Is a used Fed III worth it?

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:26 pm

All the pics of the Fed IVs look so good! I'm seriously thinking about getting my first Indy style hat, and I know the Fed IV would be a good choice. There are pics everywhere, so I have a great idea of how it looks. However, my budget is limited and unless the exchange rate dramatically changes it's out of reach. I've tried on the DP and Stetson Temple, and they just don't work for me. I actually got the Stetson to somewhat resemble a Raiders style, but it was like a square peg in a round hole and I could tell I needed a taller crown with straighter sides if it were going to stay that way.

After posting a WTB "Akubra Federation or hat modified to Indy style" thread here and on another forum, I did get one offer: for a Federation III

If I had the opportunity to pick up a Fed III for much cheaper than a new IV, do you all think it's worth it? I can't seem to find hardly any pics of the III, so I'm having a hard time trying to compare it to the IV. However, one offered actually has some narrower brim measurements than I expected:

Measuring on the bottom, from the edge of the sweatband to the front:

2 3/4"

Same method on the right side:

2 5/8"

I do think it has close to a 6" crown, but couldn't it be just as easily bashed to 4.5" in the front?

Thanks so much in advance for any advice, feedback, etc!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:31 pm

The Fed III would be a good choice, all things considered. Depends on what they are asking and what condition it's in. Pics would help, to see how it was bashed, used, etc. Especially if the budget is limited, you may be walking up on a good deal? 2 3/4" x 2 5/8" are solid. 5 3/4" standard for an Indy type hat, around 58 cm, although I usually like a lower crown of 5 1/2" but that would be custom.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:57 pm

Thanks. I measure 22" head circumference and this one is a size 57, which is what I was advised to get from HatsDirect on the Fed IV. The current owner said his Fed III hadn't shrunk down any, so unless I want to try doing the lampshade thing I'd be wearing it with foam strips. It's in great condition, not mint but very, very good. He got it new in 2003 but hasn't worn it much apparently. The bash is Raiders-like, and from what I see it looks like it could be a tad lower in front and the side dents more defined. Here are some pics from various years:

2003

2008

2012

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:35 pm

By the way, here's some mockup pics I've done for a Raiders hat on my head, to scale as best I could considering the angle.

All three compared: Stetson Temple, Federation III, Raiders film

For my recent try-on of the Stetson Temple, I bashed it close as I could to Raiders (meaning virtually no center dent in order to keep the sides straight). Front crease height is at 4.25" or 4.5." I used that image to layer other hats and used the respective ribbons as the proportion guide.

For the Raiders film hat, you can see that it really should be angled back slightly based on my head position, so it appears taller than it would in reality.

That Federation III image layered exactly at the height of the Stetson in the original photo, and I went slightly slightly slightly less than 1.5" wide on the ribbon when doing the mockup since it's tilted back just a tad. It is just about the best I've come across, from FedoraLounge user Jerekson. His original image was:

Bradsburns · Post by **Bradsburns** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:39 pm

Pull the trigger. It looks good. If it doesn't fit, sell it on and try again.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:47 pm

Just photoshop the SoC hat on your head and be done with it! You get the best of both worlds...Super SA at an incredible deal! I mean, next to nothing! Seriously, with a little tweaking, that would make a fine Indy lid! Whats the price on it?

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:56 pm

Just to be clear, the hat offered to me is the one above the mockup post. That awesome looking Fed III is just a good pic I found of its maximum potential. The hat in the post above the mockup post is being offered to me at $75 shipped.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:16 pm

Heres the deal bro. A brand new fed iv is 99 usd plus shipping. This hat is from 2003? Under those terms, it may not be such a good deal? Id say ask for say 55 shipped and if you can get it jump on it. Otherwise Id buy a new one.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Well, it's not a huge break, but for a tight budget, $75 shipped seems good to me if you can see the hat clearly and know it's in good shape. Ask the owner about fit, his head measurement, etc. I say that because
1. an older hat tends to shrink or expand slightly to conform to it's owner.
2. the sizing was slightly different on the Fed III.

As far an old Fed being good, they are tough hats, so unless it was really beaten, it should still be solid. And frankly, I liked the Fed III's look a little more. But that's me.

Post by **Dalexs** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:27 pm

I love the Feds. I've had a few of them... but if the 2003 hat for $75 shipped is the one you're talking about, that seems a bit high to me.

