The G&B Expedition gone?

Misfit13 · Post by **Misfit13** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:05 am

So just browsing through G&B website, I noticed the Expedition is no longer on the sight as are a number of other jackets they used to make. Anybody know what's going on with that? If they are not making them any more, I'm glad I got mine when I did.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:09 am

Looks like it's gone. G&B have been getting rid of styles for some time now. Anything that doesn't sell sufficiently. I guess that's fair, they are a business. End of an era though if it's gone.

Note also the Raider has gone and the prices have vanished too. All jackets are now custom and made to your order. Business must have been poorly.

Post by **Cajunkraut** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:42 am

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:03 am

I have sent an inquiry. If/when I get a response, I will share it here.

Regard! Michaelson

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:08 am

Well - I have an Expedition in goat and one in lamb that will likely outlive me.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:12 am

I have a couple myself, with probably the same results

.....I also asked how the zipper/hardware warranties will be honored by G&B on the Expedition if they HAVE made it a discontinued model?

I find it extremely ironic that within a few months of Lee Keppler's death (one of the creators and instigators of its creation WITH 'then' FlightSuits jacket co. (to become G&B)), the company discontinues the jacket model.

Regard! M

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:45 am

CM wrote:All jackets are now custom and made to your order.

Looks like they are changing their business model to strictly "made to order". Interesting move. I suppose they don't have to tie up capital in carrying inventory that takes up warehouse space, but typically made to order will cost more than OTR jackets so they're catering to a smaller, niche clientele.

Perhaps for the models they are continuing to sell they mostly got custom orders anyway so they won't lose too much OTR business.

Still, sad if the Expo will no longer be available. They are great looking, hard wearing jackets.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Post by **Cajunkraut** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:26 am

Michaelson wrote:I find it extremely ironic that within a few months of Lee Keppler's death (one of the creators and instigators of its creation WITH 'then' FlightSuits jacket co. (to become G&B)), the company discontinues the jacket model.

Regard! M

You read my mind, M. Proud to own one for that reason alone.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:38 am

That's too bad if they did in fact cancel that option for a jacket because they make one heckuva Indy jacket.

Post by **Cajunkraut** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:54 am

Tennessee Smith wrote:That's too bad if they did in fact cancel that option for a jacket because they make one heckuva Indy jacket.

Until M gets a response, my guess (hope!) is that G&B will dig up the pattern for the appropriate custom jacket price.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:18 am

I wonder if they will have any expeditions on clearance at their store? Might have to mosey on down there for a look this week.

Bogie1943 · Post by **Bogie1943** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:36 am

I noticed this the other day when I went to check the clearance section as I do from time to time. It's sad to see them possibly walking away from the leather market. Even though I eventually grew tired of my Expeditions and sold them due to the fact that I just found the skins to be a little too plain for the Raiders jacket. Having said that they made one heck of a quality jacket. You couldn't beat that construction. I still own three jackets by them. My historical A-2 good ole Dave Marshall helped me pick out himself, a G-1, and a M422A. Doubt I will be parting with those in my lifetime. Perhaps to my kids some day.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:51 pm

Makes you glad to have one, if you were able to snag one in the window. I've always believed that whenever these went on the resale market, it represented about the best deal in an Indy jacket that you could find.

Flight Suits/G&B made about the best quality Indy you could buy.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:00 pm

Where you been hiding, Tex?

Still waiting for a response from G&B. Stay tuned.

Regard! M

Misfit13 · Post by **Misfit13** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:07 pm

Yeah I sent an email to them as well shortly after I posted this thread. Like M said, I hope they honor the warranty on repairs if needed. I will post their response when I get it.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:14 pm

Well, here's the reply:

Hey M,

Unfortunately it looks like we will be ceasing manufacturing of this style. We only sell on average two of these jackets a month. With those numbers and the minimums for some of the hardware and leathers it is not viable to continue producing. We will still be doing our core jackets such as the A-2, G-1 and F-82 but this jacket is being discontinued.

We will still offer our same warranty on existing jackets we will just not be selling anymore.

If you have any questions or want to talk about it further feel free to contact me anytime.

Thanks,

Drew Williams
SALES MANAGER
619.440.2700x252 direct
drew@gibson-barnes.com

Regard! M

Post by **Cajunkraut** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:32 pm

The end of an era at Gibson & Barnes. C'est la vie.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:09 am

Give it some time and these will be popping up on EBay for inflated prices for a used jacket.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:19 am

Wow. This is surprising. I wonder if there is another Indy movie if they will make it again. I have one (thanks to Michaelson's suggestions) and it really is a great jacket.
As it was said, an end of an era.
best
Canada

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:27 am

My guess is if another Indy movie gets made, demand will go back up and it will become an offering again. They have the patterns and carry an inventory of leather. It's just keeping the specialized hardware that wasn't cost effective.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:17 am

They'll still have to hold onto the hardware to take care of warranty work.

Regards! M

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:23 am

Well that really stinks. Thankfully there are still a lot of vendors out there making them now.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:37 am

Agreed, and it's interesting that G&B is getting out with only the one model, and yet companies like Wested and USW's keep introducing model after model month after month and they're selling like hotcakes in the same price range.

