New Herbert Johnson!

[Mulceber]

Let us know what you find out. We might be able to glean something about their long-term plans from how they answer.

[IndyFan89]

Email sent. Will report back...


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[Mulceber]

The only wrinkle is that I’m not sure HJ has the blocks. Jack said he owned the copies he made when he found the Raiders block, so, weird as it sounds, I’m not sure HJ has a copying them. It might be worth asking Jack.

[IndyFan89]

Maybe Jack can confirm, but I believe I’ve been talking to his apprentice. Mel is her name. She has mentioned their “new blocks” being the more popular choice. I sent an email tonight straight up asking if they’re still making the HJ Reboot or is it different from what Jack was making. We’ll see...


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[Mulceber]

Unless I’m mistaken, the new blocks would be the quarter inch shorter version that Jack created when we started pointing out that the regular Raiders block was producing REALLY tall hats. If so, then HJ still has the blocks and is still doing custom hats. But we’ll see what she and/or Jack says.

[Jeremiah]

Can someone help me understand how an original block used to make THE hats produces too tall a crown? Am I missing something here?

I am sorry but I remain a skeptic here with this whole thing. Jack. Nothing personal, but I just need more proof in order to believe all of your claims. Maybe you are who you say you are and have done what you said you have done, but this all seems so strange. I know the popular path is to blindly trust and believe all that is fed to us, but I am a contrarian. I know this does not make me popular on this site and I am fine with that as I am not here for popularity. Anyway. No disrespect intended and I know there are those here who will have your back and you may not even have to respond. Ha.
Anyway. Cheers. If I am wrong I will be the first to apologize.

[Jack@hatter]

As far as I know the reboot is continuing.

And will go to more success. We all want hj to go on.

As for blocks as far as I'm aware hj has a full set of both.

As for information on the finding of equipment. This was information I shared with the group only. Before the reboot I was working for hj for a full six months in contact with various fans to basically see the issues with our current product.

As I mentioned the blocks were never lost but repurposed. Various changes in ownership and suppliers meant that they were forgotten. There was only one major hat factory in the UK. That supplied every one.

HJ brought all the factory when it went for sale. The Poet blocks were within the myriad of other job lots of equipment.

Of course, hj cannot share business information to the public. They're not a one man hatting company. But a professional organization.

I just shared what I knew because the more I researched the more I became a fan and involved with this very passionate hobby.

That's all.

If you are sceptical that's your position. Many competitors of hj made sure that happened with a lot of fans.

For myself there is no profit in deception. I am involved in a trade that has integrity at its core. And of course a passion for hats. I would like to think that I and others are principled enough to understand this.

Regards jack

[Mulceber]

Can someone help me understand how an original block used to make THE hats produces too tall a crown? Am I missing something here?

It has to do with how the height of the crown scales up with the size of the hat. The Raiders block increases the height of the crown with the hat size, which is all well and good, but it seems to do it too much: hat size 7 1/4 (Ford's size) and below get a 5.5 inch crown, but starting at size 7 3/8, the crown height seems to jump a quarter inch per hat size - a size 7 1/2 has a crown that is 6 inches tall. Hence, people with larger hat sizes receive hats that look too tall. Put another way, it's not a problem of the block, per se, but a problem of us being very used to seeing it on an actor with a size 7 1/4 head.

[Jack@hatter]

Circumference affects height.

5.5 inches at size fifty eight will produce a different balance of height at 5.5 inches at size 62. It will produce a broader shape due to the larger circumference. The proportion lost. Adjustment to height maintains this balance in shape.
The hat when new looked very much like the exterior scenes outside the idol tomb. Which is what hj have. Plus other blocks that reflect the height when the fedora is battered and used through filming production.

The Poet block shape is very generic shape that was popular for many many decades. There are instances in many other manufacturers having exactly the same crown shape from the late 1920s onwards. Hj just stuck with this style when it became unfashionable. Lock and Co do a very similar model called the Chelsea. They have had that model in their range for decades.

What we try to do is replicate the dimensions on a 58 fedora on increasingly larger sizes.

