Wested Hero Raiders as compared to the BK Raiders

Obi Sean Kenobi · Post by **Obi Sean Kenobi** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:45 pm

Hi all,

So ive been seriously thinking about a BK Raiders.

However, I have one bone of contention with the BK, and, though it may sound petty, its the, ahem, cost.

From my use of the search feature, and following first hand reports on COW, and, upon information and belief, the pattern for the BK was sourced drectly from a TN.

Similarly, the Wested Hero pattern, upon information and belief, was similarly sourced from a TN.

Accordingly, the pattern for both the BK and the Wested Hero, being sourced from a TN, MUST be close or exactly the same, correct?

That being said, is the considerable difference in cost based solely on the leather used?

While I can understand some appreciable difference in cost for a difficult to source skin, and certainly the most appealing characteristic of the BK, in my mind, is the skin - does it warrant the BK being nearly double the cost of a Wested Hero?

My jacket 'arsenal' is fairly substantial, and has grown considerably in the 7 years Ive been a member here. However, I tend to place quite a bit of import on provenance. When buying my TN KotCS, I took in to account the fact that it was made by the same guy who made Ford's jacket from the film. From the same hide. And to Ford's specs. That, to me, made the substantial cost more palatable.

Similarly, when purchasing a Wested, though the pattern has gone through dozens of iterations, I still place value on the 'provenance'. These jackets originate from Peter - the guy who made the 'real deal' jackets.

Now the BK has no provenance whatsoever, so, and, again, this is my opinion only, I have a difficult time with the higher than average price tag.

In short, are they worth it? Or should I simply be satisfied with my Wested Hero?

Thoughts?

Regards,
OSK

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:02 pm

That issue has been raised before. I'd say, don't let anyone color your judgement, but take a romp through the Wested Hero and BK threads and see what the owners say about them. From the photos, what are your own thoughts? Your first gut reaction is probably the best and the right one....for you.

The question of "provenance"...if you have a jacket that is was produced by anyone, and based exactly on the measurements of "the" 1:1 film jacket, then it is difficult to argue against it, unless you see something amiss, in quality, materials, construction, specs & details, pattern, etc.; and if there was anything amiss, then members would have called them on it, would they not? Let's assume Peter made the Raiders jackets just for this example..? Who else has made reproductions of the Raiders jacket, and were not directly involved in making the jacket for film: Keepler/Flight Suits, USW, G&B, Todd, Magnoli, TN, BK, Diego...? The question that you may need to satisfy in your mind is, if others have been given the exact measurements, etc., then is that good enough?

After the fact, after the sale is made, a good litmus test is to check the Bazaar or Ebay, the second hand markets. How many have you seen up for sale from individuals (outside of sizing issues)?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:07 pm

All points agreed to, Tex, but I, too would like to hear from someone who owns both a Wested Hero and a Kelso and see what THEY have to say, now that more of the BK's are out there in owners hands.

As you've pointed in a recent post, the entire reason for this site to exist is to allow members who own these items to post their reviews of what they own.

This is a good comparison post using the specific criteria spelled out by OSK, and could help potential buyers figure out what's best for them regarding these two jackets.

Let the conversation proceed.

Regards !Michaelson

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:22 pm

I really did used to get 'hung up' on the authenticity of this stuff, but, really, provenance is only relevant to original items, or items produced by the actual person who produced originals, not who produces copies.

Regrettably, Tony is no longer around to produce his version, a copy of ONE of the original jackets from Raiders. And, I wouldn't debate anyone on the subject of who made that original jacket itself. Most agree Wested (LC) made some movie jackets. Some have strong opinions on which ones those were/weren't. Personally, I don't have the cash to chase that unicorn. But I tried for awhile!

I really like my Wested Hero jackets. But they are recent creations too, changes based on pattern variations people liked in other jackets. I also like my U.S. Wings Legend jackets. And all agree Todd's definitely has the Raiders vibe; mine does, to me, as much as any jacket I have.

