Turn or no Turn on my next Indy hat?

jgino · Post by **jgino** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:09 pm

Should I get the turn on my next Indy hat or keep it straight? Opinions please and photos if possible. Thanks.

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:25 pm

really just depends on what you like.

The Turn has that great rough and tumble Indy look specific to the SOC scene but the no-turn has more of a classic wear with indy gear or with a suit look. but that's jmo.

Though if you already have an Indy hat with no turn, why not one with a turn? Then you have both.

Charybdis · Post by **Charybdis** » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:33 pm

Totally up to your tastes but I would go with no turn. The effect is subtle and personally, I have a hat with the turn and it just bugs me when I wear it! Why? Because its crooked!

But that's just me...

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:24 pm

I tend to lean the other way. I think the dimensional brim and the turn are what make the hat an Indy hat.

Plus I kinda think it looks cool.

I have several from various makers and always get them turned.

RiffRalf · Post by **RiffRalf** » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:48 am

Turn would bug the #### out of me. It looks like a mistake or contrived to me. No turn all the way

interbak · Post by **interbak** » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:32 pm

Are you going for a Raiders look, or one of the other movies? If Raiders, go for the turn, if any of the others, no turn.

B

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:08 am

I have seen plenty of non Indy hats with a turn. The turn is not limited to Indiana Jones. That said I prefer the turn.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:28 am

Same. The turn is what makes a Raiders hat.

AttyOzzy · Post by **AttyOzzy** » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:37 pm

I have seen the Raiders turn depicted in a few ROTLA still photos, but to be honest, and it could just be my eyes, I do not find the "turn" to be either as frequent or as prominent in ROTLA as is frequently discussed. I feel like most of the ROTLA does not have the turn.

I have a few hats with the turn, but for me, the "turn" novelty has worn off and my next orders will be without the turn.
Having seen myself in photos with a crooked hat just makes me look more drunk than I already was when the photos were taken.

Either way, this is a great conversation.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:13 pm

You are correct. I don’t do the turn because of Indiana Jones anymore. I don’t even wear anything Jones related much. I just like hats and prefer the A2 over the Indy jacket anyday. I like the way the turn warps brims.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:11 am

I vote for no turn. I get the reason people want it but I do not go all out Indy costume. Just like the hats, jackets and boots. To be honest, do not like the tight front pinch on the Raiders fedora either and usually wear the other movie styles.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:58 am

+1

I echo what Glenville says above.

Regards! Michaelson

IndianaJustin · Post by **IndianaJustin** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:32 pm

For whatever it’s worth and no offense to those who disagree but the tight Raiders pinch is why I love that style the most. The idol grab hat is what I think of when I think of Indiana Jones hats. Not sure if it’s turned though, never payed attention to that.

Charybdis · Post by **Charybdis** » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:17 pm

These posts are a testament to what getting the gear is all about, you get what you want and there are myriad of ways to do that! Good luck!

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:25 am

Glenville86 wrote: I get the reason people want it but I do not go all out Indy costume.

Same here, except that’s why I like the turn. The Raiders hat was what got me into Indy gear, and I think the tight pinch looks good on me. I almost never wear more than one piece of gear when I’m going out, but I find, in the summer, a turned Raiders hat goes great with a warm-colored t-shirt and khakis.

alaska_mcghee · Post by **alaska_mcghee** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:33 am

Then there are people like me with an off center LO head shape. That means I always get a great looking “swoop” to the brims of all my hats. Whether I like it or not. Enjoy and embrace the option if you have it.
Johnny

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:05 am

I've never been a fan of the turn, and always request NO turn on any hats I order.

This is duplicating a quirk that his hat experienced in being twisted on his head after hours of sweat, dust, and physical abuse.

Thank heavens he didn't break a shoe lace or we'd all be wearing broken shoe strings in our Aldens!!!!

Regards! Michaelson

Howard Weinstein · Post by **Howard Weinstein** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:02 pm

Michaelson wrote: Thank heavens he didn't break a shoe lace or we'd all be wearing broken shoe strings in our Aldens!!!!

Regards! Michaelson

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:39 pm

Michaelson wrote:This is duplicating a quirk that his hat experienced in being twisted on his head after hours of sweat, dust, and physical abuse.

