Great article about the history of the Jones fedora

[fletchshaw]

The Ringer published a great article about the history of the Jones fedora. Well worth the read.

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2020/6 ... e-lost-ark" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tennessee Smith]

Yeah, the writer contacted us a few weeks ago and I was fortunate enough to be able to contribute a small bit.

Great article!!!

[IndianaJustin]

Very enjoyable, thanks for sharing.

[davidd]

After reading the article, I have a question about the jacket. The article states:

"... she found two original jackets with brass zippers and D rings at the hip, which differed from the supply’s other European styles...."

When I purchased my first Wested jacket, ages ago, it came with a nickel plated zipper, because, according to Wested Leather, the original Raiders jacket featured nickel-plated hardware, not brass.

Which is "screen accurate" for a Raiders jacket, nickel or brass?

[Indiana Jeff]

That line from DNL.

It's taken from when she curated the Hollywood Costume Exhibition. She completely botches the jacket description and I give Adam Savage full credit for keeping a straight face when we know he knows better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta6rggdNQs&app=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fedora used for that display is also not a Raiders fedora.

OK, maybe I'm nitpicking, but anyone who is going to write an article about Indiana Jones and write that he was dragged by a piece of rope behind the truck?!

I'm surprised they didn't mention the fedora recently sold at auction by Prop Store.

That being said, I did enjoy the article and it's great some of IndyGear's staff were interviewed and received shout-outs.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Canyon]

What a great article. I really enjoyed it.

Firstly, fletchshaw, thank you for posting this article.

Secondly, congratulations to the gentleman of Indygear for your indescribable hard work. We appreciate it.

[Mark Raats]

Great feature fella's
A great reminder of how much work has been done by the fans and forums to identify the original costume elements, set the record straight and in providing product that the rest of us fans can enjoy.

Congratulations..
M

[backstagejack]

That line from DNL.

It's taken from when she curated the Hollywood Costume Exhibition. She completely botches the jacket description and I give Adam Savage full credit for keeping a straight face when we know he knows better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta6rggdNQs&app=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fedora used for that display is also not a Raiders fedora..........

Well, at least she didn't mention RedWing shoes this time......

I also find it weird that every hat would hat IJ embossed on all leather sweatbands and for that to be making it difficult to find THE Raiders fedora. Would the Raiders fedora have had anything like that on it? I can easily see the hats after that with that on it but from Raiders?

GREAT article and love that the members of Indygear were interviewed.

[NoBadDates]

I also find it weird that every hat would hat IJ embossed on all leather sweatbands and for that to be making it difficult to find THE Raiders fedora. Would the Raiders fedora have had anything like that on it? I can easily see the hats after that with that on it but from Raiders?

GREAT article and love that the members of Indygear were interviewed.

My understanding from speaking to a fan who spoke directly to Richard Swales on this point was that only 5 of the hats sent to the studio had IJ stamped into the sweat for Raiders. These were the ones for Ford. I don't believe the other hats for the stunt team had any stamps. I also was told that it became a regular practise to add the IJ into customer Poets in store as it then became a popular request. Understandably so.


M

[Mike]

At the risk of seeming conceited, I did also ask they change my nomenclature from "site user".

All in all, I thought it a good read. I'm glad he interviewed multiple people and went back to HJ to catch up on the current offerings. Made it a more well-rounded piece.

[backstagejack]

My understanding from speaking to a fan who spoke directly to Richard Swales on this point was that only 5 of the hats sent to the studio had IJ stamped into the sweat for Raiders. These were the ones for Ford. I don't believe the other hats for the stunt team had any stamps. I also was told that it became a regular practise to add the IJ into customer Poets in store as it then became a popular request. Understandably so.


M

Wow, I did not know that. I just figured Raiders was such a quick and dirty movie. I figured No one knew they were making history enough to put enough effort into having IJ in a hat as even the movie itself originally didn't have Indiana Jones in the title. I could easily see it for the future movies. Interesting.

Thanks for the info!

[Bartram]

Agreed all around!

Honestly, I was surpirsed the article captured as much nuance as it did for this quirky hobby or ours. Really cool to see our people lifted up!

B

[Forrest For the Trees]

Yep, good read. It acknowledged DN's "misremembering" while giving her the credit she deserves.

Still, it is hard to imagine her in the Lucasfilm archives among all those treasures, and choosing the wrong pieces for that exhibit. But perhaps there really wasn't much left in good shape from the original Raiders' production. Also, hard to believe, especially given their resources, that Lucasfilm would not have gone back and properly catalogued these pieces. Maybe they have since?

[Indiana Jeff]

Mark/KramStaar has posted about the archives in the past and yes, there are jackets labeled to ROLA, though it is possible they were not at the time DNL was looking through the inventory for the exhibition. Also, as stated by Mark, the ROLA marked jackets are in poor shape so likely not appropriate for display. Personally I don't think DNL would want to admit a jacket on display is not one she personally had a hand in producing (she did not do costume design on any of the other IJ movies) so she claims she found the one, true jacket (with all the wrong details).

These are all great comments and my thanks to Indiana Jeff for answering the question about photographs.

