The project that almost was.....

[Texan Scott]

I want to tell you all about an experience I had recently.

Over the course of paring down the order process, you eventually bump into a ceiling of what is practical, or what the leather shop will do vs. what is more of a 'wish list'. I suppose, I am more of an idealist, in that sense. Anyway, I had approached Wested in order to help them standardize their Last Crusade jacket, similar to the Hero. I later realized, that like Elsa, a few had already been down that road. It was told to me that the previous had been too "greedy" and led to some ill feelings, or possibly some fallout. I was hoping to turn the tide, and get a better offering to fans, even to suggesting the type of leathers, a choice of thinner cow or thicker lamb.

ToD was the first to be standardized. Another member here, had previously helped Peter to standardize the Raiders Hero jacket, whom I know. The Last Crusade remained, and in many ways, it is possibly the post difficult to get right, because you have size and placement of the specs., thickness and texture of the skin and the distressing. All three of these need to be present to reproduce the desired effect, accurately.

A bit of a twist of fate, but I have usually specialized on the RoLA and sort of minored on the LC, so it was a bit ironic that I would be working on such a jacket, since others had been down this path before. Rebecca and I began to work on the jacket, and must have exchanged maybe a dozen emails or so. She expressed her desire to finally reign in the Last Crusade jacket, because it was the final hold out in the trilogy, in terms of bringing to market an accurate repro to fans. The chance to work on such a jacket was appealing, considering this was the original maker. It was to be the LC Hero, and I was 'offered' a discount on the first standardized repro for 145 GBP plus shipping. At this stage of the game, we had pared it down to a tee. Wested would have offered the best repro of the LC Hero to date. In the midst of it, I had hoped to help standardize the LC Hero and the RoLA jacket, which would have been a no brainer, from my perspective. Certainly, it would have been easier to do than the LC. The RoLA is the older style, more OTR fitting jacket, but would have had more accurate specs built in, for those who prefer a better fitting jacket without the quirks.

I could tell after a short period of time that she was really engaged in the process because she began to sketch diagrams, especially where it concerned the pockets and yoke. After a few revisions and tweaks, it was close to being a 'go'. Finally, I approached her with a counterproposal, asking for a 'free' jacket, and detailing what all had gone into this process just to get us here. Ideally, if you are interested in such, you literally spend hours and hours in front of the computer, looking at stills and reading old threads, in an effort to get a better perspective on some of the most iconic jackets in film history. I could not count the number of people who have received their jackets in the past, only to complain about how their jackets did not look like the film jacket. These repros have not really been reproduced faithfully and accurately in more than 26 years, by the original maker, and the chance to work on a standardization for fans was a welcomed challenge.

I thought at the very least, a free jacket to the collaborator (one jacket for each contributor for each of the movies) or whatever you wish, was fair...? Or am I totally off base here? I didn't feel as though a free jacket to each contributor was entirely that far out of line, all things considered. This was before Christmas, and we have not communicated since. I assume the project was killed.

This was the project that almost was.

I tried.

[whipwarrior]

I presently have a Raiders Hero on the way from England, and I'd meant to inquire about the possibility of a LC Hero in the future. Guess that question is now answered. And I will certainly treasure my Zoltar custom-spec LC Wested (trimmed with black lining and the 'Leather Concessionaires' label). So, for the record, folks, THIS is what the Wested LC Hero might have looked like:

[backstagejack]

I've always heard from the powers that be, members wiser and WAY more connected than I ever will be that a LC Hero or even a TOD Hero will never happen. and that we're lucky to even have the Raiders Hero. To be fair, I'm not surprised. For YEARS we had the pre-2000 clown collar offer as a "raiders" Jacket. To be surprised, I don't know why the "Raider's" offer is still there with the "Hero" offer now available.

The Indiana Jones Jacket only has so much traction to begin with. The Hero was born out of years of research by people on this forum, influence by TN, etc and the huge success of CS. That was in 2008.

There aren't that many people aside from us hardcore fans clamoring for a Raiders accurate jacket or a TOD accurate jacket or the coveted and oddly loved LC accurate jacket. No one cares that much.

Wested doesn't have the time, people or give a #### to develop all new patterns for something that is good enough for 95% of the populace.

[Cajunkraut]

It was told to me that the previous had been too "greedy" and led to some ill feelings, or possibly some fallout.

Maybe your request was perceived as more of this?

[CM]

I can see how asking for a free one would have been a barrier.

[car96]

Although I understand Texan Scott's viewpoint on a free jacket, that is where the line should have been drawn and not asked for; now, why this made Wested mad seems to be more deeply rooted and I don't understand the above philosophy approach from Wested.

It almost reads as though they don't really care about what customers want. I have attempted to have 2 LC jackets made by them, purchased both and neither have been up to my wants, heck one was not even measured to specifications that I asked and paid extra for.

Now, does Wested make great products? Yes.

Just because you get a average steak from your local steakhouse every once in a blue moon doesn't make it a bad steakhouse.

[Texan Scott]

The current and past jacket has always been an amalgamation of Raiders and LC specs at best. Would this not have been a help to Wested?

I also thought a free jacket to show in the forum and to launch the project would only help with their promotion of it. Regardless of who it was made for, a proto would have had to be made, if nothing else to display on a mannequin. You can lead a horse to water.....

Sorry, but I don't work for free, and neither does anyone else here. I don't really think a free jacket and promotion in the forum in exchange for this consultation was all that unfair. Did anyone at Wested bring the goods..? 27+ years now. You would have thought you were asking for Wested to hand over keys to the co.

