thanks for the pics! Can definitely see the Venice look on this one. Do you know if they offer ofher scene specific options for the LC and weathering options? I know Advintage offer a lot of potential customization options for the LC.. I saw a 3 trial specific one from Advintage that looked pretty awesome, including weathering etc. so initially I was tempted to go with Advintage, but now I'm leaning towards HJ.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:42 am

My pleasure! They will work with any scene specific look that you’re after, but they won’t do any weathering. Michelle is really fantastic to work with. I must have sent her a dozen different photos from a dozen different angles to capture the right look. She compared those to her own photos that she keeps on file to use as reference, and I was thrilled with the end product.

I’ve heard and read great thing about AdVintage , but I don’t yet have one in my collection. I just always seem to end up leaning towards HJ. Although you really can’t go wrong with either

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Loneken · Post by **Loneken** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:23 am

Indiana_Nate wrote:My pleasure! They will work with any scene specific look that you’re after, but they won’t do any weathering. Michelle is really fantastic to work with. I must have sent her a dozen different photos from a dozen different angles to capture the right look. She compared those to her own photos that she keeps on file to use as reference, and I was thrilled with the end product.

I’ve heard and read great thing about AdVintage , but I don’t yet have one in my collection. I just always seem to end up leaning towards HJ. Although you really can’t go wrong with either

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Awesome. Might get tempted very soon...

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:29 am

Great pictures, Nate.

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:28 am

Yeah that looks superb on you. Terrific pictures.

I haven't gotten a HJ yet, but when the time comes, I want to personally request that Michelle make my hat.

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:58 am

Indiana_Nate wrote: Sure thing! The first two were taken just last week and the last two are from when she was a newborn about a year ago. Michelle actually took those photos right after she finished it.

I’ve said before that the Last Crusade hat is my least favorite and while that’s still true, it really suits you! That hat looks sharp! Really fits you well. You should post some more photos over in the show off thread.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:50 pm

Thanks, everyone for the kind words! I posted a few more of this and my Raiders over in the show off thread

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:43 pm

cocomonk22 wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:Live and learn!

Moral of the story, don't do what I did, kids!

But a word of advice though- for folks in the US, make sure you email them and ask for an invoice without a VAT surcharge before you place an order. They haven't updated their system to automatically remove it, and there's no reason why you should be paying an extra 20%.
I don't see any VAT surcharge when I go through the order process. Or are you saying that the VAT is included in the price?

It's included in the cost.

You can test it out for yourself- start an order with the shipping address being somewhere in the UK (for example), and start an order to a US address. Compare the final totals. You don't see the surcharge because it's included in the price of the hat.

cocomonk22 · Post by **cocomonk22** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:33 pm

Ok. I sent a message to the enquiries-hj email three days ago to request an invoice without the VAT. Hopefully will get a response soon.

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:00 am

Let us know how it turns out. That's a BIG savings.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:18 am

I emailed Michelle on Monday about the VAT issue as well. Still waiting to hear back.

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IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:48 pm

Any updates on people’s SOC orders?

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:05 pm

IJJTM wrote:Any updates on people’s SOC orders?

Nothing yet :/

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tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:16 pm

I emailed this week to double check lead times. They told me I will receive my order in September.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:46 pm

Have we heard anything back about the VAT charge?

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Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:10 am

If you doubt it, why not just email them?

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:54 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:If you doubt it, why not just email them?

Oh I don't doubt it at all. I was just curious if HJ has made any attempts to correct the situation moving forward.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:13 am

I don't think they're trying to actively fix it, doesn't seem like it's enough of an issue for them to need to address. It's not like they're out anything if an international customer pays the VAT. Maybe if enough folks reached out, then maybe they might be incentivized to just put in an option for international customers just to save time on making individual invoices. Maybe.

Like I said before, the last couple orders I had, I just emailed them, and they made me an invoice sans VAT. Until they adjust their online ordering process, there's not really much else we can do.

Bdgsi11 · Post by **Bdgsi11** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:53 pm

I was looking into getting the Herbert Johnson Raiders. Is the deep sable color the way to go for accuracy?

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:11 pm

They claim it’s the color used in the film, but on screen most of the time it looks like a normal sable to my eyes.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:23 pm

IJJTM wrote:They claim it’s the color used in the film, but on screen most of the time it looks like a normal sable to my eyes.

+1.I don't care what anyone says about color correction, or whatever-- the dark sable just looks TOO dark to me. But get whichever looks right to you.

Jack

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:58 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72000" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Check that thread, the first idol grab picture looks a lot like deep sable to my eyes, but the rest of the movie seems lighter to me.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:17 pm

Hi all

Called into HJ London back in July, had a fitting and a look around the shop. It was really nice to see the shop and the hats/felts on offer. To confirm what people have said the Rabbit and Beaver felts are quite different, rabbit is rougher, but by all means still a great hat.

I have to say the shape, floppiness, and feel of the beaver felt is exactly what I feel the Raiders hat is about. From taking a look at these hats there is definitely a dressier feel to the felt from anything else I’ve had, very light. For me personally this is it. I have always felt the Indy hats I’ve had are a bit ‘extra’, too boxy and a bit of a caricature. For me HJ have it spot on, but that’s my take.

I’ve ordered a regular beaver in a Raven Bar look. This is a picture from the shop, not my hat but what I’ll be calling back in a few months to collect.

https://imgur.com/a/sckB580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:52 am

I look forward to seeing it.
That hat has a LC vibe, but i like it.