Well..yeah - that's the Raiders look: the look that people want when they get a Raiders hat, no?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:19 am

No, not always. That’s my point.

Regards! M

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:57 am

Maybe not the dust and the sweat, but imo, the crooked flair is an integral part of what makes the Raiders hat so iconic.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:23 am

Like I mentioned, if you are doing a cosplay Indy Raider's costume, a turned fedora looks fine in my opinion. Same with people trying to put wear on an expensive brand new jacket or boots....lol

I like the period looking clothing in the Indy movies to include different types of fedora hats. I don't go on intense adventures like the character in the movies and If I did, would wear maybe only the fedora vice the other gear as there are much better choices in clothing in modern times.

I really like the styles on the older casual clothing men wore like my grandfather who was born in 1900. I am sure he would come down from Heaven and kick my butt if he caught me antiquing, putting artificial wear or distorting any clothing to include a brand new fedora.

I think wearing and putting my own miles and character on my clothing to include Indy style gear is cool. I am also not a fan of buying clothing like jeans with holes already in them.....lol

Again, this is just me and I totally support the cosplay folks and anyone who is intent on duplicating a certain look from a movie. That is what makes the hobby fun. A bunch of folks with different takes on the series of movies and the gear.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:38 am

You and I speak the same language!

Regards! M

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:31 am

Glenville, I think you’re implying things about people who prefer the turn that simply aren’t true. You seem to associate the turn with people who cosplay - but I, someone who prefers the turn, don’t cosplay. I’ve never been to a convention, I don't apply fullers earth or artificial distressing to my gear, and I almost never wear more than one piece of gear at once.

Yet I still want my Raiders hat to have the turn because I like that slightly off-kilter look and, as I said earlier in the thread, it looks great with a t-shirt in summer months. It’s a nice way of making the fedora more casual.

You also seemed to hint that your desire not to have the turn is because you appreciate vintage style. But as Jeremiah pointed out, there WERE vintage hats that had the turn. It’s therefore not really fair to hint that your dislike for the turn is due to your appreciation for vintage style.

I suspect the real reason you don’t get hats with the turn is because you don’t like it and it doesn’t fit your sense of style - which is fine and dandy. As you yourself said, the variety of perspectives is one of the strengths of Indygear. But please don't make these assumptions about people who DO like the turn as you try to justify your position.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:49 pm

No turn. Usual to each their own caveat applies, natch. Just personally, I think it makes the hat look disheveled, with Fullers or no.

I don't know how common it was as an intentional way to distort the brim "back in the day." I've never seen anything that suggests it was a prevalent practice .

There certainly was a tradition of asymmetrical creases and brim treatments like the "Hollywood brim," but those are a bit easier on bound edge or welted edge hats (and vintage felt). I'm mostly strayed from brim down hats, so I took advantage of the flange in my Fortune and Glory to get a swoopy brim...also, this felt is very malleable. The off center dip actually started from my practice of cocking my hats to the left.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:24 pm

Mulceber wrote:Glenville, I think you’re implying things about people who prefer the turn that simply aren’t true. You seem to associate the turn with people who cosplay - but I, someone who prefers the turn, don’t cosplay. I’ve never been to a convention, I don't apply fullers earth or artificial distressing to my gear, and I almost never wear more than one piece of gear at once.

Yet I still want my Raiders hat to have the turn because I like that slightly off-kilter look and, as I said earlier in the thread, it looks great with a t-shirt in summer months. It’s a nice way of making the fedora more casual.

You also seemed to hint that your desire not to have the turn is because you appreciate vintage style. But as Jeremiah pointed out, there WERE vintage hats that had the turn. It’s therefore not really fair to hint that your dislike for the turn is due to your appreciation for vintage style.

I suspect the real reason you don’t get hats with the turn is because you don’t like it and it doesn’t fit your sense of style - which is fine and dandy. As you yourself said, the variety of perspectives is one of the strengths of Indygear. But please don't make these assumptions about people who DO like the turn as you try to justify your position.

Did not mean to offend or generalize people on the forum. I can say that I grew up around men born when these hats were in style and still worn by many of them. I never saw them put a turn on a new one. They wore them straight, tilted back or tilted to the side. Did see many ones that had very hard wear that had them distorted pretty bad. Many used one fedora to work in and one for dress like on Sunday's. Now, this is where I grew up in Appalachia around mostly the working poor. I will say that in other parts of the country, styles were different. The basis for my opinion was where I grew up and what the older men were wearing. My Dad's generation (born in the 30's) seemed to bypass hat wearing for the most part.