What did G&B do wrong?

Regards! M

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:38 am

Michaelson wrote:They'll still have to hold onto the hardware to take care of warranty work.

Regards! M

Well that's a good point.

I wonder if they are just going to go through old stock. Did they use different zippers on the Expo? I would think the zipper is the thing to fail.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:40 am

The zip was the European style to match the original, so yep, that will probably be ordered 'as needed' for stock. I still have a lambskin prototype in hand, and it has the original zip on it with no problems, but even that zipper isn't available anymore as it was nickel plated.

Everything else, though, is standard stuff.

Regards! M

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:42 am

Or they'll replace with standard zippers.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:55 am

Could be, depending on availability of the other zip.

At least it's nice to know these didn't become orphans like the TN's did when Tony passed away.

They're still recognized by G&B and they're still fully warrantied. They did not become 'artifacts' in our closets.

Regards! M

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:30 pm

too bad about the G&B. It never seemed to get the credit nor the promotion it deserved. It was really one of the better offerings out there in terms of quality.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:11 pm

So I went down to G&B today. Their front office has a couple dozen jackets, all of which are very nice. They actually had a couple Expeditions on the rack, but only a few. Of course I tried one on, and it was definitely the toughest goatskin I've ever felt! I unfortunately didn't have the money to take it with me when I left; $500 is a lot to spend on a non-custom jacket, as nice as it is.

I had a short conversation with the girl at the desk, and she told me that G&B has a backlog that stretches all the way through summer, and that since they are behind on so many orders, they are suspending the production of most OTR jackets. No specific mention regarding the Expedition model.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:17 am

I had a standard jacket on order and was told it might takes months to get it. I already have the G&B Expedition in goat and asked if they had a lamb Expedition in 48T in stock. That is how I ended up with the Expedition in lamb......Kind of cool since at that time, I had no idea they were going to stop making them.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:10 pm

Not to get any hopes up, but with the official announcement of Indy V, I pinged G&B with a link to the news, suggesting they MIGHT be a little premature in eliminating the Expo from their product line.

Here's their reply:

Hey M,

Thanks for sharing. I want to show this to the owner of the company and see if I can change any minds around here. It is a beautiful jacket and I would love to keep it part of our product line.

Thanks,

Drew Williams
SALES MANAGER
619.440.2700x252 direct
drew@gibson-barnes.com

Like I said, don't read any more into it than what you read there, but at least the door isn't completely shut on the subject.

I'll let you know if there's any updates in the future.

Regard! Michaelson

Tyrloch · Post by **Tyrloch** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:05 pm

Great news! At least potentially so...thanks!

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:16 am

I have to say this one is hitting me particularly hard. After stumbling on here a few years ago, poking around and researching for a while, and getting some MAJOR assistance from M and others, I settled on the Goat Expedition as my first dip in the pool. A pair of Aldens and a couple of MKVII's later, the jacket is still the flagship of my collection. I look forward to fall and spring to wear it. As I said then, and will say again now, I was looking for a durable tank of a jacket that looks sharp, clean edges, and only gets better with time. Check and mate, G&B. Thanks for the memories, and I guess know I can celebrate owning a piece of history? Either way, still love the thing.

davyjones007 · Post by **davyjones007** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:07 pm

Makes me a bit sad that I never pulled the trigger on one of these great jackets. At least they still sell all their other great mil spec jackets.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:05 am

Over a year ago, I asked for an Expedition in horsehide. Sales Manager said they were backlogged on all jackets and to check back in a few months. I recently e-mailed him again and he said they would not make an Expedition anymore - period.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:03 am

In the interim between when I heard from the, and this last statement received above, one has to wonder if Disney has whispered in their ear to stop all production now?

Just surmising here, but the finality of that statement seems pretty harsh considering the potential sales just over the horizon with the new film.

Regards! M

Post by **Cajunkraut** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:57 am

I wonder if this has affected the value of secondary market Expos. I haven't seen one on eBay or in the Bazaar since February's announcement.

No, mine will never be for sale.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:13 pm

Could be!

Regards! M

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:58 pm

I was wearing mine this morning thinking of how great a jacket it is. The purchase was, as with much of my gear, a result of great advice from Michaelson and the many great reviews here at COW and the connection with another COW member who had one for sale. Actually in the end I bought 2 of them from him (although currently I only have one). I have it in goat and it is tough as nails. Sorry to hear they are no longer making them.
regards
Canada

Charybdis · Post by **Charybdis** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:10 pm

Yeah, this was also one of the jackets I was very interested in at one point. The price point makes all the difference for me, but if that were not an issue, sheesh, I would have one of every kind!! (BK, G&B, Wested, S&J, etc. etc.)

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:29 pm

Charybdis wrote:Yeah, this was also one of the jackets I was very interested in at one point. The price point makes all the difference for me, but if that were not an issue, sheesh, I would have one of every kind!! (BK, G&B, Wested, S&J, etc. etc.)

