Action pleats....

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:47 am

how deep are the action pleats..I am conserned about the bulge -effect in the back of the jacket .How this can be avoided and what causes it ?
AND how deep were the originals and the current ones....

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:29 pm

Marq,
You need to start digging here my friend. All the answers you seek are here, hidden not too deep in the bowels of COW. Use the search and have a look. I swear, everything you need, every question has already been addressed and is there for you to read.

Welcome aboard and good luck on your quest.

Cabinetman · Post by **Cabinetman** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:45 pm

You know, I was was just looking at mine. I have it in lamb (about 6 months old), and while the pleats don't stay "closed" they don't bulge either. My opinion is it is just fine. BUT, for absolute closure, I suppose the elastic band request would be in order for you. Follow Agent5's advice, and look around a bit.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:51 pm

agent5 said:

All the answers you seek are here, hidden not too deep in the bowels of COW.

Does that line strike anyone else as being rediculously funny?

MARQ, just do a search using the link at the upper left of your screen. You'll find everything you need to know and more. Trust me, I learned a little the hard way. Good luck!

Panama Tom Jr. · Post by **Panama Tom Jr.** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:39 pm

My action pleats bulge out as well and initially it bugged me until I watched Raiders on DVD and noticed how many scenes Ford's jacket bulged out in the back - you can really see it in the South American temple scenes. I guess if we wanted screen authenticity, we got it. My jacket even has elastic in the pleats and it still bulges out at the shoulder seam!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:46 pm

"....deep in the bowels of COW...."

Not a pleasant mental image.

Regards. Michaelson

Jack Flanders · Post by **Jack Flanders** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:56 pm

Am I the only one that thinks that action pleats look cool?

Cabinetman · Post by **Cabinetman** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 pm

The info's there, look everywhere....Deep in the bowels of C-OW,
Although you might pull out your hair....Deep in the bowels of C-OW,
Go on and try, it won't hurt much....Deep in the bowels of C-OW,
But you may cry, and cuss and such....Deep in the bowels of C-OW.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:47 pm

Perhaps I'm out of line here, being one who hasn't seen one of these jackets up close, but couldn't it be that the elastic creates a tension in the pleats and pulls/twists the seams or leather, thus creating a bulge? Or does this problem apply to other jackets without the elastic as well ? I've got the feeling this problem appeared in the threads after Peter introduced the option.

/SJ

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:01 pm

You're not out of line, just mistaken

Peter introduced the elastic to prevent this from happening, as action pleats hanging open has been a problem since this jacket has been available. The elastic is just oe band, about an inch and a half to two inches wide, that runs across the back just under the shulders. This has the effect of keeping the pleats closed (for the most part). My pleats stay open a bit too, I just don't think there is any way to avoid that. I think the degree to which the pleats stay open also has to do with the way the back of the jacket fits, elastic or no elastic. I think the general consensus is that the elastic helps alleviate the problem, not worsen it.

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Sun May 02, 2004 8:58 am

I have a wested raiders, and i also noticed that when im moving my arm the pleats bulge out a bit, sometimes they bulge out so much from the jacket so it looks like your having a"hunchback" when im not moving they stay closed(as they are supposed to do right).
Dropped a line to Gerry about this if its normal, and got the answer that the they are doing just what they are invented to do, preventing your back to be to much strechted when your moving your arm, thats why they are called action-pleats.

she also told that people usually have this problem whit the "bulging" when they are not moving.
So its normal..i guess...perhaps i, will go whit the elastics next time.....

junior · Post by **junior** » Sun May 02, 2004 10:31 am

The problem with the Wested jacket is that Peter does not take the yoke seam and thus the top of the pleat 1" higher than the seam that runs up the length of the sleeve. This additional inch, found in any screen shot in Raiders, does make a real difference in the bulge and overall function of the pleat since it, in essance, lengthens the pleat a full inch up the back of the jacket.

This minor detail was incorporated into the Expedition and its users will tell you that it does make the difference. Raise 'em up.

junior

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Sun May 02, 2004 1:19 pm

Is this something that peter could easily fix, if he know about it?