[Texan Scott]

I look at this from more of a business perspective. As other jacket producers get into the game, there is more competition, and people have a choice of how and to whom they will spend their money. If the original maker does not make a faithful repro, and fans have to spec it themselves, and usually half of the specs are complied with, then people will go to the seller who will produce faithful copies with the least amount of resistance. It has been discouraging in the past to pay some $350 or so, only to receive something that was a bit less than the ideal. In short, Wested would stand to profit substantially from future sales, and this would be on going, thousands of dollars each year, undoubtedly. Had a person asked for 10-15% royalties per jacket, that may very well have been over the top. In my view, a complimentary jacket that would be used to promote the line is not so ridiculous.

What is your time worth and how much time did it take you actually get skilled at something? Nothing in life is free.

[St. Dumas]

Wested's e-mail this week said the LC Hero is scheduled for late March.

[whipwarrior]

Seriously?

[Holt]

Is it in march now? Well I hope it wil turn out great.

[whipwarrior]

Take my money NOW!!!

[Holt]

I really am curious to see how this is going to turn out as the current pattern is based on one of the original jackets.

It probbaly is going to be a pocket/ collar thing and not a pattern change.

[whipwarrior]

Who cares? Wested, TAKE MY MONEY NOW!!!

[Adventure Dog]

I'm not much of a poster (lurker I am I suppose). Texan, you've always been quite honest with me, so I'll add my two cents in.

I agree that no one works for free, and that hard work deserves a compensation. Thank you for tying to push our love and desire for accurate gear to the next level, and for taking the time to reach out to Wested and share you knowledge and expertise with them. I'm sure after hours of labor on your part it makes sense to expect a measured compensation, and a jacket to review seems like a fair balance.

At the same time, I understand how Wested might have seen your contribution as a labor of love, and their response of a discounted jacket was their measured goodwill response to a fan. As no previously agreed on compensation was discussed before you helped them (I assume), their gesture might seem lacking in respect to your labor into the project.

I guess it depends on what you feel their reasoning is: are they leaving you out to dry and taking advantage of what you gave them, were they not considering your contribution big enough to merit a larger compensation, or have they simply not been able to respond appropriately yet?

Regardless, I'm sorry you don't feel you received what you deserved. I mean, who wouldn't love a free jacket that you got to collaborate on?

-Dog

[Texan Scott]

Thanks, AD. There is a news site that claims ....fair, accurate, balanced. That's all I've tried to do here, but maybe my own investment in it colored my judgment some? I know that vendors have a thing for people asking for free stuff, on the whole, but I've never done that.

[car96]

So Tex I think you would deserve a free jacket for your work but. I just see how Wested would say no deal.

[Michaelson]

To call it what it is, you essentially 'screwed the pooch', Scott.

I'm speaking from literally YEARS of experience on this. The cardinal rule is you NEVER ask for freebies from a vendor, be it in this hobby or any related franchise, no matter how much you think you may deserve it after all your time and effort. You can ask for samples, such as leather pieces, but never ask for a finalized piece. Ever.

It puts in question why you approached them with the project in the first place, regardless of how pure your intentions were.

It takes a LONG time to gain the trust of a vendor. Many years, in fact. Only after you've shown you're not after personal gain will they feel comfortable to continue with the process and possibly into a prototype phase.....so yes, a LOT of us have 'worked for free' in order to encourage a vendor to create something we really wanted, many MANY times.

The only thing a large production vendor is interested in is to add to the bottom line. It takes time to convince them that to come around to meeting true specs from years of research, proving beyond shadow of a doubt it would be mutually beneficial to both parties to MAKE changes, will it work.

In the case of Wested, I KNOW there have been unscrupulous individuals who HAVE asked for free items, and Wested has been burned many times. Now when individuals approach them with honest intent, they're already on their guard.

You had their trust....until you popped the question, and that all went out the door, as you were then just added to the list of individuals they had been burned by. No matter how true your original intent really was, it's all for naught now.

You forgot you approached THEM, not the other way around. They owed you nothing, but offered you a discount for your volunteered information and interest. You switched it up on them, and they walked away.

The fact you got as far as you did in the short amount of time is fantastic. I thought those days were long gone, as many craftsman rarely take input from the fans after a franchise has been in existence as long as ours has.

I hate you had to learn this in first person, my friend, and I truly appreciate you making such an effort on the part of the community. It's unfortunate you made that misstep. Truly unfortunate....and unfortunate for the NEXT member of COW who has an idea for a vendor, as the hill just got steeper to the approach again.

Regards! Michaelson

[ChrisMD]

Absolutely well said M. I agree. In the firearms industry we see this very frequently. I have guys come to us with ideas for rifle builds, or what have you and ask for a freebie to test and show off to gain interest. As much as we may enjoy the ideas so many times, it is risky business. It is the same with everything, a few bad apples will ruin it for everyone. Tex your heart was in the right place and I hope you look at Wested's decision as business and in no way personal. As an Indy fan I appreciate your effort.

[CM]

Well put, Michaelson. You describe the psychological conditions around this fittingly and I would have thought this to be fairly clear from the start.

I wonder Texan Scott if it's too late to apologize, explain you were wrong to ask and see if they'll continue.

[Chewbacca Jones]

I have to agree with Michaelson. Regardless of what you might deserve, asking is just plain bad etiquette in this situation. It is true that others have received free stuff from time to time, but I have never heard of anyone getting free stuff as a result of asking for it.