The Kelso looks amazing, has very positive support from owners here, and really seems to be the first manufacturer to 'nail' the hide. I'm excited about the Steele and Jones, as well.

So, it seems as far as people, Peter is the guy everybody agrees was involved directly with original jackets. Maybe somebody else was, too.

Provenance infers "proof". Extraordinary provenance suggests documentation and certifications.

Good luck drawing conclusions on these jackets! I never could. I never really felt I was close. I just know which Indy jackets I reach for most of the time.

With reference to the BK Raiders, I dunno, but I want one!

If only it were as easy as finding the boots, and hats!

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:24 pm

Sorry, I don't have the BK myself. Just my thoughts on the provenance aspect. It seems elusive and finally futile to me!

Didn't MEAN to be repetitive. But I guess I was.

But a specific technical comparison between these two may really help some people trying to decide.

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:15 pm

Ok I (obviously) own a BK Straited lamb. One of the first out the door actually
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h304/ ... 064945.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
....And I have owned or currently own a Wested Washed Goat, Wested Dark Lambskin RoLA, Wested lambskin OTR, Wested Goat Raiders, Wested Lambskin Crunch custom, Wested Cotton Raiders, Wested Russian Attack X-Men and my current Wested Hero in Authentic Lamb.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h304/ ... 0542-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wanted to chime in but as I don`t look so hard at "provenence" I kinda feel like my opinion isn`t really part of the converstion.
For anyone else interested, I have to start by saying that I love Wested. Their size 38 fits me like a custom fit and I have never had any problems with their service or quality. My only real thorn is that I every jacket I have had from them has had a wide yoke and I am a real pain about that one issue. I have even specified that as a concern and was told it couldn`t be changed without altering the pattern. Other than that, they have all been great jackets and really fit the bill, especially the Hero.
With that said, the BK just raised the standards for me as Nowak did originally. We were no longer second guessing what the pattern might be but had a structure with some real lineage. This thing is a whole different creature. It sits right, it feels right, it acts right, right outa the box. I can`t explain it or even understand it but it is the "perfect storm" that once was that created the original...pattern, hardware, leather, build.
Now I am not a leather expert. I only know what I have learned from listening to you guys but I feel that Wested uses some great leathers and their quality is just as good as any of other jackets I have owned. And you could probly get a great SA jacket if you go personally to The Barn and deal with Mr. Botwright directly. But the Kelso has "the Pattern" and, once again, is perfectly SA right out of the box!
For what it`s worth....

Toldog07 · Post by **Toldog07** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:02 pm

Gorak, is your BK authentic brown?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:27 pm

I have both a Wested Hero in dark brown lamb and the BK in striated lamb. In my opinion, what you have onhand is vertually the same pattern, save some very minor differences, so minor that it is really not worth talking about.

As previously mentioned, Wested has really improved its jacket making capabilities over the past 3 years or so, in terms of quality and accuracy. There is little doubt in my mind that personnel at Wested at least looked at a TN Raiders, Todd's and other similiar jackets and then modified their own patterns accordingly to produce the Hero. In another thread, Peter admitted as much. The similarities are uncanny. I have found all the Wested Hero jackets in my possession, and I had or still have the Hero in (thin, old stock) dark brown goat, seal brown goat, and now the Tibor dark brown lamb, to be well made. However, the Hero in dark brown lamb is the jacket that I always wanted to receive from Wested, and the details are vertually spot on, with a few very minor exceptions that few would be concerned about. Materials used in the jacket are classic Wested. In other words, he still sources vertually the same leather, liner and hardware. That much has remained. In all, if had been brand new to the hobby and this was my first jacket purchase, I would have been very content with the Hero. It is the jacket you always wished Wested would have made.

