David Morgan Whips still worth it?

[Wade Egan]

I'm posting because I'm a little confused about my whip. In 2014 I purchased a brand new 453 from the David Morgan Website thinking it was an investment sort of. Cost me $875 with shipping (I have the receipts and paperwork). I did the same thing I have done for my own whips and for many other people in the past and broke in the whip with my special skills. For reference if you don't already know I have a good bit of experience (30+ years) with leather and Indy gear leather in particular. In my opinion, my work took this whip from being just another natural colored brand new whip to looking like a super cool looking Indy whip. Which was my intention. In fact, when I first posted it for sale on a FB page a very well known whip artist hit me up the same day drooling over the whip cause he said it looked like an fantastic 'early 90's DM' and he really wanted it and was ready to lay down $900 for it which he said 'was a steal and too good to be true.' I told him it was nearly new and purchased in 2014 and he took back his offer with a quickness. Which I understand since he was looking for a 90's DM. But if it looks so awesome why no interest and why am I taking such a huge hit? Again, I'm confused and wondering if I'm crazy. Of course, I wonder about that in general anyway.

Now, I have been disabled by an auto accident and cannot actually throw whips properly or without pain so I cracked this one maybe 20 times. Well I haven't been able find work and I'm in a bind so I put the whip up for sale because I can't eat the whip. So I'm a little confused as to why virtually nobody is interested in the whip at even $650. I was under the impression that purchasing that whip was an investment and I only made it better. So I'm wondering if the David Morgan whips nowadays are a complete rip off at nearly $900? Has the David Morgan brand and value died as well? Don't get me wrong, I love the whip. I think it's beautiful and everyone who's ever seen it says how beautiful it is. Nothing in my shop gets more attention, and I can't bring myself to take that big of a hit either, and that irks me a little cause it feels like I got taken for a ride on this one.

Figured this was the best place to get some opinions. I can't figure out or remember how to post photos and I erased my Facebook page where there were some photos. I've photographed it in HDR to help sell it. Maybe somebody can refresh my memory as to how to put a picture in a post on this site? I haven't worked on websites in years and I've forgotten everything.

I welcome your opinions on the matter.


Thank you,

Wade Egan

[Michaelson]

Not visiting the whip section much myself, I do know Mr. Morgan passed away in 2015, and from information shared by others here, he had pretty much stopped making whips himself a few years prior to his death, so though you have a DM in name, it was more than likely NOT made by the man himself.

Folks like provenance, and are willing to pay for it. When it comes to items that just have the name, but not so much the actual 'hands on' connection to the maker, the price drops like a rock when you enter the 'secondary' or 'used' market, which is what your whip is, regardless of how nice it is.

It's also the amount of time that has passed since Indy was riding high in public interest. Where things stand now, and as has been posted in another thread on site, some kids these days don't even know who Indiana Jones is! So, once again, interest in items like an 'Indy' connected whip just isn't there anymore.

It's a super narrow collector market now.

They're more interested in the fedora and jacket, but not so much the items connected to the character....and even THAT isn't set in stone. Nowak jackets no longer draw in the high prices they used to after Tony passed away. They're used clothing, even NOS items, and people are just now realizing there never WAS investment possibility there, unless you found someone in this hobby with money that just HAD to have your item. Like I said above, it's a VERY narrow market these days.

That, at least, has been my experience with things like this in the crazy hobby we share.

Hate to be a wet blanket, but that's how things work in this collector field, and has been that way for a while.

Don't give up hope, though. At any time you could just have someone hit your sale and throw money at you to get your whip. Things like that happen all the time too!

Regards! Michaelson

[Cajunkraut]

You'll probably have better luck on eBay or Etsy, Wade. The market exposure alone exponentially increases the chance of a sale. Then with a little patience, you'll find that person with the cash who just can't live without your Morgan.

Good luck!

[zhund]

A few years ago my wife wanted to get me a present for being promoted at work - anything I wanted. So I said I wanted a David Morgan kangaroo Indy whip. That was 2011 or so. At that time, I had bought a few books and watched the choice tutorials on YouTube, culminating in my first homemade paracord whip. I also had a Crease n Corral (cow) from Dusty, which I think is awesome.

When I got the DM whip, at first I was in awe, but after looking it over very closely I noticed several things that looked like flaws when compared to Dusty's whip. Basically there was a noticeable kink whenever the strands dropped, and the Turks head at the handle wasn't neatly cut. I took photos and sent an email to DM customer service, then said I'd like to stop by their store in Washington while I was going to be in town on business and pick one out myself if that was ok. I thought maybe this one just slipped thru the quality control process or something.