Again, did not mean to offend anyone here. Just sharing my personal experiences. If you like to turn your fedora or not is of no real concern to me.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:27 pm

Glenville86 wrote:Did not mean to offend or generalize people on the forum. I can say that I grew up around men born when these hats were in style and still worn by many of them. I never saw them put a turn on a new one. They wore them straight, tilted back or tilted to the side. Did see many ones that had very hard wear that had them distorted pretty bad. Many used one fedora to work in and one for dress like on Sunday's. Now, this is where I grew up in Appalachia around mostly the working poor. I will say that in other parts of the country, styles were different. The basis for my opinion was where I grew up and what the older men were wearing. My Dad's generation (born in the 30's) seemed to bypass hat wearing for the most part.

Again, did not mean to offend anyone here. Just sharing my personal experiences. If you like to turn your fedora or not is of no real concern to me.

We're cool.

Just felt like the last post was lumping all the fans of the turn into one or two small categories. I'm sorry if I came off as belligerent.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:57 pm

I have a few fedora where I did not get the center of the brim 100% in line with the center of the bash.

Could be considered a micro turn......

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:22 pm

Again, I just feel it's personal preference. That's it. I'm not really sure there's any debate haha. It's just a style preference.

I love the "turn" and the warped brim it presents. Especially as someone that does not have an oval head, it's hard to get that unless I do the turn. It's a great look and obviously we all love it because wow..... HF just pulls that off as the awesome action hero he is.

That being said, for me personally it doesn't work for any type of classy fedora wear. That's just me. I mean, I've rarely seen it in old movies and pictures. The closest I've ever seen it oddly enough was a Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes movie where he's wearing a very very beaten up fedora which oddly has a very Raiders look too it (stove top sides, warped brim, etc).

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the turn. It works for some, it doesn't for others. For a rough about hat, I think it's fine. If I'm going to work wearing a tie and a fedora, I prefer a more classic look.

Again, like I told the original poster. It depends on what you want and also, why not have two? One without and one with? Best of both worlds.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:51 pm

love the turn. its presence precedes Indiana Jones and obviously HF has good tastes as its probably his idea to play with the hat to get the effect.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:30 am

I say go for the turn!

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:26 am

What's the reference for the turn showing up before the films?

A non-trivial part of post-war marketing and industry standards was devoted to the idea of better conforming sweatbands. The most widely known and marketed was Resistol's "floating" sweatband attachment, for example. Although conformers were designed with stiff felt hats in mind, by this time, they certainly were in use by custom hatters and neighborhood hat shops to conform hats to a person's headshape. In other words, hats were designed with the intention that they would sit straight on your head, conforming in order to do so.

Obviously I can only speculate, but it seems to me that "the turn" would not have occurred to somebody in that time and place of history as an intentional means to distort the brim. Not only would they have had a hat with felt that was more malleable than what we have today, but the culture of headwear and attire was just different. Nobody intentionally added holes to their jeans either. Just because there may be photos of people with frayed denim back then, it doesn't mean the 80's trend (and now current again) of frayed denim harkens back to 19th or early 20th century fashion.

Like I said,the turn may have happened incidentally, but I've never seen any evidence that this was either a widespread practice, or a documented practice to achieve the desired effect. If someone has reference to the contrary, I'm open to learning something new.

AttyOzzy · Post by **AttyOzzy** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:34 pm

The Emperor wears pre-distressed clothes! LOL. Just kidding. Feeling giddy on a Saturday morning.

Personally, I see value in distressing and non-distressing, turning and not turning. I have Indy fedoras that turn and don't.

I have always enjoyed putting my own miles on the gear as well. I once had a leather jacket (long before I discovered the Indy jackets) that took me from high school all the way to grad school. It had been everywhere from Plymouth, MA, to the Ozarks, Europe, hiking in Scotland (no one told us about the rain - dumb kids we were) and back again for a few years in Boston.

Over the course of 10 years it aged well and endured all life could throw at it. By the time it was due for retirement, I could identify most of the marks, scratches, and wear marks. Heck, retiring that jacket was almost as hard as putting down the family dog. Well, not quite, but you get the idea.