Bill Kelso's Relic Hunter, as we know, is supposedly a copy of a 1:1 TN Raiders, and sized up or down accordingly. I have found the RH in striated lamb to be exceptionally well made, stitching is precise. This striated lamb is of the highest quality leather, and very faithful, if not vertually identical to the Hero, film jacket, in terms of color, texture and thickness. They will cut the jacket leather to include more or fewer striations depending, and on any panels of the jacket you prefer. The liner is the warmest I have worn in an Indy type jacket; and in terms of quality hardware, they use a #5 YKK nickel colored zipper with 3 star, silver colored n****e snaps. It is obvious, based on the leather, materials and craftsmanship that they cater to high end customers that want no compromises with their Raiders reproduction jackets.

In the past, I have set as my limit, $500, as the highest price I would pay for an Indy jacket, due to my own criteria and beliefs in a jacket of this type, but I took the plunge on this Relic Hunter and have not been disappointed. It is vertually the screen jacket delivered to you. Pics to follow...

Still the question remains, and only you can answer it...is the extra $500 justified? If you are looking for value, then the Wested Hero in your choice of leather is quite the bargain, considering the latter. Much of this depends upon how you approach the hobby, as a fan, collector, etc., but if you already have a Hero onhand, are not satisfied, and do not mind spending the extra money, then the Relic Hunter is as close to the screen jacket as has been produced to date.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:27 am

So, when can we expect to see your Wested Hero posted for sale in the classified ads, TS?

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 am

...ha! This one may always be with me along with the G&B goat and BK.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:44 am

We'll see.

Regards! Michaelson

Obi Sean Kenobi · Post by **Obi Sean Kenobi** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:40 am

Thanks all!

In distilling my question down further, I want to know if the skin of the Kelso alone is the cause of the $500+/- cost disparity between the BK and the Wested?

Is this skin REALLY that difficult to source, and from a suppliers cost perspective, really that expensive for them to acquire?

In candor, I can't help but simply balk at the price of the BK.

Regards,
OSK

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:25 am

The problem is you have buy one to really know if it was worth the money. All the advice may help but in the end it's in the eye of the beholder.

Gailen

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:34 am

This is very much an eye of the beholder situation in my opinion. I doubt that the cost of the hide alone can justify the difference in price, but maybe I'm wrong. Who knows? On the other hand it's all relative. Everyone who has bought the BK has been very happy with what they got. Would they have been happier if it had been cheaper? Sure, but I haven't heard anyone complain that the jacket he received wasn't worth every cent they paid for it. So, as usual with these things it comes down to you. From what you know of the jacket from the info here and elsewhere is it worth the extra money to you? To me it sounds like it probably isn't, which is perfectly ok. If I had the cash I'd buy a BK at the drop of a hat, but several years ago I would have looked askance at paying that kind of money for a jacket. Buy the Hero and wait, because sooner or later the BKs will start showing up in the Bazaar as do all the jackets here, and they will definitely be cheaper.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:56 am

ShanghaiJack wrote: Buy the Hero and wait, because sooner or later the BKs will start showing up in the Bazaar as do all the jackets here, and they will definitely be cheaper.

There's some good advice, as that, indeed, has been past practice on absolutely every item purchased and used here. That tipping point hasn't been reached yet, but it will.

As and example, I recall we had the same frenzy on TN's and the Wested Hero's back in the day, and they now come and go in the classified on an almost weekly basis.

If you wear a size 44, there's a Wested Hero just about to fall off the classified page that's for sale 'as we speak'.

Regards! Michaelson

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:57 am

Once my first Kelso arrived, I sold all my Wested Heros. I have one older distressed Weated (custom non-hero) still. I'm pretty much in the same place with Gorak ... Two absolutely critical things to me are the look of the hide and the size of the yoke (I want it small like Gorak).

I like the Wested Hero but none of the leathers they have come close for me. And they do tend to drift the pattern a bit and still allow too much vertical length in the yoke to minimize the size of the back panel for my tastes.

To me the BK leather sets a new standard for matching what I see on the screen. I'm looking forward to the Steele and Jones which is using a similar hide (waiting to see).

