Raider’s Lining Question...

[Stefan Hills]

What’s the general opinion on the lining used on the Raider’s jackets. Polyester or cotton?

I vote polyester...


Note the tell tell shine,
Thoughts?
Also, what size does one select for an image size when posting via Tapatalk? Thank you.




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[Jeremiah]

Rayon?
Silk?

[Mulceber]

I’m going to go with cotton that’s reflecting the light in an unusual way.

[Kladdagh]

Cotton for me ...

[distantpeople]

This shiny lining is all cotton and feels much better that any synthetic:

[Stefan Hills]

A little comparison, two screen images and two examples of polyester blend linings.



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[Mulceber]

Eh, I'm still pretty sure it's cotton:

1. IIRC, Peter said that the original linings were cotton.
2. One of the reasons Deborah Nadoolman preferred a Lambskin jacket was because it would be more comfortable for Harrison in all the hot locales they were taking him to. Giving the jacket a polyester lining would cancel that out.
3. When Tony Nowak made his reproduction of the Raiders jacket based on his examination of a screen-used Raiders jacket, he made the lining out of cotton. BK, going from one of his jackets, has also given their Relic Hunter a cotton lining.
4. distantpeople has shown you a picture of a cotton lining reacting to light like that. Here's another:



In fact, I think this picture captures something of the graininess of the fabric I detect in that screen grab more than the polyester blends do.

[Jeremiah]

Like Data always said,

Cheap polyester coats.

[Stefan Hills]

Eh, I'm still pretty sure it's cotton:

1. IIRC, Peter said that the original linings were cotton.
2. One of the reasons Deborah Nadoolman preferred a Lambskin jacket was because it would be more comfortable for Harrison in all the hot locales they were taking him to. Giving the jacket a polyester lining would cancel that out.
3. When Tony Nowak made his reproduction of the Raiders jacket based on his examination of a screen-used Raiders jacket, he made the lining out of cotton. BK, going from one of his jackets, has also given their Relic Hunter a cotton lining.
4. distantpeople has shown you a picture of a cotton lining reacting to light like that. Here's another:



In fact, I think this picture captures something of the graininess of the fabric I detect in that screen grab more than the polyester blends do.

Not to be argumentative or anything but I have a Nowak Raider’s jacket from the 888 jackets that were to be made, and the lining is not cotton. Both the Temple and Last Crusade jackets have had cheap thin polyester linings, so it would be reasonable to assume this would be the case with Raider’s jackets or some of them. The Terry Leonard jacket, from the truck stunt, that found it’s way into the Noel Howard collection had a thin flat polyester not cotton lining.

[Mulceber]

I stand corrected then. Sorry about that, could have sworn the Nowak ones were cotton.

[BrandonA18]

The film used Raiders jackets I have handled do not have cotton linings - they are polyester or a similar synthetic fabric.

Brandon

[CM]

Tony Nowak - quoted here at some point stated that he was using a poly-twill or parachute material that was much stronger and "an improvement" on the film jacket he saw.

Interesting information, Brandon. Sure I had read that the jackets had a cotton lining and that Peter had said this too. But then, Peter struggled to remember the pattern until the Nowak pattern reminded him of it.

I have a Wested jacket with a cotton Silesia lining that has a sheen like the most plastic poly lining.

[Mark Raats]

Brandon would be considered the expert here because he has spent far more time with the costumes than any of us have.

MARK

[xmasters]

If it wasn't cotton, isn't this a bit of new revelation? As all the claimed accurate replic Raiders jackets have and claim a cotton lining.

[Stefan Hills]

Brandon would be considered the expert here because he has spent far more time with the costumes than any of us have.

MARK

Absolutely!

[Jeremiah]

Makes sense.

Even wartime A-2s were said to be lined with silk at first, then as materials were needed more for parachutes and such, the cotton drill lining replaced it. That said, I prefer cotton.

[Mulceber]

If it wasn't cotton, isn't this a bit of new revelation? As all the claimed accurate replic Raiders jackets have and claim a cotton lining.

Sounds like it. Although I think I'll sacrifice screen accuracy in this instance and stick with cotton linings.

[Stefan Hills]

I think this is the take away, at least for me. The jackets were costumes except for the ones in KOTCS, Tony made those for both production and customer alike to be both as a costume and a tough as nails everyday jacket. But putting a poly blend lining does not take away the ruggedness of an Indy jacket. There is a number of blends that breathe and feel amazing, and makes wearing the jacket easier especially when wearing long sleeves, plus it is more accurate. The screen used lining is very similar to the thin polyester lining you see in a suite jacket, and that’s not a practical choice for very day wear but makes sense for the temporary nature of a film shoot. My favorite was the dacron twill lining Flight Suites used on their Expedition jackets. The question I was left with was why was there a deviation from this norm? There is a number of details that make each jacket in the series different, but one common element is the lining and that being all 4 jackets used a poly blend for lining and that should be a standard if a vendor claims an Indy jacket is a screen accurate representation that is offered to the fan or customer.

[xmasters]

If it wasn't cotton, isn't this a bit of new revelation? As all the claimed accurate replic Raiders jackets have and claim a cotton lining.