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Sun May 02, 2004 5:26 pm

My jacket is back at Wested mainly because of this problem. I'll keep you all posted with how it goes without reducing the size of the jacket. (They suggested I should go down a size but I didn't want to since it was perfect otherwise.) They'll make me a new one and I sent them an email today regarding the topic Junior commented upon. We'll see what they have to say.

Regards,
Swindiana

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Mon May 03, 2004 10:45 am

Thanks swindi for that.
Cant wait what peter(or gerry)have to say about it.
Its to late for me to sent it back for making any alterations, but if the problem is solved i will definitely make the pleat-request next time i order.

Perhaps a local tailor can fix it if im lucky.....

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

I'm very curious about this alteration myself. I've been discussing this, and another possible change that may make the jacket more functional.
Please let me know what they tell you.

junior · Post by **junior** » Mon May 03, 2004 2:11 pm

Here is a good pic of the point I was making above.
Go here and look at the last pic of the jacket.
http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... c1edc8a3aa

See how the yoke seam meets with the sleeve seam instead of being 1" above it?

junior

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Mon May 03, 2004 2:18 pm

I totally agree with this theory. I think that if the action pleats ended above, closer to the center of the shoulder, instead of below it, the jacket would be less constricting in it's movements. I also think that the sleeve at the armpit section should be attached higher on the body, to allow more upward movement of the arms. I was told that if you order a Wested with the slimmer '80s style cut, that this will be the case.
Now if we could get them to continue the action pleats higher, we would be onto something.

Take a look at the pic near the bottom of MKs page of the FS jacket.
It shows a pic of MK, side by side with a Harrison Ford pic, showing the pleats with the arm horizontal and forward. Notice where the top of the pleats are on HFs jacket.

http://www.regular-guy.com/fs.html

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:16 pm

Even with my bifocals, the two pictures look the same to me. I can't see what ya'll are talking about.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:22 pm

Try putting your specs on correctly, my friend.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon May 03, 2004 6:38 pm

I turned my specs around to the other side of my head and I still don't see it. Next time I meet up with IndyBlues, he's just going to have to point it out to me.

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Mon May 03, 2004 7:54 pm

Bufflehead, put your glasses back in front, because I stand corrected.
The pic in MK's site is the FS, and it must be different than the Wested action pleat placement. I assumed they were similar.
For an even better idea, look att he side pic of Panama Tom Jrs wested, and look where the action pleat ends. Below the shoulder.
Now take a look at you jacket in the mirror, and see if it's in the same position.
My thoughts are that, like I stated above, if the action pleats were ended higher up on the shoulder, they would allow you to move your arms forward. As they are now, the upper back panel is what keeps the arms from moving forwards.
If you've ever owned a classic motorcycle jacket, you will understand what I mean. They usually have a small action pleat behind the shoulder only. This pleat allows the shoulders to roll forward, and the arms can move straight out in front to grab the handlebars. If anyone has a Wested that they wear when riding, they might be able to confirm this.
Also, if the action pleats were higher, you would have minimal sleeve ride up when bringing your arm out in front of you.
Thoughts?

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

IndyBlues wrote:Bufflehead, put your glasses back in front, because I stand corrected.

Wheew. There for a minute, I didn't know if I was coming or going.

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:22 pm

"Battle of the Bulge," eh?

I can see your points, and I agree as well that to raise the pleats would help to elliviate this problem, but what is more screen accurate? To bulge or not to bulge, that is the question.....

Kind Regards,
Captain D

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:38 pm

I'm actually fine with the bulge of the pleats, that doesn't concern me as much as the length. I had elastic installed by Peter in my Wested goat, and it works great. Really, for screen accuracy, I guess the gussets would need to be slightly higher, as in the pics, but I'm more of a function over screen accuracy kind of guy. I just want to put my arms up without feeling like my sleeves are going to rip off at the shoulder.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Wested, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to order a second one in Authentic lamb, I just want to see if I can get some of these off the wall alterationsthat I may need.
When I ordered mine, I ordered an off the rack size 50, with sleeves shortened for my size, and with a bunch of extras. I didn't order any special measurements, that would have really swayed from the standard.
I'm starting to think that maybe I need a wider shoulder to shoulder size jacket. My chest measures a 48, but my shoulders are pretty wide, so this may need to be taken into consideration on my next order.
Maybe Peter will see this thread, and give us his thoughts.

