why do they never fit me?

[eaglecrow]

I am wearing Indy jackets (mainly westeds) since the late 90's. unfortunately I am always ending up with jackets which do not quit fit me the way I want it.

In generell, I am 174cm, normal built and I had Raiders and last crusade jackets. Usually, 38R looks good on me, 40R is really too big. The problem with the 38 jackets always is the arm movement which is very bad. While wearing a 38 LC, when I lift my arms the shoulders are lifting with me right to my ears. Lifting one hand only and the jacket is not much better. with a 40 this problem is gone but it looks like a potato sack on me.

Last year, I went to wested and tried on all the jackets in 38 or 40 they had, and I realized there is not a single piece that fit me. I even tried to have a tailor made one, one from wested, from from a passionated member in here. Despite very exact measurements and lots of conversations, both ended up to be even worse. Maybe the boxcut is after all not fitting to everybody?

I never tried ToD jackets. Did anybody of you ever had similar problems with the Raiders or Last Crusade jacket and switched to ToD jackets or even Indy-like jackets instead? And if so, what is your experience?

[Castor Dioscuri]

I'm in the same boat as you. Been collecting not as long (since 2006), but pretty much gave up after Tony's passing.

Considering the effort you've put in, I can only presume that the Indy jacket is best suited for those with a fuller chest, and not those with a size of 38 and below. Not to say it isn't possible, there are some folks with great jackets, but rather that it is the exception rather than the norm, especially if you're adter a screen accurate look. And yes, I know, I know, Ford in Raiders wore a 38, but the majority of jackets we see today are meant for a wider range of body types, and let's not forget that the Raiders was also admittedly an ill fitting jacket.

My assumption being that due to the action pleats, you presumably might need more space in your midsection for them to fill out and not collapse. Pair that with the armhole placement throwing things off, and yeah, I've been burned too many times.

Another theory I developed is that the popular vendors have trouble scaling these jackets down to look screen accurate while still being proportionate, and that's where the problem lies. I frequent a lot of tailors for my dress clothes, and am currently spoiled by two leather guys that really know their stuff. Basically, they take a ton of measurements, watch how you move, how your body behaves, and make a garment to fit and compliment you.

The problem that I have had with Indy vendors over the years are that the measurements they ask for are just not enough. Wested just wants chest and arm length mainly, understandable as they are a mail order service, but this won't do the final product justice due to them having to fill in the blanks. Even when I visited Nowak to get measured, he mainly handed me a tape and asked me what I wanted.

I'm not blaming the vendors, rather I can emphatize since they probably didn't want to do all the work and have someone complain that it wasn't accurate or what have you. That, and I think these are guys mainly in the mass production business, not so much individual clientele. And even with movie productions, they work with the studio tailors for measurements.

If you really want a jacket that fits, I guess the irony is that you would need someone with an eye not just for detail, but with a major fashion eye, for lack of a better word. As much as I loved Tony's work, he wasn't able to make a jacket that fit me despite about five tries. Granted the last one was really close, but I'm still bitter that Riley never returned it when I sent it for repairs about four years ago... But I digress.

Now in the last few years, I've been toying with the idea of getting the two leather guys I know to make an Indy jacket for me, but they are already pricey (2k upwards a jacket), which scares me to think what the cost of a pattern would be.

[whipwarrior]

Gawd! $2000 for a jacket?!?! Those guys are REALLY proud of their work!!! That reminds me of a lambskin jacket I saw in a designer fashion store in SF. I literally did a double-take at the $3500 price tag for a paper-thin taxi leather that would tear if you looked at it too hard. Obscene price for a garment, regardless of which Italian designer crafted it. I don't need a jacket that bad!

[eporium]

I too also wear size 38 jackets and have the same problem with Wested indy jackets. Having had a Raiders, Last Crusade, Hero and a Temple of Doom
jacket the fits were either not quite right or baggy.

[Castor Dioscuri]

Gawd! $2000 for a jacket?!?! Those guys are REALLY proud of their work!!! That reminds me of a lambskin jacket I saw in a designer fashion store in SF. I literally did a double-take at the $3500 price tag for a paper-thin taxi leather that would tear if you looked at it too hard. Obscene price for a garment, regardless of which Italian designer crafted it. I don't need a jacket that bad!

I feel justified considering they make jackets exactly like what you'd expect from a true tailor, with a muslin base being made and then multiple fittings afterward. It's a lot of work on their part like any tailor, and likewise the price is in line with a reputable tailor's work. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about an off the rack department store jacket where you're simply paying for the label- in which case I'd agree with ya, whip!

[Charybdis]

I have a solution: just don't lift up your arms!!!

