"collectable" jackets....

[Texan Scott]

It is interesting how short expanses of time change things for collectors in this niche, and this does represent a niche market. There was a time when you had about three choices, Wested, G&B or USW. Keppler was very involved in the process early on, as to fan repros. In the not too distant past, say 2008, Novak quickly became a big supplier and almost as quickly, was not in the mix anymore. Some of the mains that we have come to rely on, are or have drifted, such as Todd's or G&B. Does anyone know if Todd has dropped out of the game?

I was fortunate to land a Todd's Standard jacket just before Christmas, and passed it on to a new member. But I have noticed that you hardly see a Todd's old pattern traded anymore.

..."they come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go."

All the better to find what you like and hold on to it, no?

[Michaelson]

I'm getting to come to the same conclusion, Tex.

I've given away so many jackets in the past 30+ years, I no longer try to count them up, as it serves no purpose.

That said, I believe I've slowed to the point of a crawl, as though I attempted to sell it last year, I'm now happy I did NOT sell my USW's roo jacket, as the Legend pattern size large fits me like it was tailor made for me. I really like that jacket, and it has a few personal stories now that make it more than just a 'collectable' artifact in my collection.

So, I'm getting to the point of having a few old 'favorites' in the closet, and not much else.

Regards! Michaelson

[Glenville86]

I went on a jacket kick for a few years and have around 20

Different makers and skins. Do not look at any as a "collectable" jacket unless it is the ones no longer made like the G&B in goat and lamb. Maybe a few US Wings that are no longer made. Have one older model by Wested I bought used in new condition that I cannot identify the leather (might be goat). All the rest are still made.

[Michaelson]

One thing to also keep in mind is that, other than in our small group and our opinion, these are ONLY considered 'used clothing' in the resale market.

They really have no true 'collector' value what-so-ever.

Regards! M

[kozmoedave]

I've been coming here for only a year and a half, maybe two, but I can certainly understand where you're coming from. I'm just thankful we still have the makers we currently do, or guys like me would be out of luck. While I'd love to have all kinds of jackets (in particular; it's my favorite piece of Indy's gear) from different makers and leathers, circumstances and finances will only allow so many. My goal is to pick up select pieces and hold onto them (provided they fit well when I get them). As I said earlier in the Todd's thread, luckily I got one not long before they ran out and I'm not letting go of the thing.

[Indiana Jeff]

All the better to find what you like and hold on to it, no?

Has been my philosophy from the start. I never got into chasing the "newest, greatest jacket." There's plenty of great makers out there, but I don't need a closet full of Indy jacket clones. At present I have three and feel like that's too many at times. I don't considering any of them 'collectible' with the exception of my first, a Wested my Bride got me for our anniversary back in 2000, but that has everything to do with her and nothing to do with Indy.

I picked up a USW Bison when that hide was introduced (my second Indy jacket ever) and then sold it to pick up a G&B in goat that has passed through many hands around here. Similarly I picked up second-hand a USW Legend in roo due to the unusual hide option.

Does anyone know if Todd has dropped out of the game? But I have noticed that you hardly see a Todd's old pattern traded anymore.

All the better to find what you like and hold on to it, no?

Todd is focusing his efforts on Star Wars and other movie franchises. As we've heard from most suppliers, to make their products cost effective they have to tie up an enormous amount of capital in inventory and Indy is just too small of a niche market.

I think the reason you don't see Todd's jackets out for sale much is because they are such great jackets and the owners know it.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[davidafshar]

I've seen the same thing happen with guitars and amps. I'm into rockabilly, western swing, and old jazz. New models come and go, boutique makers go out of business or discontinue products. Think it has to do with how niche that type of gear is, just like the Indy gear hobby. There's just not a ton of profit to be made and so you get folks doing it because of their passion, which is awesome but doesn't always pay the bills. I will say that despite that, we doe seem spoiled for choice these days. Ten/fifteen years ago, there were virtually no inexpensive acoustic archtops being made. Now I can think of at least three manufacturers off the top of my head. Or to bring it back to Indy gear (which is what this board is about, sorry for the digression), if I'm reading the history correctly, if you wanted an Indy jacket in the 90s you had maybe two choices and neither were spot-on SA. Now...