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Tue May 04, 2004 12:56 am

I'd email him directly with your questions, or if you're really thinking on it alot, call.

Also, I don't think the original screen version had gussets.

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue May 04, 2004 1:07 am

I've heard that it did, and it didn't, depending on the jacket.
But don't quote me on that one.

junior · Post by **junior** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:47 pm

Screen accurate is moving the pleats up 1". Click on this link to MK's jacket page http://www.regular-guy.com/fs.html and scroll down to the comparison pic of Ford and MK. The seam running up the length of the sleeve is 1" lower than the top of the pleat/yoke seam (the seam that seperates the two back panels).

Find any screen shot in Raiders that shows this and you will find the same. Wested has the correct placement for the seam that runs the length of the sleeve, it's the yoke seam/pleat starting point that is wrong.

The reason it is wrong is because the jacket that Peter made for Crusade had the pleat postioned this way (look at any screen shot in Crusade). When he started getting requests for the "Indy Jacket", he couldn't find the original patterns for the Raiders jacket so he used some patterns from Crusade...hence the reason why the pleat is STILL made this way for the Raiders jacket made available to the public.

This isn't rocket science. Flightsuits and _ saw this on the stunt jacket and incorporated this feature into the design for the Expedition. All Peter has to do is the same and the problem is solved.

So not only is this "Raiders" screen accurate, it is more functional as well.

Next.

junior

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Tue May 04, 2004 3:10 pm

Ok, now that we have solved the pleat mystery...
how can i alter this on my wested raiders myself?
To late to send it back.

any suggestions would be very welcome

Thanks

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:53 am

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed May 05, 2004 1:39 am

I don't think I understand all this... On my Wested the back panel does extend an inch higher than the sleeve seam, and I'm sure I didn't specify that as an extra or an option.

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:47 am

Maybe old peter already have taken the suggestion to his heart, and decided to have it as a standard.

How old is your wested?

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Wed May 05, 2004 1:11 pm

I deleted my previous post....for I remembered that GuyBrush and I ordered our goatskin jackets about roughly the same time. I went to go check my goatskin "Raiders" style jacket as well, and I noticed that my upper seam/yoke "IS" at least 1'' inch higher than the arm sleeve seam!

My jacket looks identical to the pics posted in MK's comparison shots of Ford wearing his "Raiders" jacket, and MK's Flightsuit jacket.

I recieved this jacket in late March/early April, and I also KNOW that I didn't request this on my jacket, so perhaps Peter and the Wested gang is one step ahead of us gearheads in making this standard. Kudos to Peter!

Kind Regards,
Captain D

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Wed May 05, 2004 2:25 pm

Great!
Did you have any problems whit "bulging"?

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed May 05, 2004 3:33 pm

I know I haven't really. I mean, the pleats don't lie FLAT but they're not gaping open. They look like they should I think.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Wed May 05, 2004 3:36 pm

Hm....

Maybe it has become standard on the Raiders, but not on the Temple jacket? My ToD jacket currently at Wested have the seams in level.

Regards,
Swindiana

junior · Post by **junior** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:34 pm

That's because the ToD jacket was originally made that way...by a French company and some later by Wested.

junior

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:29 pm

It could be that the TOD jackets get the extra length by lowering the back plate by 1" . I dunno, it's just what came to mind.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:06 am

No news on the 1 inch magic, but good news about my jacket anyway:

Your jacket has now been inspected fully and we can confirm that there is a fault in the leather on the back panel. This is easily correctable
by placing a new panel in the jacket.

They wouldn't move the yoke seam on it, but that doesn't matter to me as long as the problem will be fixed, or the pleats are even anyway. ToD accurate I guess.