A day or two later I got a call from David Morgan's son, who said there was nothing wrong with the whip and he didn't really want to talk about me picking one out in exchange. I can't say he was rude, but it wasn't exactly a pleasant conversation. So I returned the whip and my wife ordered one from Joseph Strain (roo). When that arrived, it was perfect - seamless transitions and very tight knots, and that was a few hundred dollars less to boot. I've since added a Midwest (roo) that is equally fantastic, again better than the DM I received.

So I don't know what the older DM whips were like, but I was not happy with what I saw as the current offering. Just my personal experience.

[backstagejack]

I've owned a few whips in my time, a Strain and a creasencorral. I can't speak for DM. Maybe the reputation has waned since Morgan's death. and per the description above that might be the case.

I can say that I don't own either whip anymore because I sold them due to financial issues. I can't speak for everyone on this board but.... in this day and age who can blow 600 bucks on a whip? A lot of people in this hobby would rather spend 80 bucks on a costume whip.

I'd love to have another one, I mean love to have one.... but it's not in the cards. I've sold 99% of all my indy gear. I just refuse to sell my Azuma shirt, Noel Howard purchased Mrk VII and my Wade Egan ( ) LC strap cause it's all I have left.

I'd gladly buy it but a luxury item like that is just not in my budget atm and I'm not sure the market right now is great for it considering.

I do agree that trying ebay or etsy is a better bet then just Facebook or the Cairo Bazaar. But selling stuff in general online is a lot of work. Posting it, keeping up with it, if it doesn't sell you have to re list it and pay a tiny bit.

As Michaelson pointed out, Indy items aren't in high demand right now... but if IF the new Indy flick is ever made, I bet that thing will sell like hotcakes.

[Chewbacca Jones]

in this day and age who can blow 600 bucks on a whip? A lot of people in this hobby would rather spend 80 bucks on a costume whip.

I'd gladly buy it but a luxury item like that is just not in my budget atm and I'm not sure the market right now is great for it considering.

I'd say this is big factor. Things are much tighter for everyone right now, so even selling stuff between us gearheads has slowed to a crawl. I took a big hit on a recent jacket sale, and I haven't been able to sell a CS Flashlight replica, after some 6 months!!
Every time I come across any Indy item I want, big or small, I agonize over the decision for days, I don't take chances that it won't fit or not be a good as I hoped. We are all hurting (some more than others), forcing many of us to become spectators of the hobby, rather than collectors.

The law of supply and demand. Everybody needs to sell, but nobody is buying.

[Michaelson]

Speaking strictly for myself, I have NEVER owned an Indy 'roo bullwhip, after all these years!

Sure I always wanted one....but I could never justify the cost when I could just as well invest the exact same monies in a good revolver that I KNEW would gain in value. THAT was, and still IS, an investment that can only gain in value over time, and has been the argument that has always won me over anytime I was tempted.

This, of course, doesn't help in easing the confusion, but it may add another data point to the discussion.

Regards! Michaelson

[Cajunkraut]

So I don't know what the older DM whips were like, but I was not happy with what I saw as the current offering. Just my personal experience.

Zhund, I think you've pretty much spotlighted the elephant in the room. Morgan whips may have slipped to the status of Wested jackets for which the provenance overshadows the current reality. It's clear that there are less expensive whip options that many consider superior to the Morgan.

Another thing to remember is that Morgan whips generally have looser braiding than others. This is evident in both the plaiting and the way the whip coils up smaller than any other, even when brand new.

[Tyrloch]

In a nutshell, people are cheap. Most don't know a good deal when they see one. It's probably not that there isn't any interest, just that there's no interest in paying anything close to what it's worth. I'd wager if you dropped the price ridiculously low you'd get some inquiries. I've had a BK Relic Hunter in horsehide listed in the bazaar at almost half of what it goes for new, and not even a nibble. That's nearly a $1200 jacket for $600 with no wait time! Most people want a bottle of 20 year old single malt for the price of a glass of water. I'm sure some here will disagree, but they will most likely be the aforementioned cheapos. This is generally speaking: I'm aware that some people are just plain broke. But the others? They're skulking around waiting for the price to come way down, and then they'll try to haggle it even lower than that. And I'm sorry to hear the reasons why you needed to attempt to sell the whip in the first place...

[Michaelson]

You're talking about an even narrower field of sale, Tyrloch.

YOU had to find a buyer who could fit your jacket specifications and size, THEN justify the price for that piece of used and customized clothing to that potential buyer.

You will always have folks who want the best deal they can get, and always will. Right now it's a buyers market, and you're at the mercy of the buyer.