Like TS said, a new Fed IV is $99 USD. Throw on another $10 for shipping (at least that's what it used to be...)

Unless budget is really tight, I'd be more inclined to buy new, depending of course where you are located, and what the exchange rate is.

Dalexs

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:49 pm

The new Fed IV is 179.70 AUD shipped to the US, and converts to $128 USD. My general feeling is that I'd pay $75 for a used Fed IV in a second, no hesitation. Part of my hesitancy with the Fed III is that the crown is reportedly taller than the Fed IV. I found a thread in which it was discovered that at size 56 the Fed III crown is more like 5 1/2" but sizes above 56 are more like 6." I'm waiting to hear about the crown height on this particular hat...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:53 pm

Thanks D.

I agree, the hat IS12 years old. Not sure what the Fed III traded for 12 years ago, but $75 can't be much under retail.

No, don't think so MrQ....the Fed IV Heritage (top of the line) may sell for that, but not the regular Fed. It sells for 140 AUD. That is 99 USD.

$24 more and you have a new hat, your own bash, etc.

To each his own, though.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:03 pm

I hear you about the retail price way back in 2003. I bet it was around $75. I'm tending to agree with you there, about it being not that hot of a price.
(For the new Fed IV, yes, I was talking shipped price: shipping to the US is 39.70 AUD or $28.28 USD so $128 total)

Edit: I actually just looked it up, and in 2003 the Fed III regular went for 101 AUD. The exchange rate high was .74 for 2003 (at the end of the year). So that Fed III from 2003 was almost exactly $75 plus whatever shipping was.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:18 pm

I think at this point you have about 3 options. I might be tempted to 1. negotiate for a better deal, or 2. save a little for a new hat, be it Fed IV or 3. a custom? These days, $200 will get you in a custom if you are so inclined? If you have even a part time job, it would be easy to pay off, using credit, or save 'til you are ready? I think you may be glad you waited? This one could be a good beater, though, depending on what you use it for?

These days, a custom will get you a better fit as long as you measure correctly, better ribbon and bow work, usually better felt and hand made by a hatter. You can't undervalue the trained eyes of a good hatter that really cares about his product, and is usually made by a fan, for fans.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:49 pm

One other important thing to consider here; It's a Fed III, as in, they don't make them anymore.

So, for somebody who prefers the III over the IV, or wants it for the nostalgia, is going to view the price differently. So, to be fair, it's a matter of perspective. I prefer the III, and would love to get another in lightly used condition. So, I'd drop $75 on one in a heartbeat. But that is not really your situation, McQ.

So, my personal tastes aside; if you can wait to save up for a new IV, it might be wiser, unless you're in love with this particular hat.

As for considering custom, it's not really fair to measure a Fed against custom, and for somebody with a small budget, 1 hat at double the price isn't such a small issue. Being where I am financially now, I haven't bought a custom hat in about 5 years, and finding funds I'm willing to part with for even a Fed IV has not happened. And I'm a hat addict.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:09 pm

Who is measuring anything against anything? It's about choices. What else is out there.....

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:42 am

Chewbacca Jones wrote:One other important thing to consider here; It's a Fed III, as in, they don't make them anymore.

So, for somebody who prefers the III over the IV, or wants it for the nostalgia, is going to view the price differently. So, to be fair, it's a matter of perspective. I prefer the III, and would love to get another in lightly used condition. So, I'd drop $75 on one in a heartbeat. But that is not really your situation, McQ.

So, my personal tastes aside; if you can wait to save up for a new IV, it might be wiser, unless you're in love with this particular hat.

As for considering custom, it's not really fair to measure a Fed against custom, and for somebody with a small budget, 1 hat at double the price isn't such a small issue. Being where I am financially now, I haven't bought a custom hat in about 5 years, and finding funds I'm willing to part with for even a Fed IV has not happened. And I'm a hat addict.

I'm curious to know why you prefer the Fed III...when the IV came out it seemed like everyone raved about it in comparison.

Post by **Dalexs** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:05 am

That sounds about right. Shipping had always been about the same price (depending on exchange rate.)

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:31 pm

OK, talking color:
Is the regular Fed III brown as different as claimed than the regular Fed IV? Some pics it looks "brown" and other pics it can look sort of green-grey-brown. Since it's been a challenge to find Fed III pics in general, it's even more difficult to find one in brown that someone has said "this is true to life."

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Texas Scott; Gotcha. I've been over-tired, sorry.