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:05 am

Michaelson wrote: As and example, I recall we had the same frenzy on TN's and the Wested Hero's back in the day, and they now come and go in the classified on an almost weekly basis.
Regards! Michaelson

Yup, in fact that's how I acquired my TN, and at a substantially lower price than I would have paid if I had bought it brand new. Sure, it's had five owners before me, but I kind of like that actually. It has a provenance in this weird hobby of ours!

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:20 am

My RH is in the Straited Lamb Authentic Brown and ,TO ME, skin/color wise, it matches the blue ray, dvd, blue ray extras, promo pics and advertisements in every shade of color as this particular skin tends to chameleon into brown, warm brown, dark brown, black, ash grey, any type of variation of color that the Raiders jacket has appeared to me is captured with this particular leather. No other jacket I have can do that and still resemble the thin floppy smooth/grainy leather that this does. My other jackets resemble scenes or versions of the Raiders jacket...this one has them all rolled into this one leather. That may be what makes it so special as I don`t see any big difference quality-wise in some of the other leathers that I have experienced. But again, I know nothing about real leather quality other than what I am learning here.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:47 am

You know, I was thinking. When it comes to these jackets and if I was thirty years old with two kids, a car payment, and a mortgage, and working my butt off to make ends meet. Then I would certainly not entertain buying one of these upper end jackets. There are priorities in life and these jackets are not one of them. If I were in that position then a Todd's, used off E-bay would be great and I'd be thrilled to own it. If your family is in need of anything and your buying a Kelso with the money, your wife should take you outside and kick your tail. I've seen many marriages break up over hobbies. Hope I'm not speaking out of turn. And no, I'm not trying to be a Financial Advisor.

Gailen

Obi Sean Kenobi · Post by **Obi Sean Kenobi** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:07 pm

All,

I was involved in a private conversation regarding this thread, and thought Id share one of my own thoughts on the topic, that I think pertinent to the issue at hand.

Heretofore, Ive simply chalked the BK up to a 'fad'. As I am sure many of you recognize, the "in" jacket tends to change fairly regularly around here.

As I rapidly approach my 40s, the impulsivity of my younger self has been, largely, quelled, such that I can think rationally when presented with the newest and coolest 'thing' around. And at the end of the day, these jackets aren't decidedly different from the fast cars, good looking women, and cool shades that inspire most of our gender.

What I find mystifying about the BK is the sheer willingness to plunk down $800+ for a jacket from a relative unknown with no connection whatsoever to any actual Indy production. And while we may quibble about Peter's level of involvement, I think it beyond reproach he had some hand in the Raiders jacket.

Perhaps the skin that constitutes the BK jacket really is that expensive for BK to source and acquire and there isnt the significant mark-up that I perceive to be associated with the jacket. In the end, I think thats what galls me the most, that I believe the cost of the jacket to be entirely smoke and mirrors, and that there is a significant mark up that, in my mind, is completely unwarranted given its lack of provenance.

Either way, I doubt we will have anyone from BK come forward with invoices demonstrating the actual cost of the skins to BK. And, in candor, they shouldnt have to. Thats the beauty of capitalism. Good for them if they are able to make some money out of this. I freely admit its a beautiful jacket. Perhaps Im just grouchy its out of my current disposable income budget.

Im ticked I cant afford a Porsche either.....

Regards,
Sean

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:12 pm

Obi Sean Kenobi wrote:All,

I was involved in a private conversation regarding this thread, and thought Id share one of my own thoughts on the topic, that I think pertinent to the issue at hand.

Heretofore, Ive simply chalked the BK up to a 'fad'. As I am sure many of you recognize, the "in" jacket tends to change fairly regularly around here.

As I rapidly approach my 40s, the impulsivity of my younger self has been, largely, quelled, such that I can think rationally when presented with the newest and coolest 'thing' around. And at the end of the day, these jackets aren't decidedly different from the fast cars, good looking women, and cool shades that inspire most of our gender.

What I find mystifying about the BK is the sheer willingness to plunk down $800+ for a jacket from a relative unknown with no connection whatsoever to any actual Indy production. And while we may quibble about Peter's level of involvement, I think it beyond reproach he had some hand in the Raiders jacket.