Just goes to show you, when you find something that works, hang onto it! And maybe buy an extra, just in case.

[kozmoedave]

Wow, David... I was surprised by our similarity in your post in the Todd's thread (see my comment there), our first name appears to be the same, too, not to mention the fact that I work at a music store and play guitar for a living. Not to hijack the thread, but I had to say something.

[Texan Scott]

I think that collectively, this is one thing we have worked to subtly change over the years, consciously or not, getting a copy of a jacket that was truer to film. Collectively, meaning that someone would post a review and give their honest criticism, maybe acquire a couple more, then disappear. With others, it was more purposeful. Of course the supposed loan of the archive jacket helped tremendously. That opened the door for others to either get into the repro market or streamline their offerings.

I used to have lots of jackets, but have paired it down over the years. There is a new BK and a G&B goat in the closet and I am considering selling the G&B, even. I'm on the fence though. That is a tough one to get rid of.

On the music front, sooner or later, people tend to gravitate to the more vintage benchmarks of the 50's, guitars and amps. They build that gear with kwality materials, quality with a "K", and you just can't get past that vintage tone.

[Michaelson]

If you purchased it new, you won't be able to replace it.

Just a thought.

Regards! M

[Texan Scott]

It's amazing the G&B thing. I was sad.

[kozmoedave]

This has been said before, but the whole SA thing is kind of chasing the dragon. The jacket(s) were tailor-made with an unorthodox pattern. We can have the right measurements for collar and side-strap width, the right kind of stitching and whatnot, but in one sense, they'll never be TRULY SA. If they were, they wouldn't fit us, and many find that the closer a jacket is to SA, the less they like it. But I agree with your point, and I think we're all looking for the jackets that we can make our own and give us the right vibe.

[WConly]

One thing to also keep in mind is that, other than in our small group and our opinion, these are ONLY considered 'used clothing' in the resale market.

They really have no true 'collector' value what-so-ever.

Regards! M

And, with 'that (what you said) being said'': I would add that this is especially true in today's market place where there are a lot of younger folk who know (perhaps) about Indy, but have no longing(s) either one way or the other re: him, the movies, or the gear. I guess my point here is that for us who love the whole 'shooting match', if you will.... we are sadly (at this time and place) becoming like 'that pocket watch purchased today, for said amount and yet (perhaps) priceless when discovered at some future date'), along with our gear. It doesn't mean we are out of the game.... just less players, then before. W>

[Michaelson]

Hills and valley's, old friend!

When the next film comes out, we'll be the flavor of the month again.

Regards! M

[Texan Scott]

Yeah, the majority appear to be the casual fan, loves these movies and goes to the theater to see them and that's pretty much it. There is not nearly that solidarity between Indy and the aftermarket merchandise, as there is another film series set in a galaxy far, far away....I thought the little Indy comics were cool, though: https://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-Ad ... nes+comics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nevertheless the jacket and items of the gear as collectables, or must have for others....

[Holt]

Personally, with all the Indy jacket offerings we have today, it really ruined the jacket magic for me. I mean, its not a bad thing that we have so many but ask yourself. Do we have TOO many offerings out there? TOO much Screen accuracy? I think so. I think it ruined the jacket hobby. its like... stick a fork in it, its done. we have it now.

I think less screen accurate jackets are way more enjoyable then the super SA jackets.

I personally have a just a few in my closet but not near as many as I had ten years ago. Those I have in my closet are Mannequin/photo still jackets that I have aged and weathered.

I still have my very old pattern Todds. That one I will never sell. Its a gem.

I am way more into the vintage westeds these days. Anything from the early late 80's and early 90's era. I guess I am trying to search for the feeling of what was before the SA era.