[backstagejack]

I've heard about tons of issues with Wested, off the rack, custom and even with custom it's hit or miss.... and US wings doesn't do custom work. Has anyone tried Magnoli? I'm pretty sure he does amazing custom work and everything I've had him tailor for me has been spot on. I wear what ranges from 38-40 depending, 175 pounds with longer arms than someone normally my size.

[Glenville86]

For the Wested jackets, I order one size up. I am one of those guys with a big chest and big arms. The 48 fits but is too form fitting for me. I actually like the looser fitting size 50. Most members would say my jackets appear too large but it is a personal preference. They are not baggy but a loose fit. The only exception is my size 50 Hero jacket in goat I washed in a cold cycle. That one is about as form fitting as I would wear.

[Indy Magnoli]

Sounds like you guys need someone who specializes in made-to-measure leather jackets...

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com

[ChrisMD]

Sounds like you guys need someone who specializes in made-to-measure leather jackets...

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com

What he said!!! OP I have a Magnoli jacket that I will vouch for as being of exceptional quality. I got it secondhand and love it. I can only imagine a custom one to my specs.

[Michaelson]

I have an size 44 OTR Magnoli Indy jacket in cowhide, and IT fits me like it was bespoke, so I can't even imagine what a spec'd Magnoli jacket would feel like.

Regard! Michaelson

[backstagejack]

I have an size 44 OTR Magnoli Indy jacket in cowhide, and IT fits me like it was bespoke, so I can't even imagine what a spec'd Magnoli jacket would feel like.

Regard! Michaelson

Yeah, I'm not sure why a $2k priced custom jacket is an option when Magnoli's custom leather strips are not even half that price and still amazing.

[Texan Scott]

Best thing to do is provide exact measurements around the chest, waist, sleeves, top shoulder seam and yoke. If you had problems with that Last Crusade, it could be that the arm holes are wide and you need something more slim fitting with slim arm holes, then the jacket will not ride up as much, especially if you are slender. Find a good fitting oxford and base your measurements from it. Another thing you might think about is not opting for the 4-5 inch extra which is usually added to the torso. Maybe 2-3" of extra might be better for you?

[whipwarrior]

Sounds like you guys need someone who specializes in made-to-measure leather jackets...

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com

Very subtle. I love gratuitous self-promotion!

[Michaelson]

Hey, if you don't blow your own horn.....

Regard! M

[whipwarrior]

How true, sir!

[Chewbacca Jones]

Hey, if you don't blow your own horn.....

Regard! M

...then I'll volunteer. I never had the "problem" of being a size 38, but was a tricky guy to fit. Even Magnoli was befuddled by some of my measurements. But he got it right on my jacket. Best fitting leather jacket I ever owned. So, clearly it's helpful to find the right skill set for the job at hand.

[ChrisMD]

Hey, if you don't blow your own horn.....

Regard! M

...then I'll volunteer. I never had the "problem" of being a size 38, but was a tricky guy to fit. Even Magnoli was befuddled by some of my measurements. But he got it right on my jacket. Best fitting leather jacket I ever owned. So, clearly it's helpful to find the right skill set for the job at hand.

That's ironic, I like your jacket too Chewie.

[Indy Magnoli]

Very subtle. I love gratuitous self-promotion!

I would have been more subtle, but that's the smallest font we've got!

[Chewbacca Jones]

That's ironic, I like your jacket too Chewie.

And she never even writes!

[Castor Dioscuri]

I have an size 44 OTR Magnoli Indy jacket in cowhide, and IT fits me like it was bespoke, so I can't even imagine what a spec'd Magnoli jacket would feel like.

Regard! Michaelson

Yeah, I'm not sure why a $2k priced custom jacket is an option when Magnoli's custom leather strips are not even half that price and still amazing.

I'm a little confused about this comment, since this was directed at what I wrote. I never implied that there are vendors out there offering a 2K Indy jacket, but rather that I prefer bespoke leather jackets that tend to be in that price range, having moved away from Indy jackets since most (if not all) vendors with any screen-pedigree offer jackets as made to measure.

To begin with, I think there might be a bit of confusion about what made-to-measure is and what bespoke is (which is what I prefer). Made to measure clothing is basically a tailor that starts with a pattern. If you have a bigger chest or smaller arms, the pattern will be modified to fit you. This basically describes most "custom" Indy jacket offerings. On the flip side, proper bespoke clothing sees the tailor create a new pattern based on your measurements, so in essence start from scratch. Basically, what you think of when you think Savile Row. This is practically impossible to do over email correspondence, and even if you have a local tailor measure you up for the real tailor that does the work, you still are making it difficult for the tailor to make tweaks and adjustments at later fittings, to speak nothing of the techniques that two different tailors have when it comes to observing stance, quirks, etc.