I also had several items for sale last month, and every item fell off the end of the calendar. All but the AB fedora I offered were OTR sizes and materials, and nothing custom. I didn't have a single inquiry, and I priced mine at 1/4 the original price, so you're not the Lone Ranger.

Folks are just not buying right now.

Regard! M

[Tyrloch]

Exactly! People are cheap! I understand that a jacket has a size constraint, while an item like a whip is more one size fits all. But a size 40R is one of the more common sizes, and not even a nibble! So not exactly the same, but similar. And I saw the prices you had some of your stuff listed for: they should've sold at those prices..

[Michaelson]

I thought so too, but apparently we both guessed wrong.

Regards! M

[RedburnIV]

Unfortunately, the whips made by David's hands will hold their value, more so than the ones offered after his passing. Sorry you're struggling to sell it but time and place can be a factor. I'm sure the right person will come along and be very pleased with it.

[darthjones2]

Interesting. Myself, I have two Morgan whips, 10' 1984 and 12' 1987. Both of them are still at the top of anything I have cracked since including Dusty, Terry Jacka, Midwest, etc. BUT - I have not had the chance to handle or crack anything Morgan that was not made by David himself. I doubt there was any kind of a fall off in quality up there since they all worked so very closely together (as others took over the crafting with David still around) but I have not had the chance to actually make that comparison.

[Wade Egan]

Thanks dudes! All good information as usual.

W

[WhipDude]

I agree with a lot of what has been said.

But I want to point something out. Are you asking $900 for it? How long is the whip? Because a new 8 footer is just $860. A 10 footer is only $1,015. And as mentioned, it is not from David Morgan and a used whip to make matters worse.

But especially agree with Michaelson on a particular point. It's a super narrow market. Even the vintage Morgans are not guaranteed to go for a high price. I watch ebay closely and there have been a handful of Morgans the past two years that did poorly. Another whip artist on here, Canasta (aka The Whip Guy), had a beautiful vintage Morgan. You know it was properly cared for because it was in his hands. He asked other whip artists who understood the value of the whip. They gave him a price I expected. However, Bullwhip Borton told him that he might get more money out of it if he found that one person within the Indiana Jones world who will pay his asking price rather than the whip cracking community. Because honestly, I can have a current whip maker make me one brand new and for less and I don't have to feel guilty about using it.

[Tibor]

Interesting. Myself, I have two Morgan whips, 10' 1984 and 12' 1987. Both of them are still at the top of anything I have cracked since including Dusty, Terry Jacka, Midwest, etc. BUT - I have not had the chance to handle or crack anything Morgan that was not made by David himself. I doubt there was any kind of a fall off in quality up there since they all worked so very closely together (as others took over the crafting with David still around) but I have not had the chance to actually make that comparison.

I agree, the earlier whips made by David are very nice. I've tried most makers over the years and now only hold Morgan's from the 1990s and Strains. Morgans have always had a more rugged, slightly courser look than Joe's. Morgans are also heavier to wield, they roll out nice but are a little heavy for my preference. But the link to Indy is a big plus.

I do wish Morgan would make an anniversary Raiders model with the proper handle length.

[Gater]

The value of the whole hobby has taken a downward spiral. I have literally an entire storage locker of bins of an Indy collection. Acme Headpiece, Magnoli grail, an entire Nathans and Bermans (sp?) costume, DM whip, statues, figures, books, posters, magazines, boxes upon boxes of collectibles and unless the 2019 film is a hit, it'll stay priced at a fraction of what I paid for it all. I have Sideshow statues that cost me almost a thousand dollars a piece, and I couldn't get half of that on ebay if I tired.

That's the funny thing about the collector hobby. 11 years a go, I got 8K for a 440 Dodge Challenger. Today, I'd pull in closer to 20K easily, even in the condition it was in. Markets fluctuate. As Michaelson mentioned, provenance is a big thing, too.

[Charybdis]

Yeah, hang on to it until summer 2019 and. d then see what happens...Course that won't put food on your table now.

[rafferty74]

Just about a year ago, after many happy years of owning a 10 ft Strain, I decided I wanted a pocket whip that I could carry with me wherever I went. So after spending a LOT of time reading through these forums, I found someone (can't remember his name) who recommended a dog quirt from David Morgan. He had changed the split double-lash the quirt came with for a white hide fall, and said it cracked amazingly well. I decided I would give it a try.

So I placed my order online at David Morgan. I had expected to get a conformation email, but none came. I waited a few days, and after I still had not received any sort of conformation, I called David Morgan, to ask if my order had gone through. Again, I don't remember the name of the man I talked to, but after explaining what had happened, he told me that I might need to check the spam folder in my email, that a lot of times their conformation emails end up in the spam box. He then checked for me, and said that they did get my order, and an email had been sent. I thanked him, he thanked me for the order, and we hung up. He was polite and professional , if a bit straight-forward.