Perhaps the skin that constitutes the BK jacket really is that expensive for BK to source and acquire and there isnt the significant mark-up that I perceive to be associated with the jacket. In the end, I think thats what galls me the most, that I believe the cost of the jacket to be entirely smoke and mirrors, and that there is a significant mark up that, in my mind, is completely unwarranted given its lack of provenance.

Either way, I doubt we will have anyone from BK come forward with invoices demonstrating the actual cost of the skins to BK. And, in candor, they shouldnt have to. Thats the beauty of capitalism. Good for them if they are able to make some money out of this. I freely admit its a beautiful jacket. Perhaps Im just grouchy its out of my current disposable income budget.

Im ticked I cant afford a Porsche either.....

Regards,
Sean

Well said.

Gailen

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:17 pm

I'm a dealer in a unrelated collectables hobby. When a younger collector wants to buy an expensive item for $2000 and I can tell he's under preasure. I tell him to take twenty hundered dollar bills and lay them on the floor. Now look at the item you wish to purchase. Then I say to him, is it worth it?

Gailen

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:24 pm

Obi Sean Kenobi wrote:Thanks all!

In distilling my question down further, I want to know if the skin of the Kelso alone is the cause of the $500+/- cost disparity between the BK and the Wested?

Is this skin REALLY that difficult to source, and from a suppliers cost perspective, really that expensive for them to acquire?

In candor, I can't help but simply balk at the price of the BK.

Regards,
OSK

For me, it was not strictly about the skin, although that was one of the criteria. The BK is simply a well made jacket, and assembled with quality materials, but pattern/details and quality are equally as important. The leather that most closely matches the BK is the skin that Todd has sourced for his new Std. jackets. Even then, you have some gaps to bridge, close but not quite there. Had USW possibly have sourced a thinner striated lamb, theirs may have been very close. I do not know how easy or difficult this skin would be to obtain as a vendor, and certainly they (BK) would not reveal their sources, but if Wested sourced this type of leather, or something very, very similiar, then that would make the Hero that much more the bargain, and close the discussion in my pov, even if you paid $350 for this hypothetical jacket it would still be quite the bargain, all things considered. Yet, the BK is the most accurate likeness to the Raiders jacket that has been made to date. TN got really close, and S. Jack's is one of the best in that department. I know that a few weeks ago, you took a chance on a TN, and if you are willing to pay these kinds of prices, then I'd say, take a chance and see for yourself.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:32 pm

Regardless of where they source their hides, I have heard through the grapevine that after the 1st of the year, leather prices are going to climb again, so if you're on the fence, make a decision and lock in an order somewhere. Things are going up yet again in 2013.

Regards! Michaelson

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:08 pm

I sure wish leather jackets and felt hats would go out of style in China!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:16 pm

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:04 pm

Speaking of BKs up for sale in the Bazaar, here's one now.

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=58727

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:45 pm

The funny thing is, I felt the same way about the Nowak when it first came out. I was shocked in the excuberant prices some of you guys were paying. And some of you bought several of them. It didn`t matter to me what his connection was, the prices he was charging was ridiculous in my eyes and in many cases, it was much more than the Kelso is) I was intrigued about the right pattern concept but that was just wayyyy to much money for a jacket. So I waited until I could get some off the bizzare and trade for some and so on, and while I loved the pattern and thought it was right, I never came across one in a leather that I liked or could use in humid south Texas. So when I heard that Bill Kelso was replicating that pattern in a thinner skin, I jumped in eyes closed....made sure my kids had food, a roof, and toys, that the wife was good to go, bills were paid then I sold some stuff, saved enough and jumped on the bandwagon...knowing that the Nowak pattern in a thinner skin was "IT" for me. And it was and I`m happy and have no regrets in the money I spent. Even on the other jackets as I know what I am not missing. So if you still have a Raiders jacket bug, wait until Diego brings out his creation and then weigh the options...if his doesn`t fill you up then go for the Kelso. If you are already satisfied with your Raiders jacket regardless of who made it then be happy and wear the beejesus outa it!