Insofar as Indy is concerned, as noted earlier, I noticed a recurring trend where smaller sized guys tend to have problems with their jackets. Even Ford's jacket was an odd fit, as I mentioned earlier. I'm assuming that this is due to the general construction and design of the iconic jacket, however it still ended up looking good on Ford because the studio would presumably have quite a few folks whose job it was to make sure he had a bespoke fit, something that the current offerings do not include.

To use a very similar analogy, think about suits. I tend to think of leather jackets in the same way I think of suits, since I love both in equal measure. There is a difference between the fit of a $200 department store suit, and a $800 made-to-measure mail-order suit and a $8k+ bespoke, Savile Row suit. If you ask anybody that has had the good fortune of purchasing a bespoke suit, off-the-rack suits and even made-to-measure suits won't ever quite measure up again, pardon the pun.

In the end though, it really comes down to what you like, and what you're willing to pay. Some people have amazing experiences with off the rack, and some are very happy with made to measure. If you feel it is worth that extra expense to get a perfect fit and don't mind spending the extra coin, then by all means go bespoke. But ultimately, all are valid options. There is just no arguing, however, that a well made (key word here) bespoke suit will always look significantly better than even the best made to measure suit. It's the reason why movie stars and high flyers with tailors are able to look better in their suits than the general public.

*note: keep in mind that there are badly made bespoke suits, just as there are bad tailors. Just because something is bespoke does not always mean it is automatically good.

[CM]

Many of the better leather jacket companies like Aero (tough authentic 1930's patterns in thick horse hide) sell jackets for $1200 US. Nothing strange there.

But if you look at the Raiders jacket and even the CS jacket it doesn't really fit Harrison Ford especially well either. It's baggy, sits off the shoulders and would be considered a size too large by many folk.

In the end it is how a jacket feels that generally determines whether I keep it. Even if it looks good, if I'm not feeling it, it goes.

[eaglecrow]

Ah, lots of good comments, highly appreciated

Seems after all there are some others who like their 38 cuts, others don't. With the personal preference, I guess going one size up is a good idea for these jackets if you end up liking the baggy style. Unfortunately I don't.

The best jacket I had so far was a Raiders 40R in Rola Cut. Unfortunately I neither have the measurements of that jacket nor do I have proper pictures of it. Although I said "never wested again" a couple of times I am still not entirely giving up the idea of having another go for their custom made ones (despite the other problem that I am not easily satisfied with their hides).
@ Texan Scott: your input is really good and you are 100% right with the armholes actually. What do you mean by a "good fitting Oxford"? it does not a ring a bell here I am afraid.

In the end, having a proper made to measure jacket is something I also consider. Magnolis jackets seem very nice, but as money is quit topic, at this moment I had the chance to so some work trade with a fellow archaeologist who happens to be a trained tailor. I was speaking with him about this whole topic while I was wearing my 90's wested (unfortunately ruined by another "tailor" while putting a new inlay into it). He is going to help me with finding a proper cut for me. Of course I still need to find the right leather source if I go through with it, too.

So in the end this is what I conclude:

There are no standard jackets for me on the market I like, forcing me to
A: either giving wested a last try with a very specific custom order
B: tailor made-to-measure jacket and the fate for the right leather

[Baldwyn]

I get what you're saying. I was never really happy with Wested's fit, or G&B. I had custom TN jackets that I wasn't completely happy with, and then a second hand that was perfect. Eventually, I pulled the trigger on a Relichunter, tried to make all sorts of adjustments, and then Bill Kelso actually sent me out a test jacket, that fit great (40R, btw). I got a 40R off the rack, Bill Kelso jacket and just adore it. Sometimes, trying to mess with the pattern seems to cause more damage. But then again, maybe you haven't tried a good pattern yet...

[Texan Scott]

...a good, button up (semi-casual or dress) shirt that fits well.

Maybe we can help with the next order?

[backstagejack]

Yeah, I'm not sure why a $2k priced custom jacket is an option when Magnoli's custom leather strips are not even half that price and still amazing.

I'm a little confused about this comment, since this was directed at what I wrote. I never implied that there are vendors out there offering a 2K Indy jacket, but rather that I prefer bespoke leather jackets that tend to be in that price range, having moved away from Indy jackets since most (if not all) vendors with any screen-pedigree offer jackets as made to measure.

It was this part here that caused me to think as such.

Now in the last few years, I've been toying with the idea of getting the two leather guys I know to make an Indy jacket for me, but they are already pricey (2k upwards a jacket), which scares me to think what the cost of a pattern would be.

Thanks for the clarification though.