I found the conformation email, and now I had an order number I could use to check the status of my order on the David Morgan site. When I looked, it said the quirt was back-ordered until a date about 3 weeks away. That was fine, I assumed that was the time they needed to make the quirt. I settled in to wait, getting more and more excited as the date approached. When the day finally arrived, I kept checking the site to see if my order status had changed. It hadn't changed, and did not change for several days after the date stated. I also checked my email (both inbox and spam) for any info on my order. Nothing. After waiting a week past the date they set, I wrote them an email, along the lines of, "Hey, I ordered this quirt, you said it was back-ordered until this date that past a week ago, can you give me any update on what is happening?" The very same day, I got a friendly email back saying, "We just finished your quirt, and we just put it in the mail today. You'll be getting a tracking number soon."

Now, I will admit that maybe that is the way that it happened, but also have to think that maybe the quirt was sitting there waiting until someone noticed that it hadn't been shipped to anybody yet.

So finally, it arrived at my house, and I got to unbox it. Exciting! On the one hand, it was solidly built. For being flexable end to end, I felt it was nicely stiff, and tightly braided, which was very nice after reading so often in these forums that Morgan whips tend to be more loose than other whips. I also really liked the weight of it. For a tiny two-and-a-half feet of whip, it had some nice heft. I was pretty pleased with it.

On the other, the heel knot was oddly mis-shapen. The best way to describe it would be to say that there is an odd dent in the knot. Given the Morgan reputation, I was surpised, but after the long wait, it didn't bother me too much. Besides, when I held the whip, my finger fit into this groove in the knot perfectly, so I said, "Cool, it was made just for me!"

Then, after a month or so of cracking it, one of the strands on the knot began to loosen and slip over the end of the heel, towards the wrist loop. I was really disappointed when that happened, because I could see how this loose lace could continue getting worse, and I was worried the entire knot might unravel. I considered trying to send it for a repair, or have the knot tightened, but after my experience with ordering it, I instead bought some fiebings leather glue, and fixed it myself. I am happy to say that the glue held the strand in place perfectly, and I have had no problems since. However, if you read through this forum enough, you will see that David Morgan (should I be saying the David Morgan Company?) has this almost legendary status as a whipmaker, and I expected the whole experience, from ordering to the finished product, to be perfect.

I will say that whoever the person is that I can't remember the name of was absolutly right, and this quirt with the fall replaced makes an awesome pocket whip. It cracks easily and loudly. If any of you want a little whip to play with, I say go for it. I love my David Morgan quirt.

But I also wouldn't buy a whip from them again. Prices aside, they didn't quite win me over. Unlike Joe Strain, who, if he was still accepting orders for whips, would get my business every time. As spring is finally rolling in, and I am getting the whip bug again, I am lookong to buy another whip, and am thinking of Midwest Whips (I have one of his little snapper bullwhips. Awesome!) or looking into Trinity Whips.

[whipwarrior]

I just received my DM dog quirt this weekend, and it's fantastic! I wanted to get another pocket shotwhip to play with like the signal whip I had back in the day. Even though this one isn't made by Morgan himself, the guy in their braiding shop did an excellent job copying David's style. The plaiting is smooth, even, and the whip has the same solid heft that I remember from 20 years ago. The conical base knot is a bit rough, with thick, unbeveled strands. That's where the quality diverges from a vintage Morgan - he always laid his heel knot strands perfectly parallel, creating a glass-smooth knot. The whip arrived exactly one month after I placed the order, and I am presently awaiting delivery of a new 3-foot bridle leather fall from MakeItJones in England. This will be a great little whip for target work, cracking indoors on a rainy day, and carrying as a defense weapon when taking my dogs for walks (the shotwhip can be worn discreetly in your belt loops beneath your shirt, concealed for quick deployment in a flick). I also bought it to tide me over while I'm awaiting my Zorro bullwhip from Giovanni Celeste.

[RayROnline]

[quote="whipwarrior"]I just received my DM dog quirt this weekend, and it's fantastic! I wanted to get another pocket shotwhip to play with like the signal whip I had back in the day. .../quote]


Please tell me what is a shotwhip? I didn't see that on the DM page. Got any pics to share?

[whipwarrior]

https://www.davidmorgan.com/shop/product/180/dog-quirt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here it is with the new fall attached:





Very first thing I did was the sidearm figure-8... and promptly lashed the #### out of myself! Once I figured out the speed of the fall (it's a bit 'floaty'), everything fell into place. Anyway, it's a fun little snapping whip to provide hours of amusement on rainy days, or when it's too hot outside.