I know we have flavors of the month...I am already drooling over Diego`s new HJ offering...but sometimes those particular flavors satisfy a members palate and he never goes hungry again....like me and my quest for the Raiders of The Lost Ark Jacket!

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Gorak wrote:The funny thing is, I felt the same way about the Nowak when it first came out. I was shocked in the excuberant prices some of you guys were paying. And some of you bought several of them. It didn`t matter to me what his connection was, the prices he was charging was ridiculous in my eyes and in many cases, it was much more than the Kelso is) I was intrigued about the right pattern concept but that was just wayyyy to much money for a jacket. So I waited until I could get some off the bizzare and trade for some and so on, and while I loved the pattern and thought it was right, I never came across one in a leather that I liked or could use in humid south Texas. So when I heard that Bill Kelso was replicating that pattern in a thinner skin, I jumped in eyes closed....made sure my kids had food, a roof, and toys, that the wife was good to go, bills were paid then I sold some stuff, saved enough and jumped on the bandwagon...knowing that the Nowak pattern in a thinner skin was "IT" for me. And it was and I`m happy and have no regrets in the money I spent. Even on the other jackets as I know what I am not missing. So if you still have a Raiders jacket bug, wait until Diego brings out his creation and then weigh the options...if his doesn`t fill you up then go for the Kelso. If you are already satisfied with your Raiders jacket regardless of who made it then be happy and wear the beejesus outa it!
I know we have flavors of the month...I am already drooling over Diego`s new HJ offering...but sometimes those particular flavors satisfy a members palate and he never goes hungry again....like me and my quest for the Raiders of The Lost Ark Jacket!

Nail -- hit -- directly on the head! Everyone who has/is, or will pursue this hobby will all go through the 'pain-of-growth' steps until 'they are personally, satisfied!' And, 'that' is a big 'if,' in itself, as when the 'next-better-newer yet, closer-item' appears -- well, back into the boat again for the ride! Whether it's the jacket. The hat. The whip, etc. Face it -- it is an addiction, just like any other addiction. At the moment, I am quite content! But, I have felt that way many times before and yet -- yep -- jumped right back into the boat

. W>

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:26 pm

I think we are moving to a position where it seems we are trying to defend a vendor and a jacket, but I'm not, it is just your decision to make. Truth is, any jacket I now have onhand, if I had no other, would been good enough. Each have their merits and strengths.

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:08 am

WConly wrote:
Gorak wrote:The funny thing is, I felt the same way about the Nowak when it first came out. I was shocked in the excuberant prices some of you guys were paying. And some of you bought several of them. It didn`t matter to me what his connection was, the prices he was charging was ridiculous in my eyes and in many cases, it was much more than the Kelso is) I was intrigued about the right pattern concept but that was just wayyyy to much money for a jacket. So I waited until I could get some off the bizzare and trade for some and so on, and while I loved the pattern and thought it was right, I never came across one in a leather that I liked or could use in humid south Texas. So when I heard that Bill Kelso was replicating that pattern in a thinner skin, I jumped in eyes closed....made sure my kids had food, a roof, and toys, that the wife was good to go, bills were paid then I sold some stuff, saved enough and jumped on the bandwagon...knowing that the Nowak pattern in a thinner skin was "IT" for me. And it was and I`m happy and have no regrets in the money I spent. Even on the other jackets as I know what I am not missing. So if you still have a Raiders jacket bug, wait until Diego brings out his creation and then weigh the options...if his doesn`t fill you up then go for the Kelso. If you are already satisfied with your Raiders jacket regardless of who made it then be happy and wear the beejesus outa it!
I know we have flavors of the month...I am already drooling over Diego`s new HJ offering...but sometimes those particular flavors satisfy a members palate and he never goes hungry again....like me and my quest for the Raiders of The Lost Ark Jacket!
Nail -- hit -- directly on the head! Everyone who has/is, or will pursue this hobby will all go through the 'pain-of-growth' steps until 'they are personally, satisfied!' And, 'that' is a big 'if,' in itself, as when the 'next-better-newer yet, closer-item' appears -- well, back into the boat again for the ride! Whether it's the jacket. The hat. The whip, etc. Face it -- it is an addiction, just like any other addiction. At the moment, I am quite content! But, I have felt that way many times before and yet -- yep -- jumped right back into the boat . W>