McQ7;
Why do I prerer the Fed 3? Well, I liked the proportions - the brim was wider, the crown higher, and I liked the block (crown shape). It was a great balance between a Raiders style and a general 1930s style (which was the goal). The IV is more Crystal Skull in proportions. Still nice, to be sure.

The color thing is a toughy. I do like the IVs color better "out of the box" compared to the IIIs. It looks more brown. Both versions have a greenish quality, but the Fed III had more green in it. Lighting plays a big role, even in person. The Fed III "out of the box" was... weird. I almost returned my first one. But I was told that the color would get nicer and look more brown after being exposed to sunlight on a regular basis. It was true. The up side is, a used one won't need to age. A Fed IV color will also change, but less so, and it needs it less.
Regretably, I don't think I have ever seen a photo of a brown Fed that's true to life color.
I will see if I can dig up a photo or two of mine, nevertheless.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:43 pm

Well, I'm as much a fan of the Raiders as I am of the hats in old Bogart movies and others from the 30s, so that's a plus for the Fed III. This particular one is slightly smaller brimmed than other Fed III hats. It comes in at 2 3/4" x 2 5/8." I also learned that the crown is 5 1/2" or just a hair more on this particular size 57 hat.

It's encouraging to know that a Fed III would look more of a brown when exposed to sunlight. I'm from the world of guitars in which the red dyes are the first to fade (Les Pauls). In a green-brown hat that would mean it looks more green over time. So it's a relief to know that isn't the case here!

The seller really hasn't worn his Fed III very much and one of the reasons he is willing to part with it is because it isn't true brown enough for his preference in wearing it with his A2 and Wested Raiders jackets. He calls it something of a chameleon color.

Here's a deluxe vs regular Fed III--either of these colors look outstanding, in my opinion (and note that the very good bashed Fed III that I posted and photoshopped was a regular Fed III):

The regular Fed III by itself:

But then consider the color in these pics and Akubra's "mid brown" definitely looks grey-green-brown...

An Akubra mid brown vs a Fed IV in dark brown in an outdoor pic:

Another regular Fed III:

An Akubra Stylemaster in mid brown:

An Akubra RM in mid brown:

The Akubra Adventurer is sold in mid brown, as well:

Edit to add these pics I just found: Here's how different an Adventurer in mid brown can look depending on the lighting and surrounding objects:

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:08 am

All this research, what did you need us for?

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:52 am

Haha--well, I certainly and sincerely appreciate the experience, feedback, and advice given from you all! It has helped steer the direction of my research.
Since I've asked for help, I figure I should post the things I've discovered. I don't want to be just a leech, and I figure someone else might benefit from it or find it of use besides me.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:32 pm

I remember when I was new to all this. It seemed no matter how much research I did, how many questions I asked, I still felt like I needed more information. Oh, to be young again!

Well, I couldn't find any old pictures, but I took a bunch today in different lighting. This is a mid-brown Fed III, probably purchased around 2006. It has been worn a lot, in all kinds of weather. I especially like wearing it when it's snowing or sleeting while shoveling the driveway (keeps my neck dry), so at least you'll see a heavily used coloration. I tried to get the green to show, but it wouldn't come out in the photos, even when I could see it with my own eyes.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskjfrBaB
Full album

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:46 pm

An opening I saw was leverage, in terms of the "deal" and if you have any room to negotiate, you may get a pretty good deal? If not, I'd move on and get a new one. In terms of the Fed. $125 vs. $150 or so for the Standard vs. the Heritage, if you are a real hat enthusiast, and if you are considering a new Fed., then by current price ranges, you are not too far from a custom. If you decide to go in that direction, then I'd recommend a Garrison or Advintage. For $200, you would be getting a good deal on a custom hat. That is the best advice I could give. If for some reason you can't negotiate, then I think you might be glad you waited. Yes, there are merits to deferred gratification.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:19 pm

@Chewbacca Jones:
Thanks for understanding. It would be much simpler if I could just go down to the corner to the hat store and try on a bunch for color, crown height, etc! When I lived in NYC that was more of a possibility, but not so much here in Fayetteville, Arkansas.

That album is fantastic--thank you! I really appreciate the descriptions for each photo, too. Looks like the Fed III has held up very well and the color is great, in my opinion. I fully intend that my hat be worn rain or sleet or shine. I have a medium grey porkpie already and it's wool and I baby it, so I want this next hat to be for all weather.