Sounds like it. Although I think I'll sacrifice screen accuracy in this instance and stick with cotton linings.

I suppose it's not the most important thing as long as it looks the right colour. I was thinking of ordering my next jacket with a more luxury lining anway, regardless of if it was accurate or not.

[Cajunkraut]

If it wasn't cotton, isn't this a bit of new revelation? As all the claimed accurate replic Raiders jackets have and claim a cotton lining.

My thoughts exactly. Curious as to why this hasn't come to light before now.

Think of all of those Raiders repros that'll need relining...

[CM]

Brandon would be considered the expert here because he has spent far more time with the costumes than any of us have.

MARK

No disrespect intended but even if Brandon held those jackets in his hands he could still be mistaken.

My cotton lining looks more like polyester lining than my polyester linings.

I personally prefer the poly-twill used by G&B too and have had that material put in a range of other leather jackets over the years.

Is it just Peter that told us the lining was cotton or did Tony say it too?

[Tibor]

There was the story of Harrison being uncomfortable with the original linings and having them replaced during filming, but that goes back a ways...

[Nosirrah]

Interesting discussion. Complex, but not as hopelessly so as the issue of hides, let alone hats. Possibly manageable, even. "Authenticity" is one of the most contested terms out there these days. What I see here (and on COW in general), is at least three, maybe four perspectives on authenticity:
1. What would have been available/typical when the action of the film is set (no polyester in 1937, but think of all those silk-lined Flying Tiger jackets);
2. What the costumers actually used in creating the object often because they were under pressure (were there aluminum zippers in 1937?);
3. The aesthetic effect the costumers were trying to create, (aforementioned aluminum zipper, painted to look like brass);
4. What the inherent properties of the object "should" be: rugged, easy to put on and move around in, not stiflingly hot, you name it-- especially when it's your jacket.

It becomes nearly impossible not to talk at cross purposes, unless you're framing your reality along these lines, up front. And some terms raise as many questions as they answer. "Screen used" in Hawaii? Tunisia? Truck chase? "Screen accurate" for what was spec'd, or delivered, or modified on set? Is "cinematic reality" the illusion in front of the camera, or the nitty-gritty off-screen details? And what constitutes acceptable evidence of either? Screen caps? Reminiscences? Studio receipts? Certificates of authenticity?
One thing is clear: the filmmakers weren't thinking for the ages. Maybe they were making it up as they went along. God bless 'em, they sure made for a lively forum.
As you may have guessed, this is mostly just me trying to get my bearings.

[donovan]

i read the temple of doom jackets were re-lined due to sizing issues. I have a G&B expo with the poly liner and it slides about all over the place when wearing it unzipped much the same way the raiders jacket Ford was wearing during the flying wing fight scene does, so maybe that had the poly liner

[CM]

i read the temple of doom jackets were re-lined due to sizing issues. I have a G&B expo with the poly liner and it slides about all over the place when wearing it unzipped much the same way the raiders jacket Ford was wearing during the flying wing fight scene does, so maybe that had the poly liner

Nah. My G&B doesn't slide. But most jackets do if you thrash about like HF in the film. The Indy jacket was poorly patterned hence the odd fit.

The ToD jackets were supposedly relined because HF put on bulk and/ or he hated synthetic liners.

[Indiego Jones]

If it wasn't cotton, isn't this a bit of new revelation? As all the claimed accurate replic Raiders jackets have and claim a cotton lining.

Not all of them....Todd's were correct since day 1.

Is it just Peter that told us the lining was cotton or did Tony say it too?

IIRC, it was Peter who confirmed the original Raiders lining as "dark brown cotton silesia".
I can't remember if Tony said anything about it. But, according to the jackets he did, the cotton was the default choice.

Brandon would be considered the expert here because he has spent far more time with the costumes than any of us have.

MARK

No disrespect intended but even if Brandon held those jackets in his hands he could still be mistaken.

My cotton lining looks more like polyester lining than my polyester linings.

If the lining on Raiders jackets was the same fabric that on the ToD jackets (lightweight dark brown polyester), can't be mistaken as cotton. No way.
Just take an early Wested ToD replica. On those, Peter nailed the original ToD lining.

This is a huge discovery to us.
I've been looking HD screencaps since this thread started. Red eyes...
And I'm really starting to be convinced that it was the same ToD lining, indeed. No cotton.

Screencaps are not entirely reliable, but continuity purpose between movies can be a solid reason.-

[Michaelson]

There was the story of Harrison being uncomfortable with the original linings and having them replaced during filming, but that goes back a ways...

That was during Temple of Doom.

donovan said:read the temple of doom jackets were re-lined due to sizing issues. I have a G&B expo with the poly liner and it slides about all over the place when wearing it unzipped much the same way the raiders jacket Ford was wearing during the flying wing fight scene does, so maybe that had the poly liner

When asked directly, Peter ALWAYS said the original jacket linings were cotton, and he always referred to the Raiders lambskin as his 'summer weight jacket' in sales. I've always believed him, but that said, I was also not naive enough NOT to think there was a possibility it was what he had on hand to sell. If it were me, that's what I'd tell potential customers too.

Regards! Michaelson