I feel the same way about all the gear. I have found myself starting with one (whatever) then learning more and buying another vendors version, etc. It has been like that with shirts, pants, hats. I just got my first whip last month and I'm sure it won't be my last. And today I ordered Aldo 405's. But, I can't imagine any Raiders jacket being more of what "I" expect the perfect jacket to be than the Relic Hunter Striated Lamb. Yes, I hate plunking down that much green, but after getting it and putting it on, I have no regrets. And though mine was sized slightly wrong to my request...the great customer service at BK is correcting this as we speak (or read). And when you spend a lot you want not only high quality but 1st class customer service. I am getting both.

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:28 am

I'll be more than likely selling my BK soon (in January) as I have a new one on order.

Regarding costs of BK etc (andI would say the same goes for TNO) - it is definitely worth it. If I added up all the cost I'd spent on Westeds, Todds and US Wings - all of it went to waste (I sold them all). If I'd had the opportunity to buy a BK straight off I would have saved all that.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:14 am

The thing about the BK is that I haven't seen one single picture that shows that it hasn't captured the vibe of the film jacket. Not one. There might be some issues in sizing but not one single picture makes me think "Oh, that doesn't quite look right." And I haven't said that of any other jacket from any other manufacturer. The grainiest BK is not too grainy. The smoothest one is not too pristine. The striations are purposely in the right spot. The back yoke shows the grain of the WoS scene. The colour is so dead on, as is the weight and thickness. Consistently. I think this consistency, and the fact that this jacket might be YOUR end-all-be-all Raiders jacket, is where the price difference becomes acceptable.

Ok, so I got one of these BK jackets in my hands today, and I think I get it; it really is jacket that takes the best elements of all those other jackets and puts it into one. I don't think it's a fad, but serious sharp attention to which details are important, and the execution of them.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:37 am

...just taking a stroll through an older thread. Some great points of discussion here, on the merits of collecting, wants and needs, and chasing the reward at the end of a rainbow, that has been and forever shall be so elusive.

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:44 pm

Baldwyn wrote:The thing about the BK is that I haven't seen one single picture that shows that it hasn't captured the vibe of the film jacket. Not one. There might be some issues in sizing but not one single picture makes me think "Oh, that doesn't quite look right." And I haven't said that of any other jacket from any other manufacturer. The grainiest BK is not too grainy. The smoothest one is not too pristine. The striations are purposely in the right spot. The back yoke shows the grain of the WoS scene. The colour is so dead on, as is the weight and thickness. Consistently. I think this consistency, and the fact that this jacket might be YOUR end-all-be-all Raiders jacket, is where the price difference becomes acceptable.

Ok, so I got one of these BK jackets in my hands today, and I think I get it; it really is jacket that takes the best elements of all those other jackets and puts it into one. I don't think it's a fad, but serious sharp attention to which details are important, and the execution of them.

And...2.5 years later, I've had 3 used BK's pass through my hands, and bought 2 directly from 'em (Victory horse, and later, a Striated Lamb). I no longer seek an Indiana Jones jacket. What's funny is, I had this great BK jacket in my size, that was the wrong colour, but I loved it! Eventually, Gorak took it off my hands, and I got the Striated Lamb to fulfill that "screen accurate" itch (what can I say, they were running a sale). But even the imperfect Bill Kelsos (wrong size, too long, wrong color) were great jackets that looked great. The grainy lamb is a GREAT leather, and I think I would have been completely happy with one of those too. All the other Indy jackets I've had, I picked apart the details because I didn't actually like the jackets.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:34 am

I will have to start by saying I like the looks of the Indy jacket as I like A2 jackets but not the knit cuffs and waists on them. I am also not a stickler for a finding an exact match to any of the movie jackets. I own many Indy style jackets in various leathers to include BK, Todds, Wested, G&B, WPG and US Wings. Heck - even have one of those old import lottery jackets.