Then you would have the sickness many of us have. Not only different makers but different leathers as well.

davyjones007 · Post by **davyjones007** » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:16 pm

I know several folks on here had a few special order jackets made by G&B. So are all the jacket going to be made to order? The ones still listed on the site show sizes. Maybe for off the rack orders?

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:11 pm

They're no longer being made at all, custom or otherwise, I'm not sure we understand your question.

I just double checked their website and the Expedition is no longer listed, unless one shows up in the clearance section.

The custom jackets were the way they were pretty much all made over the years, then a few OTR's were placed in stock.

The ones that appeared in clearance were the custom jobs that had been returned for one reason or the other.

Right now all they offer are flight jacket patterns. The Expedition pattern has been retired.

No further word from G&B on if it will ever come back.

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:20 am

I have dealt with their current Sales Mgr. before, several years ago, when I had a HH Expedition made. It was a really nice jacket but stiff.

I am just wondering how many Exp's they made each year? If they made only 100, then you are looking at least, $50,000 in sales. 200 and it's doubled. A sale is a sale, and it seems as though, that if their technicians have made these for years, why would you stop making them, even if these are just made at a minimum?

davidafshar · Post by **davidafshar** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:47 am

It does seem odd not to continue offering a product on a made-to-order basis. Now, keeping a bunch of sizes in stock, sure. Makes sense to discontinue a production item.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:06 pm

If I am reading between the lines correctly, one of the major issues with this, was that people would order custom, and usually that just meant an inch or so longer or shorter on the sleeves and the same for the torso. That covers most of the "custom" work, as G&B is concerned. Not necessarily a 'true' custom, but close enough for govt. work. Well, customers would return them for various reasons and then they would go to the clearance section for about $350 retail, so they lost money. I would think that re-offering these jackets on only an OTR basis, would be the way to go for them.

I am hoping Drew reads this, but the issue historically with G&B OTR's was that their sizing scheme, the jacket was cut fuller in the sleeves and torso that more "traditional" OTR size schemes,, ie Large = 42-44, etc. Roughly 24" pits measurement. I've had a few of these, and the last one, a 44 was around 28"-29" pits. This approaches an XXL, all things considered.

If they could re-launch their Expedition line, strictly OTR, and retool the 'cut' of the jacket, even make the OTR on a "made to order" basis, it would be a win-win, for them and the customer!

A guy could always order a Long and avoid the shades of gray with a custom order and much higher price tag.

The Raiders jacket, which this one replicates was a slimmer fitting jacket than say the LC, in various scenes.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:58 pm

The reply. Keep your fingers crossed......

First, I want to thank you for having such a passion in one of our products. Since discontinuing the Expedition jacket I have received several emails from customers expressing their disappointment and some even with regrets for not ordering one when it was available. I was somewhat surprised that discontinuing this jacket would cause such waves and discussion. We also discontinued 5 other jacket styles at the same time as this jacket and to be honest I haven’t gotten even half as many emails on all of the others we stopped making combined.

Because of this I want to speak to our company President to see if we can bring this jacket back, at least maybe for short runs during our slow times. The sizing factor you have mentioned I will also discuss and I think that is a great idea. If we simplify the sizing so to speak it would definitely cut down on returns. We have the standard A-2 pattern we could copy or use as a base....(in terms of fit). I think this approach would be the most efficient.

You may be surprised but we only sold 28 jackets of this style in limited time in 2016 and 34 total in the entire year of 2015. I think part of the reason is that leather in general is on the downswing currently. It doesn’t seem to be as fashionable as it was 5 years ago. All of our leather jacket styles have seen lower numbers in the past 5 years. It is a downward trend right now but these things move in waves and I can see it becoming popular again just as it was from 2005-2010 when we were our busiest. Also the fact that we stopped making it will probably spur some orders if they knew we were bringing it back for a short run.

I will keep you posted on what I am able to do. I also encourage you to keep reminding other on the forums and have them send their opinions via email as well. The more people asking the more traction I will be able to get on my end. Also feel free to drop me a line whenever it pops in to you thoughts and I can let you know where I am at in the discussions.

Thanks again for your email and I will see what I can do on my end to bring this great jacket back.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:29 pm

This is the exact same reply Drew gave me a year ago (last reply, March 15, 2016), so hopefully seeing others chime in will REALLY make him take this up with the company president of G&B, like he promised he would do LAST year.

Regards! Michaelson

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:36 pm

Michaelson wrote:This is the exact same reply Drew gave me a year ago (last reply, March 15, 2016), so hopefully seeing others chime in will REALLY make him take this up with the company president of G&B, like he promised he would do LAST year.

Well that's kind of depressing! I just wore my goat G&B yesterday while out in inclement weather at the zoo, and it performed like a champ. I would totally love to own another, but would not buy one unless they fixed the sizing. (My 44R is a 46 in the chest, but has very short arms.) I appreciate the members here continuing to reach out to them.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:01 pm

If you want an Expedition, or want to see G&B bring it back, write to:

sales@gibson-barnes.com

use 'Expedition' in the comments line