You gotta love the customer service.

Regards,
Swindiana

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Fri May 07, 2004 12:18 pm

Glad to hear about your jacket! Yes, the customer service there at Wested is top-notch!

Regards,
Captain D

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:58 pm

SO here it is:
At first a was very keen on to order a 2nd wested raiders.
As a request i said that i wanted the backpanel 1" longer at the upper side as shown on screen, BUT gerry told me that doing this means trouble!
she told that they use to do this on all jackets, but soon they got jackets being sent back because people had trouble whit the yoke-seam making the shoulder-part at the back being very stiff, and difficult to move your arms in the right way.

So thats why they have moved down the yoke.

If you still want this request its no problem for them to do it, but they wont accepting any jackets being sent back if this problem occurs......because you have been warned about it.

But as gerry said "Harrison ford didnt care, because he was paid alot of money"

Indianafred · Post by **Indianafred** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:01 pm

And thats probably why they made the ToD and LC, 1" longer in lenght instead

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:24 pm

I would think that it would be the other way around, and that the lower the yoke seam, the harder it would be to move the arms normally.
I wonder why the yoke being higher would make the arms feel weird to move? It seems that if there was more pleat, and less non-moving back material(meaning a lower yoke), that the arms would move more freely.
But I'm not in the clothing industry, and they do have tons more experience dealling with these little nuances. Thats why they are the pros.

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:37 am

I can agree with you IndyBlues about how raing the upper seam/yoke would help, not only reduce the bulging effect, but also create better arm movement.....But, as you said, lol, they are the pros

Kind Regards,
Captain D

junior · Post by **junior** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:31 pm

C'mon Gerry. I mean....nevermind.

junior

junior · Post by **junior** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:04 pm

Hello _.

Been by to see Reagan yet?

junior

rigor · Post by **rigor** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:25 pm

The action pleats on my 6 month old Wested bulge even with the elastic and 3" pleat depth. I'm wondering if the problem is the 'slope' of my shoulders or rather the yoke isn't cut to match the slope of my shoulders. With my arms hanging at my sides if I shrug my shoulders up an inch or so, the bottom seam of the yoke straightens out which raises the top of the pleats which in turn closes the pleats. Everything looks great then. When I drop my shoulders back down the bottom corners of the yoke drop, the yoke bows, and the pleats open.

I'm going to write Wested this weekend to see if I can get the yoke adjusted to fit my shoulder slope/hang/angle/whatever a bit better in this jacket or the next. Has anyone asked for this before? Haven't been able to find mention of this in the, ahem, bowels of COW.

Thanks!

Heirphoto · Post by **Heirphoto** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:23 pm

Rigor,
It may very well be a result of each persons unique shape. I love everything about my TOD Lambskin except that hunchback buldge. My shoulders roll forward slightly even when standing very straight. My jacket buldges quite a bit in the back. It is still fairly new so maybe in time this will get better but it bugs me. Many times I out it on, check the mirror, then chose a different jacket for the day.

Tony

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:45 am

If you pull the side straps to tight (like most folks end to do), you will create the gap/hump in the pleats too. The straps are there to hold the sides together, and are NOT placed there for adjustment or making the jacket tighter around the sides of the body. Pulling them to tight also causes a lot more strain to the strap that wasn't designed for that much tension, and causes a lot of the strap tears I've been reading about lately. I've worn these jackets for years, and to date have NEVER caught a side strap on anything, nor had one tear. I also just adjust the straps to keep the sides from gaping open when I'm standing straight as they were intended to do. Regards. Michaelson

Heirphoto · Post by **Heirphoto** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:05 pm

Michaelson,
You are probsbly right, I was think this last night when I tried mine back on. If I loosen them a bit the jacket does hang a little better.
My shoulders rolling forward does impact it a lot too. if I pull them back straight like a normal person instead of like the ape I am <g> things look way better!
It is a cool jacket and when I do where it I can immediately see the Indy look.
Tony

Action pleats....

Action pleats....

Bulging action pleats