Have 2-S&J jackets on order as well.

I like them all. Between my Wested Hero and BK, I like the BK better fit wise. That being said, if I could only keep 2 jackets from my current collection, it would be my Wested Raiders in goat and my G&B in goat.

This is not taking anything away from my other jackets but it is just what I like.

Forrest For the Trees · Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:11 pm

Anyone reading this who wants to buy an Indy jacket and can stomach the price, get a Kelso and be done with it! Best by far. Pattern, leather, and fit are all perfect. Even the off-the-shoulder fit feels and looks more natural on the Kelso than the other makers' attempts at the hero jacket. Now if only BK would source different buckles... Anyone figure out how to replace those?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:47 am

Can a guy justify the extra $500 to get the remaining 15% or so of appearance, skin color and texture?

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:15 am

For the ones that really like to complain about those types of things (ahem) stitch Nazis I believe they are sometimes referred to........ Yes!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:55 am

.....surely there is nobody around here like that....?

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:16 pm

As a guy who obsesses of certain details in other hobbies I can 110% understand where you are coming from Tex. It all comes down to personal preference. I'm not trying to be Harrison Ford so a close enough jacket works for me. But other hobbies like gun collecting or truck parts, I WILL go that extra $500 or whatever. Why do I NEED a P38 with no import marks? Because it's that much better. So to your point Tex, I can absolutely see that extra $500 as justified for some people.

As M taught me, you only live once.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:44 pm

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:35 pm

I just wish he'd stop wearing that hot pink #YOLO t-shirt.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:38 am

Indiana Jeff wrote:I just wish he'd stop wearing that hot pink #YOLO t-shirt.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I just found out what "yolo" means after having to google it about a month ago. I kept hearing it and seeing it. Talk about ruining a great age old expression! I blame that Bookface all the youngin's are on these days.

Forrest For the Trees · Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:50 am

Texan Scott wrote:Can a guy justify the extra $500 to get the remaining 15% or so of appearance, skin color and texture?

I've owned 8 other Indy jackets, spending a lot of money on them over eight years. It was definitely worth it to me. And not just for reasons of screen accuracy; it just looks and fits the best. And it is that elusively perfect color of brown that no other vendor seems to have nailed down.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:39 am

That's the question I had originally raised in the review. I suppose everyone will need to determine that, one way or the other.....

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:23 am

Anyone reading this who wants to buy an Indy jacket and can stomach the price, get a Kelso and be done with it! Best by far. Pattern, leather, and fit are all perfect. Even the off-the-shoulder fit feels and looks more natural on the Kelso than the other makers' attempts at the hero jacket. Now if only BK would source different buckles... Anyone figure out how to replace those?

Boy, have I got good news for you.
After years of efforts we have sourced the ultimate screen accurate buckles. They are a perfect match to the film used jacket. Plan to show you a comparison pictorial soon.

All jackets made from July onwards will feature the new screen accurate buckles.

Forrest For the Trees · Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:57 am

That is great news. Would love to see them. Any recommendation on how to swap out the old ones? Looks impossible to me.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:24 am

Forrest For the Trees wrote:That is great news. Would love to see them. Any recommendation on how to swap out the old ones? Looks impossible to me.

Yes, I do. I changed d-rings to buckles on an LC Wested. My leather guy went through the lining and did the job (and of coarse put everything back in place) and it worked out great. Only charged me $25.00 for the work, but he has always been super-fair in his pricing. It can be done by simply going through the sleeve (one sleeve) into the jacket body, itself. W>