Guests to the archive building are strictly forbidden to take photographs but I am happy to say that they don't mind me taking as many as I want in the time I have there. Unfortunately even though I have a bunch of pictures, a condition of this privileged concession is that I am not allowed to share them which is frustrating for me and a hair-pulling for the members here. I apologise unreservedly for not being able to do so..

Regarding the color, the thing that is clearly evident is that the jackets for both Raiders and for TOD are much lighter than I thought they would be. While the Raiders jackets are lighter they have also aged to that brittle tobacco-stain (in places shiny) finish that can often be a typical of very old jackets. I suspect that Michaelson is right in that fading has occurred given their age but its interesting to see that the LC jackets are pretty much how we know them to be (there are currently roughly 6 x LC jackets in the archive building) and the CS jackets - of which there are about 30 x - are also as we know them color-wize.

Going back to the Raiders jackets, please remember that I am referring only to the one's on the archive building and not those reportedly owned by Tony, Harrison George et al. There are more of them but the only other one I have seen is the one that used to hang in GWL's office and that was a few years ago...

Indiana Jeff makes a point that I have made many times and that is that no-one was aware that this was going to be such a big deal. For Raiders there were very few jackets made (in comparison to the other movies) so they were punished, abused and trashed which as resulted in them being in such a poor condition.

While us Indy fans feel that these amazing treasures should be protected and preserved like the Grail itself, I believe that the other very important thing to remember is what I wrote in a personal record I did on the archive contents:

"Its imperative to put all of this into some kind of context because I often read comments from folk who scream with indignation about the fact that the Archives might not know enough and that sometimes the information they have regarding the items is not always correct. The truth of the matter is that not only were the early jackets and props made in a rushed fashion - so some of the details have become lost and blurred over time - the jackets, fedora’s and bags also only form a very small part of the overall Archive inventory.

The details of their creation, model types and screen history is therefore often overwhelmed by the literally thousands of Vader, Leia and Willow props and costumes also contained in the collection - all of which demand the same level of attention and archiving that all of the Indy items deserve. Although this is not an excuse, it might serve to put into context the massive job the 2 x curators at the Archives have in documenting and preserving all of the items they have in their care..."

I hope this is of some interest.
MARK

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[backstagejack]

Indiana Jeff makes a point that I have made many times and that is that no-one was aware that this was going to be such a big deal. For Raiders there were very few jackets made (in comparison to the other movies) so they were punished, abused and trashed which as resulted in them being in such a poor condition.
MARK

This is why I find it fascinating that the Raiders production and Swales would even bother putting IJ in initials in the hat. Sure, in future movies I can definitely see it but for the quick and dirty filmed Raiders that didn't even have Indys name in the title?

[Michaelson]

Speaking to Mr. Swales on a few occasions myself in years past, his stories changed from one call to the next, as did his attitude toward us and the hobby. One day he was so talkative you could barely get in a question , and the next he was much too busy to waste time speaking to anyone not standing in shop with cash in hand.

I’ve always taken what he has been quoted as saying with a HUGE grain of salt. The truth was somewhere in the middle.

Regards! Michaelson

[backstagejack]

Speaking to Mr. Swales on a few occasions myself in years past, his stories changed from one call to the next, as did his attitude toward us and the hobby. One day he was so talkative you could barely get in a question , and the next he was much too busy to waste time speaking to anyone not standing in shop with cash in hand.

I’ve always taken what he has been quoted as saying with a HUGE grain of salt. The truth was somewhere in the middle.

Regards! Michaelson

That's what I was thinking. Swales like DNL has memories that get jumbled up between the films in the same way DNL keeps talking about an Australian model and Swales insisting it was the Poet, etc. Swales made some hats and was done with it. He never cared or expected to be contacted 20-30 years later about it.

Even in the article, with DNL going through the hats, there's no reason she wasn't going through LC hats or CS hats before she supposedly found THE #1 Raiders hat. To me it makes WAY more sense for the IJ labelled hats to be from later films and not Raiders. but idk

[Howard Weinstein]

Enjoyable article (also posted by Indy Gear on Facebook)

As to the recollections of people who worked on the movies and/or costume pieces 30-40 years ago either not being accurate or contradicting what they or others may have said, I think unless there's actual documentation to refer to, it's really hard to remember details from that long ago, especially among all the other work they've probably done since.

Example: In 1974, I started my writing career at age 19 by selling a script to NBC's Saturday morning animated STAR TREK TV series. A couple of years ago, I was contacted and interviewed by authors working on 2 different books about the animated TREK series.

To answer their emailed questions, I dug into my paper files of notes and documents -- and found details I'd completely forgotten! And that's even with my having talked about my experiences at many conventions over the years.

We'd like to think we have total recall of significant times in our life, but most of us probably don't. The older we get, the more we forget!

[Mike]

We'd like to think we have total recall of significant times in our life, but most of us probably don't. The older we get, the more we forget!

My wife game me an "Old Guys Rule" t-shirt for my birthday yesterday. It came with a "sticker" tag and the tagline read "The older I get, the better I was."

Appropriate here.

[Nosirrah]

Viewing this issue from the distance of over four decades (counting pre-production), it seems appropriate, even inevitable, that the origins of a legendary artifact are becoming lost in the mists of time. Really, how could it be otherwise?
Art imitates life, life imitates art. At some point, the two become indistinguishable, even fused.