Regards jack

[IndyFan89]

Michelle is an extremely talented hatter and can make the hats to as good if not better standard than Jack. Michelle will still be production the hats hand finished and shaped in our production unit to any spec that is requested.

If I can be of nay further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me

Kind regards

Maria

She didn’t seem to answer my specific questions but I’m confident now that they’re continuing the Reboot.


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[Jack@hatter]

Michelle is an extremely talented hatter and can make the hats to as good if not better standard than Jack. Michelle will still be production the hats hand finished and shaped in our production unit to any spec that is requested.

If I can be of nay further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me

Kind regards

Maria

She didn’t seem to answer my specific questions but I’m confident now that they’re continuing the Reboot.


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It's true she makes great hats. You won't be disappointed.

Regards

Jack.

[Jeremiah]

Can someone help me understand how an original block used to make THE hats produces too tall a crown? Am I missing something here?

It has to do with how the height of the crown scales up with the size of the hat. The Raiders block increases the height of the crown with the hat size, which is all well and good, but it seems to do it too much: hat size 7 1/4 (Ford's size) and below get a 5.5 inch crown, but starting at size 7 3/8, the crown height seems to jump a quarter inch per hat size - a size 7 1/2 has a crown that is 6 inches tall. Hence, people with larger hat sizes receive hats that look too tall. Put another way, it's not a problem of the block, per se, but a problem of us being very used to seeing it on an actor with a size 7 1/4 head.

Thanks.

@Jack,
Thanks for the info. Again. My being skeptical is in no way meant to be offensive. I think you have always handled all your presence here in a grand manner even amidst the waves.

[senorjacob]

I think Michelle is who made my HJ reboot. It worked out great. It’s a fantastic hat.

[Jack@hatter]

Can someone help me understand how an original block used to make THE hats produces too tall a crown? Am I missing something here?

It has to do with how the height of the crown scales up with the size of the hat. The Raiders block increases the height of the crown with the hat size, which is all well and good, but it seems to do it too much: hat size 7 1/4 (Ford's size) and below get a 5.5 inch crown, but starting at size 7 3/8, the crown height seems to jump a quarter inch per hat size - a size 7 1/2 has a crown that is 6 inches tall. Hence, people with larger hat sizes receive hats that look too tall. Put another way, it's not a problem of the block, per se, but a problem of us being very used to seeing it on an actor with a size 7 1/4 head.

Thanks.

@Jack,
Thanks for the info. Again. My being skeptical is in no way meant to be offensive. I think you have always handled all your presence here in a grand manner even amidst the waves.

My pleasure jeramiah.

Regards jack

[Jack@hatter]

I think Michelle is who made my HJ reboot. It worked out great. It’s a fantastic hat.

Great. She was my assistant, whom I trained up. And now filling my previous role. Of course I'm biased as I love her work. Great person too.
Very very compitant.

Regards jack

[Screencapped]

Most of the blocks I've accumulated for my new hat making endeavor are 6" or slightly taller. To make a shorter crowned hat I simply use boards(spacers/shims) with a hole cut in the center the circumference of the block I'm using. I have 1/4", 3/8", & 1/2" spacers for customers who prefer a shorter crown. Fedoraiders (Jasen) authored a post on this forum about this technique earlier this year.

[micsteam]

Here you go Michaelson, Mulceber, Eazybox as per our September 2017 conversation quoting from our own forum:

" I saw this on HJ’s FB page this morning...


It is with a heavy heart that we at Herbert Johnson Hatters bring the following news and warnings to our fans and followers.

It has been brought to our attention that an ex-employee who had been fired some years ago, who goes by the alias of ‘Jack’ is selling non-authorised and plagiarised product in the Herbert Johnson name. We want to make clear to the public that this individual does not represent us nor does he have the right to use our name. He is not authorised to possess the branded components he has advertised that he will use. He also does not have our permission to authenticate any such product masquerading in our brand name. The components he has advertised were all rejected by us for good reason and are not part of our authorised brand styling and remain our property, in any event. This individual, by making product in our name with stolen components, is inviting the public to be complicit in illegal activity and accepting stolen goods. It is with regret that we feel the need to inform and warn the public for their own safety.