@Texan Scott:
I see your points, and they're good ones. I think I agree that if I'm going to buy new and spend in the mid $100s for a hat, then just make it $200 and get a Garrison. Getting a lower price on this Fed III might be a good way for me to try out the specs and have a good reference point for a custom hat in the future, if I decide to upgrade.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:44 pm

I was able to negotiate a lower price, so I went for it! I'll start a NHD (new hat day) thread once I get it and load it with pics and probably ask a lot more questions. Thank you again everybody for helping me get sorted out with my decision--I really appreciate it!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:15 am

The art of the deal!

Post some pics when you get it?

Glad it worked out for you.

captblitzdawg · Post by **captblitzdawg** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:37 pm

Can you still find a Fed III these days, and if so, what do they go for?

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:27 am

To can only get them used these days, sadly.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:14 am

Drop Ron a line at HatsDirect and ask.

Sometimes they pop up in back inventory, depending on size.

It's happened before.

Regard! Michaelson

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:34 am

Texan Scott wrote:The art of the deal! Post some pics when you get it?

Glad it worked out for you.

I know it's been a little while since I last posted. I got the Fed III but I think it's just a bit too large--still loose even with the sizing foam strips. However, I also found a barely used Fed IV and it's ended up being a great fit, comfortable, and a nice structure (not too stiff, not too floppy). I rebashed the Fed III to a Last Crusade style (curled up sides help with the extra width), while the Fed IV got a Raiders bash (also rebashed since it had been given a teardrop dent). I plan to post pics soon!

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:04 pm

Hat pics! Taken with a Nikon 7100 and kit lens at 70 mm (apparently Raiders was filmed with 70mm). All pics were taken after noon and before 3 pm, so the sun is more or less directly overhead.

To answer my own question, the Fed III appears to be worth it but I prefer the smaller scale of the Fed IV. The Fed III is slightly more grey-green while the Fed IV is more red-brown. The Fed III is much stiffer, but I've heard that can vary between hats and the more one uses it the softer it gets anyway. But the Fed III is high-quality and I think it would look killer on someone with a larger stature. I stand 5'8" and 145 lbs.

By the way, the front height of the Fed III is 4.5" with a back height of 4." The Fed IV is at 4.25" front height and 3.75" back height.

First, here's the Fed III:

Here's the Fed IV:

And some other recent ones of the Fed IV with same camera settings:

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:07 pm

They both look great!

Regard! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:33 pm

Of the gray, I think the Fed III looks better with the larger brim, or at least it appears wider.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:37 pm

Texan Scott wrote:Of the gray, I think the Fed III looks better with the larger brim, or at least it appears wider.

You prefer the one on the top here?

Fed III

Fed IV

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:39 pm

the crown is fuller but the brim looks better...to me, that is.

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:43 pm

Thanks for the feedback! The Fed III has sort of that cowboy curl seen in Last Crusade. The Fed IV has that Raiders turn but you can't really see how the left side brim is curled up a tad. I might work on it a bit and add some curl to both sides...

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:00 am

Well, those pics, and your own preferences, certainly illustrate why some of us miss the III. Both look good, but I love that III! Especially with the bash you've done. That wouldn't happen to be a 59 or a 60, eh?

McQ7 · Post by **McQ7** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:55 pm

Chewbacca Jones wrote:Well, those pics, and your own preferences, certainly illustrate why some of us miss the III. Both look good, but I love that III! Especially with the bash you've done. That wouldn't happen to be a 59 or a 60, eh?

Thanks! The Fed III is labeled 57 but it fits larger than that. I can take some measurements and PM you later tonight or tomorrow.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:08 am

That's not necessary. I know for certain a 57 Fed3 won't fit.

I'm a low-range 60, which was the Fed3's size 59 when new.

Perhaps I'll take Michaelson's advice and give them a shout. I might get lucky.

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:11 am

It probably doesn't help much, but my only Indy hat is a Fed 3 and I love it. I bought it second hand back in 2008, no idea how old it actually is. I do feel the crown is slightly too tall on me, but that's probably because I only really wear it in costume, not for daily wear.

I actually love the colour of mine. It's worn, old and more than a bit dusty now, but I think it really gives it an adventured in look.

I'd share pics, but I'm on holiday at the moment (in Disneyworld; first time seeing Dorfman's up close, wow they're tiny...).