Had I pre-distressed the jacket, I feel like it would have prematurely gotten "a jump on me" and perhaps undergone the appearance of adventure well before I was able to provide the jacket with the same by way of experience, exploration, and personal growth. These of course are only my thoughts, and it is nice to share. I do appreciate one's desire to have an accurate looking Indy jacket/hat/etc. without having or wanting to wait 10 years to get the desired look.

Long live the memories we make, the people we meet, and the gear that gets us through the journeys.

IndianaJustin · Post by **IndianaJustin** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:43 pm

I searched and couldn't find if there is a thread that identifies, scene by scene in Raiders, where the fedora is turned and where it might not be. Could someone direct me to this if it even exists?

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:42 pm

I mean, obviously I'm not against an asymmetrical brim. If the turn works for you, go for it! I'm more interested in making hats my own than replicating every last detail. And that's fine! That's the wonderful thing about quality open crown hats. And full disclosure, I own a "relic" guitar that was artificially aged (well, technically I have a replica of Joe Strummer's guitar that was unpainted in parts to match the lack of a paint job) so I'm not even taking a stand against artificial aging per se.

I just don't think we need to invent a historical connection to justify "the turn."

I asked around the The Fedora Lounge if anybody had a reference to it, because now I'm genuinely curious about it, and nothing concrete has come up. There are pictures of hats which essentially looked turned here and there, but the one that was posted wasn't creased off center, as there was a previous crease mark over the wearer's eye, which seemed to indicate the hat kind of 'drifted' into a turn rather than was placed on someone's head, turned, then creased as if it were straight. Of course, nobody (myself included, natch) can divine people's intentions from old photos.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:53 pm

Little off topic, but was the grey CS hat originally made with a turn? I have two AB train hats from Steve, and one is straight, while the other is noticeably off center. Rewatching the train scene, I swear the hat isn't symmetrical on Ford either...?

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:44 am

Best I recall no other Indy hats beyond ROLA had a turn.

And it's worth restating the 'turn' is a term COW coined in talking about the nuances of the ROLA hat, particularly the SOC scenes.

If HF's train hat seems off center in CS my guess is he may have given it a little twist for the chase scenes to help secure it. I've done the same with my non-turned fedoras on windy days. Just a little twist really locks it on my noggin.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:05 am

I stand corrected

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:39 pm

Indiana Jeff wrote:Best I recall no other Indy hats beyond ROLA had a turn.

And it's worth restating the 'turn' is a term COW coined in talking about the nuances of the ROLA hat, particularly the SOC scenes.

If HF's train hat seems off center in CS my guess is he may have given it a little twist for the chase scenes to help secure it. I've done the same with my non-turned fedoras on windy days. Just a little twist really locks it on my noggin.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Also, didn't the AB guys state they tried to get a more "Raiders look/turn" involved in CS and SS/Hf said no? I could be remembering wrong as it's been over a decade.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:38 pm

You remember correctly, backstagejack, and actually it wasn't the turn, but the whole Raiders 'style' with tight pinch. They just didn't want to repeat that look as that hat was from 1936, and they were moving into 1957.

I was live on email with Steve when that meeting was going on between him, Ford, and SS in a phone conference call.

Ford EMPHATICALLY stated in colorful phrasing he wouldn't wear the first hat presented, and I thought Steve was going to fall through the floor!

Needless to say I cleaned that up, as this is a family site.

Here's what Steve himself said about it back in 2008:

have 4 sets of Raiders block these days. To meet expectations of the customer. If the guy wants a hat that has a bit of caricature, I use one block. If he wants a little taper like some of the Raiders fedora sported, I use another. If he wants a SOC, I have a block for that too, courtesy of LLS, although he has tweaked that block since he made me one to replicate. Than I have this vintage block that I personally prefer, and used on the above hats. I never gave this Michaelson block much thought, until I used it for a Raiders fedora to see what it would yield. I did this right before I made the gray travel hat for CS. Just to see if Ford fiddled with the gray hat, IF, it would have a Raiders look about it. It did, and I chose it for the gray travel hat in CS.

So he was hoping with Ford's practice of 'fiddling' with his own hats during a shoot (as we've seen him do), he hoped it MIGHT take on the Raiders shape on its own.

Regards! Michaelson