We want to make clear that we wish no ill will on the individual and solely seek to warn and protect the public from the actions of this individual. We understand that he is suffering from ill health, so our intention is at present to politely ask that the individual cease and desist in this illegal activity and return our property to us. We support this individuals right to create product in their own name and with their own materials and personal branding and we wish them the best with their health and future. We cannot however with good conscience stand by and allow the fans and the public to be put at risk by this individuals’ choices and we want to alert and protect those vulnerable from potentially serious consequences.

Management Team at Herbert Johnson Hatters and Swaine Adeney Brigg. "

I find it odd that Michaelson's rebuke to me at the time, which I never accused him of anything/nor did I understand as I never attacked him just questioned HJ Jack and Easybox, has been deleted ?? You know if we are all fair and impartial …. I think my point has been made. I can supply screen grabs if needed, in case foggy memories. Hope all are well.

[Michaelson]

Actually, I have no idea what you’re even talking about at the moment. If you’re referencing something that happened 2 years ago, situations change and if I was involved at the time, it was dealing with a situation that was occurring at that moment.

We are aware of everything you posted above, and if you were on top of it, that all played out on Facebook. Jack pointed out to HJ that nothing HJ talked about had been ‘taken, and nothing sold’, so it was a tempest in a teapot. He then apologized to them for all the confusion.

HJ deleted the post the next day, as it was pointed out to them by posters there that HJ had broken copyright laws by posting Jack’s photos without his permission! The whole thing was dropped.

Have you been nursing this grudge for 2 years!!?

I am sorry you’ve held something like this against me, but I hope you don’t think anything around here is personal. It’s not!

Also if something was deleted or removed, I’m not the only here who has that power, and many times(make that 99% of the time) its a decision made by committee based on the situation at that moment.

I’m sorry if I was involved in something that that has apparently been stuck in your craw for so long. It’s never my intention when I’m involved in a moderating situation. Sometimes those decisions are difficult, as no one knows the whole back story that may also be going on behind the scenes.

In going back and re-reading my response to you 2 years ago on page 5, there’s absolutely nothing there but setting information straight, and specifically 4 points you had made. Those were: It was my HJ hat that Dave Garrison reviewed. Dave contacted Jack first, not the other way around, HJ does use Portuguese felt, and the provenance of the block is still a matter of personal belief or disbelief. That’s what I was addressing at that time, and nothing has changed in that regard.

All you had to do was shoot me a PM and we could have sorted it out immediately....and that goes for anyone reading this. If you have an issue with one of us in administrative positions, LET US KNOW! We answer PM’s daily! Sometimes it can be simply a misunderstanding or something else is going on, but we’ll do our very best to sort things out if it’s in our power.

Regards! Michaelson

[micsteam]

Hi all,
Michaelson, the fact that you seemed to need to give me a very detailed rebuff says a lot, if this was a lot of BS you would've not payed much attention. I never talked about Garrison Hatters, which is now defunct/out of business, and has or had no bearing on our conversation which was never directed at you but you felt to use him as a reference for HJ. Jack at HJ is a FRAUD !! I have myself and other friends have called HJ and they don't know whom we are talking about. It's the same product that has come out of HJ since the mid to late 1980's and not great, nothing new. Not holding a grudge but don't like being belittled, I thought you're not a moderator anymore.. retired... apparently not. I think you are a liar. Let it stand. I'm screen capturing this so if you want to delete it, or your friends have at it.

[IndyFan89]

I’m so confused as to what’s happening here.


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[micsteam]

This an old thread about a guy says he is making hats for Herbert Johnson whom is the hat/fedora makers of the first three movies. Club Obi Wan/ Indygear has said that Herbert Johnson is not as good, lamens terms, as the original hat made for Raiders by them since 1981, didn't like them for years then all of a sudden they are in good graces with COW specifically Michaelson. Read the whole thread … before it's erased.

[andrea1984]

Mmm confusion here. jack (artistic name) worked effectively at HJ in the period 2016-2017. Now master hatter is Michelle poyer -sleeman , a very talented hatter imho. Quality from the time of reboot is different obviously from previous machinemade hats.

[eazybox]

I haven't been active here for a long time, but since my user name was invoked I suppose I should respond.