Croft

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:26 pm

I’m hoping to do something similar in December. Thanks for sharing with us.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:37 pm

I've been watching some of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles episodes on Paramount+, and I happened to notice a very brief, but clear, shot of the lining of the hat in the episode "Espionage Escapades" with Herbert Johnson on the inside. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get a clear screen-grab of it. I think it would be a nice addition to the HJ Collection if Michelle was to offer a Young Indy Poet.

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:47 pm

I know they have made some before, particularly in 2017. If people really wanted it they could probably ask Michelle with little to no issues.

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:25 pm

Anyone get the 40th anniversary hat yet???

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tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:56 am

tubasthebest wrote:I emailed this week to double check lead times. They told me I will receive my order in September.

I was one of the first, if not the first, to order. This is what they said when I asked about lead times. So we are getting closer!

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:37 am

Just got an update that my 40th anniversary order has shipped! I will post up some photos as soon as I receive it.

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:38 pm

tubasthebest wrote:Just got an update that my 40th anniversary order has shipped! I will post up some photos as soon as I receive it.

Sick!

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thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:40 pm

Oh snap! I just checked rn and looks like they emailed me too saying it’s with the shipping department

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IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:21 pm

Very nice, I’m looking forward to seeing how well it matches up to your other hats.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:55 am

thecoolmiester wrote:Oh snap! I just checked rn and looks like they emailed me too saying it’s with the shipping department

We will probably get them the same day. I am also looking forward to some comparison photos with your other hats. You have quite the collection! I'm excited to hear your thoughts on it.

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:54 pm

Excited for you all. This should be great!

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:25 pm

It will be a good comparison indeed!
I really want to stack it up to the distressed SoC Advintage since it’s so movie accurate I’m taken back by how much it resembles the hat down to everywhere the fullers earth dirt was laid.

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Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Saw on HJ social channels that at least one 40th hat has delivered. Can't wait for some COW members to get theirs so we can all experience vicariously!

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:50 pm

Mine was just delivered! Photos to be posted by the end of today!

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:32 pm

Looking forward to it.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:35 pm

Hey, I made an unboxing video for the 40th anniversary package with the SoC hat. I figured there was a good amount of interest in the whole package, so why not. I'm not great at making videos, and it is a little long. So, feel free to jump around in the video to see what you are interested in.

I plan to get some good photos of the hat, and some comparison shots up sometime soon. So stay tuned.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:35 pm

As promised, some photos:

Left: Penman Hats Last Crusade in Portuguese beaver felt
Center: Herbert Johnson streets of Cairo in Deep Sable rabbit felt
Right: Dorfman Pacific wool felt

For more photos at full resolution click: HERE

IJJTM · Post by **IJJTM** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:18 pm

Sweet, how would you say it compares to your Penman?

thecoolmiester · Post by **thecoolmiester** » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:49 pm

Ooooh I like it! Very clean for a SoC, but HJ doesn’t distress and it looks like a nice clean subtle SoC to me.

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Chose Poorly · Post by **Chose Poorly** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:32 am

Awesome! The hat looks great on you and it definitely feels like HJ delivered on their promise. And give yourself a break on the video. It was actually shockingly well produced, haha.

Indiana_Nate · Post by **Indiana_Nate** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:59 pm

Hat looks phenomenal! It looks like Michelle and Co. did an amazing job with the hat and the package. I also think the video was fantastic. It gave a great representation of the whole package. Congrats on the hat and a job well done!!!

Loneken · Post by **Loneken** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:07 pm

I'm not really an expert in Indy fedoras but this one looks spot on. Makes me want to get one actually! Now I have to decide between this version and a Crusader.

tubasthebest · Post by **tubasthebest** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:52 pm

Thanks everyone for the kind words!

IJJTM wrote:Sweet, how would you say it compares to your Penman?

I'm still gathering my thoughts on this, but I have some initial impressions. And a disclaimer, I am not an expert on anything, these are all my very subjective opinions. Firstly this is a very apples to oranges comparison. I'm comparing a Portuguese beaver felt hat to a rabbit felt hat, and these are both the first of each I've ever owned. The Penman beaver hat feels extremely luxurious, it is pounced incredibly and is very smooth and light. I have heard that rabbit felt is more course, and that is the case for the HJ, still an incredible felt but has a roughness to it. As you can see in the photos the color difference is quite stark between the two. The Penman has more red undertones, the deep sable from HJ is more of a straight brown color (which surprised me because the promo shots for this streets of Cairo hat looked like they had red undertones). The HJ felt is actually thinner than the Penman, which really gives it the Raiders look. The HJ felt is a tiny bit stiffer. The HJ also is shaped much better for the snap brim in the front, I have been trying to work that into my Penman and it hasn't taken yet, but it was out of the box on the HJ.

The most noticeable difference between the two hats is in the sweatband and stitching work. Penman's leather sweatband is much thicker, softer and more substantial. The stitching on the sweatband and ribbon on the Penman are just perfect, it is incredible that he does it by hand. Penman cut his sweatband exactly to size, the HJ sweatband has a bit of warbling to it. This is probably more due to the difference in thickness of the sweat than anything else, and the HJ is just as comfortable as the Penman. The liner on the hats are also different thickness with HJ being slightly thinner.

So far I can't imagine a more accurate Raiders hat than my HJ. It hit all the right notes for me. I have never seen a Penman Raiders in person, and I'd love to, but I am so satisfied by this new hat. The HJ is very obviously made by a master hatter with attention to detail, just like my Penman hat.

Illinois_Jones · Post by **Illinois_Jones** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:12 pm

I've never been a SOC hat guy, so I like that it looks like a really choice all-around Raiders hat. It's still pretty expensive for a rabbit lid, but at least the richness of the color and other qualities are obvious to show that it is a really high quality bunny felt.