Those vintage jackets have become the collectbale jackets to me today and those I would love to wear.

[Forrest For the Trees]

I hear what you're saying, Holt, in that 99% of the fun is the search. I go through that with book collecting. The internet has vastly changed the world of collecting... anything. Some of the magic is lost.

And yeah, those early Wested's and Todd's first batch of jackets have their charms and character. It was such a quirky part of this hobby, picking apart the details of each new jacket and making them your own.

That being said, I love wearing my BK Relic Hunter. It's the jacket I wanted from the very beginning. And that is a search I'm happy to be done with.

[Tibor]

Well, I get all that and agree with much of it, but I also love the recent nudges towards SA that some of our vendors have taken. I've always been a Raiders jacket guy, but the distressing that Steele and Jones are doing on their LC offering is unbelievably good, and immediately transports you into the movie.

Kelso, S&J are each pulling out new hides and some great stuff. Magnoli's new distressed cowhide is gorgeous and Wested has upped their game significantly too. Part of the issue with Indy jackets is the first hurdle is SA, the second is fit and they're both equally important if you want the right look.

It may seem crazy, but I've popped into the fedora thread and they're just as loopy as jacket guys and gals.

There are MANY worse things to be addicted to...

[kozmoedave]

True that.

[Texan Scott]

...what if Indy just decided to change clothes...?

[kozmoedave]

[Michaelson]

In the past few years, I've found myself more drawn to the 'off the trail' type item than hard core SA stuff.

For instance, if I had the coin right now, the hybrid Wested jacket that Tibor has for sale in the classified at this moment would be in my possession, but I've got too many OTHER projects going on that require my 'fun money' be used ELSEWHERE.....but it's a good example of what I'm referring to.

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=66909" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Indy" enough to be connected to the hobby, but different enough to be useful and satisfy that 'itch'.

I'm also showing that link as there are some REALLY nice jackets for sale at a fantastic price, if anyone is looking for a size 44!

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

...its like the Mask. Put on a leather jacket and suddenly the sky's the limit, empowered to strike out on your own patented adventures...The Skyfall is not a bad jacket either.

[Michaelson]

Actually, let's be realistic here. ANY leather jacket worn with a fedora, regardless of type or style, and you're immediately 'Indy Jones' the masses......that, or in my case, Clyde Beatty the lion tamer, as one nice little old lady once asked me.

Regards! M

[WConly]

Actually, let's be realistic here. ANY leather jacket worn with a fedora, regardless of type or style, and you're immediately 'Indy Jones' the masses......that, or in my case, Clyde Beatty the lion tamer, as one nice little old lady once asked me.

Regards! M

And, let us not forget Crocodile Dundee (as I was once referred too) !!! W>

[davidafshar]

Kozmoedave, perhaps we are Indy Gear Twins, separated at birth...is that a thing? But seriously, I worked in music instrument retail for many years, and have played guitar for many more. It's interesting the overlap between the guitar gearhead hobby and the Indy gear hobby. On the surface they seem like there'd be no shared ground, but really there is quite a bit, even down to "relic-ing" new gear to make it look worn.

As to "any brimmed hat plus leather jacket equals Indy," I think someone on the Fedora Lounge said it best, (I'm paraphrasing): You could wear a leather duster and a sombrero and someone would shout, "Hey, Indiana Jones!"

[Glenville86]

One thing collecting Indy jackets did for me was open my eyes to modern but vintage looking leather jackets. That is how I got into getting a vintage looking Aero jacket and vintage looking flight jackets.

Before the Indy jackets I would normally have a couple cheaper leather jackets and usually wore my Army issued field jackets or fleece jackets. Never really thought much about leather types and just looked at them by weight. Did not care if the back was 1-piece or multiple.

[Texan Scott]

Personally, I am glad that most of the substantial SA gap was closed, so that collectors could receive a very close likeness to what we see on screen. The historical A-2 market is similar, in the sense that buyers are after faithful repros, details which are reproduced based on historical vendor patterns, on their original military contracts.