Like Michaelson, this all happened so long ago that I have no recollection of the specific details under discussion. And I haven't the time or the inclination to plow through this entire thread to re-familiarize myself with them. I do recall that one member (I don't remember who, perhaps it was you) strongly implied that I was some kind of undercover agent working on behalf of HJ, a rumor that a couple of other members picked up on.

I resented the implications and as they continued on other threads, I replied in perhaps stronger words than I should have.

I have since moved on and have no desire to become embroiled in the conflict again. I got a superb hat out of my brief encounter with "Jack," and that's all that's important to me now.

[Michaelson]

Same here, easybox. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be ‘lying’ about. I haven’t lied about anything. I have never had a dog in the fight, and quite honestly don’t care one way or the other.

andrea1984 summed it up nicely. There was nothing ‘sudden’ about the changes at HJ from moving away from machine made to bespoke hats, as well as moving from keeping fans at arms length to an open arm policy now. Why WOULDN'T we be excited for these changes, especially by the original maker of the Indy fedora?

This is a two year old thread and old news. I’m as confused as the rest of you what even brought this up.

If you felt belittled, for that I humbly apologize. Like anyone else at this site, I can get as caught up in a discussion as the next member...I wish you had said something to me back then so we could have straightened things out....but for you to be calling me a liar is flat out insulting and totally uncalled for! "Let it stand'? Not hardly. It's puzzling you'd do something like this after you thought I was no longer a moderator., especially after two years!

For future reference, his screen name is Jack. His real name is Leon. That’s why HJ never heard of him. It’s also ironic that HJ told you and 'your friends' they never heard of him, but in the very post you copied above they claim him as an ‘ex—employee’ and even know his alias. Puzzling, but I guess after 2 years apparently SOMEONE figured out who he was.

On September 21, 2017 YOU brought Dave Garrison into the discussion, and my reply, which is apparently the source of all this, was immediately AFTER your post, simply clarifying the fact Jack didn't send Dave a sample hat as you stated in your post...I sent Dave my personal hat I had traded one of my AB's for as Dave wanted to see one. He and Jack had been corresponding back and forth. YOU brought Dave Garrison into the discussion, not me!

In that post you wrote,

Why did Jack@HJ send a hat to David Garrison to see if it met Raiders spec and standards if you have " THE" Raiders hat block ??

As you say, it's all back there if anyone wants to take their time plowing through two year old threads, since you brought all this back up. All I did then AND now was address those 4 points YOU brought up in that September 21st, 2017 post. Nothing more.

I was then, and am now, STILL pleased HJ once again makes hand-made, bespoke fedoras instead of standard production hats and welcome the fans with open arms. Other than that, I still have no 'dog in the fight'.

I will NEVER understand why I continue to become a target of these types of attacks. I guess it's just because of my longevity here, but believe me, I am only one cog in the machinery at Indygear.

Screen capture all you want. I have locked your posts so YOU can't edit or delete as well. Let others try to figure out why in the world you're doing this. I sure don't know, and quite frankly have wasted enough of my time on this.

I haven’t retired. I’m here everyday, and always have been.

Regards! Michaelson

[eazybox]

Same here, easybox. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be ‘lying’ about. I haven’t lied about anything. I have never had a dog in the fight, and quite honestly don’t care one way or the other.

This is a two year old thread and old news. I’m as confused as the rest of you what even brought this up.

Screen capture all you want. I haven’t retired. I’m here everyday.

Regards! Michaelson

[Michaelson]

Thanks. I added a bit more to that post, in case your ' ' no longer applies.

Regards! M

[eazybox]

Thanks. I added a bit more to that post, in case your ' ' no longer applies.

Regards! M

Ordinarily I'd give you another , but in this case I won't, because that would tip everyone off to our carefully concealed conspiracy.

Just kidding.

[Michaelson]

The Illuminati should take notes!

Regards! M

[eazybox]

The Illuminati should take notes!

Regards! M

[Michaelson]

We’re locking this thread as Michelle of HJ has posted in the thread below that has bearing on this matter.

Rather than spreading it between threads 2 years apart, this will move to the current thread.

Use this thread for reference.

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards! Michaelson