Of course, as a hobby and interest, guys like to collect and trade these jackets and enjoy the similarities and differences; but now, more than ever before, there is an opportunity to buy one jacket and potentially be satisfied with it. It has reduced the need for guys to buy and rebuy jackets that were not quite there, historically.

[WConly]

Personally, I am glad that most of the substantial SA gap was closed, so that collectors could receive a very close likeness to what we see on screen. The historical A-2 market is similar, in the sense that buyers are after faithful repros, details which are reproduced based on historical vendor patterns, on their original military contracts.

Of course, as a hobby and interest, guys like to collect and trade these jackets and enjoy the similarities and differences; but now, more than ever before, there is an opportunity to buy one jacket and potentially be satisfied with it. It has reduced the need for guys to buy and rebuy jackets that were not quite there, historically.

Very well said, my friend.... very well said ! W>

[Texan Scott]

Hello, WC. Best wishes into the new year!

[Texan Scott]

As to Jeff's post, I can see that due to the current SW films being made, a supplier like Todd, might time his offerings and repros to the new releases, you sort of ride the crest of the wave, in a marketing sense. I would suspect that if he placed a large jacket order, or other such articles of the gear, and held back until just before the release of a new IJ movie, it could be very profitable for him, or any supplier? Where do you do to buy IJ stuff? There are just a handful.

Growing up, I remember the days when you could look forward to a blockbuster each summer, whether it was SW or IJ. It looks like something similar has returned?

[Kubrik]

Maybe there will be a new surge of interest in the jacket after Indiana Jones 5 comes out. A new jacket to analyze? Who knows. KOTCS brought attention to the hobby, did to me.

[Michaelson]

With the announcement from USW's that the 'roo jacket is discontinued and has been placed on THEIR 'collectable' list, it appears my 'roo jacket has been declared in this category anyway!

Regards! Michaelson

[Castor Dioscuri]

While I agree that if you have a jacket you should be able to wear it, I still consider the two holy grails in my collection an AB with screen accurate liner and a Tony Nowak, both made in Ford's size.

I'll never be able to wear either (the hat's too small and the jacket's too big), but I still have copies in my size that serve that purpose! Short of a screen-used piece, this is as good as it gets to me!

[Michaelson]

I have a Crystal Skull AB made by Steve on his CS blocks, but with Marc's Portuguese beaver felt, sweat, and liner, along with a note from Steve for provenance.

Fits be perfectly (as it should), but has never been worn either.

I see it as more of an artifact in my collection rather than one for the rotation.....as you do your hat and jacket.

Regards! M

[Castor Dioscuri]

Dang Michaelson, if ever there was a perfect recipe of a hat that embodied the spirit of the Indy fan community, it certainly was used in making that fedora.

[Michaelson]

Agreed, and THAT'S why it has never been worn.

Regard! M

[yellowduke]

I have a Crystal Skull AB made by Steve on his CS blocks, but with Marc's Portuguese beaver felt, sweat, and liner, along with a note from Steve for provenance.

Fits be perfectly (as it should), but has never been worn either.

I see it as more of an artifact in my collection rather than one for the rotation.....as you do your hat and jacket.

Regards! M

I have a Steve Delk AB CS beaver too. Like you I don't wear it as it is just too lovely to knock about in. When I posted about it on here when I got it I had two offers for it almost immediately. Still not for sale!

[Tibor]

Hey, Hat guys, get out of the jacket threads!

(but I know what you mean- I have a few earlier HJs that I don't wear)

[Michaelson]

Hey, no moderating the moderators......

Of course you're right.....

Regard! M

[sharkboy]

I'm going to take all my jackets, bury them in the sand for 1000 years, and they will become priceless.

[Michaelson]

Just have plenty of Pecards on hand when you dig them back up.



Regards! Michaelson