chest size vs actual pit-to-pit measurement

[bobbyd]

All -

So I've got a BK RH on order, and a poll request for the esteemed members of this board. I'm struggling with what chest size is appropriate for the fit (I actually posed this question to Gorak in another thread - http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61915" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - but rather than hijack that thread, I figured I'd move it here and pose the question to the rest of the board in doing so). Anyway, noting that most leather jackets offer anywhere from 2" to 8" of extra room around the chest (e.g. the BK RH size 42 has a pit-to-pit measurement of 23.5", for a total of 47" of space; 5" above the 42 noted by the size), I'm interested in hearing experiences in terms of:
- your chest size
- pit-to-pit measurement of jacket(s) you've owned, noting jacket type/style
- your impression of fit (too tight, too loose, goldilocks)

Please do not feel compelled to limit responses to IJ jackets. Given my current Jones (forgive the awful pun, even I'm disappointed in myself) for a handful of other jackets - WOTW "hero", Wolverine XO, A2 repro - I'm also interested in hearing if somebody likes an extra 5" in an Indy jacket, but maybe only an extra 3" in a biker jacket or A2.

Thanks in advance!

-bd

[Gorak]

I have always noticed that the majority of guys want more in the chest for layering or feeling that the screen jacket was baggy and all sorts of other subjective opinions....so mine is: I like it to be snug in the chest and waist area. Some vendors, like Wested specifically, even though they have extra room in the chest, their jackets still tend to fit me "tight" in the chest, which I love and feel is more appropriate to the Raiders jacket. But it falls into the realm of vendors particular patterns and what you feel the jacket was like.....I felt it was just a second skin type of precaution against brush, bugs and such more than " against the weather elements" and therefore would be cumbersome if it was baggy fitting.

[TheExit148]

Here's my basic golden rule for best fit for me (pretty fitted). I measure 38" across my chest.

- Higher arm holes = 4" of additional room, so pit to pit is usually 21.25" across.
- Lower arm holes = 2" of additional room, so pit to pit is usually 20.25" across.

[Texan Scott]

I think 4" to 5" is the norm, but its a preference thing, as to how you want it to fit. I'd say, 2" to 4" for a slim guy in an Indy jacket.

[Illinois James]

Only 2 inches extra room beyond my actual chest measurement and I wouldn't be able to inhale with the jacket zipped. My chest measures an actual 45" and depending on cut and brand, I wear 44's and 46's. I try to keep 4" of extra room. I guess if your jacket's always unzipped and you're costuming it wouldn't matter.

Keep in mind, when you order a jacket that barely fits, it's gonna shrink over time. Sooner if you get caught in a few rain showers. Lambskin can shrink in downright crazy ways.

Anybody who really knows jackets will tell you there's not a hill of beans worth of difference in the way the jacket looks from only
one size to another. Buy what feels right.

I go a little more snug with motorcycle-specific jackets.

When I see the posts of guys measuring 19" pit-to-pit for a size 40 jacket, it makes me wonder how he's measuring it.

Bill Kelso has a nice little video showing how to measure a jacket. Based on that measurement, ask the vendor what size to order.

JMO,YMMV, etc, etc

[Gorak]

I think I explained my measuring method simply.....I zip up the jacket all the way, lay it as flat on the floor as possible and measure from one side right, under the arm, to the other side. THEN I reach under and find the seams and pull them out and let the jacket relax so as to not measure it as it is stretched, and measure from seam to seam.
And, in my experience, as much as lambskin shrinks, it also stretches and "molds" to a body especially in areas that get used a lot ( the elbows, the upper back, pockets) and, while everybody is going to get something different, I have never had a jacket shrink beyond my liking. Now, I "expanded" from a 38 to a size 40 but that was all me, not my jackets!
I think most of us should just accept that all this customizing is really all for not unless you are personally and physically there to be measured and tailored. A good tailor will be able to make you an article of clothing based not only on your measurements but on how you hold up those measurements. If you slouch, stand tall, hold your shoulders back, elbows back, stand evenly balanced, all those things affect how clothing will sit on you.
One of my favorite hats, Steele & Jones, fit so well because Diego and company asked for pictures of my head.....I've heard Pen man does that on occassion....so when we customize with someone like Wested, especially if we are across oceans, we are still almost buying OTR. And as such, all these measurements just get frustrating and confusing. ....at least for me it does!
And just to throw a whole monkey wrench in the whole thread, I usually wear a 38 and in the past year have started wearing 40's....and I just now had wife measure me and, with my tailors tape, my chest came out to 41! Huh!?

[Illinois James]

Gorak, I completely agree. Nobody is going to fit you like a tailor, in person, with your input to him directly on how you'd like an article of clothing to fit. It makes perfect sense to me that you wear a 40 and measure 41 inches, actually. I measure 45 and often wear a 44. I just don't understand how a size 40 Wested or Kelso jacket could have a pit-to-pit measurement of less than 21 inches. Doubled, that's only 2" of room, and that, measured on the outside of the jacket. Other manufacturers do mark garments according to the actual measurement, but not often.

The chest measurement is a guideline for me, really. But, if a tailor properly fit me for, say, a Wested Hero, the likelihood is I wouldn't really have a Hero when the jacket was completed. Maybe the Hero is a bad example because it's wonky to begin with. But that's the case with most stock jackets. You buy the size that fits best within the limitations of the pattern and cut. Even Belstaff employs letter sizing. With the Hero, I need a 46 to have room in the chest, even though it gives me way more room in the stomach than I need. If I have them taper it down to fit, it probably wouldn't really resemble a Hero pattern anymore, but rather, just an 'Indy' style jacket. If I were more slim it would require less tweaking. Just me, though.

With regards to measuring the chest, I guess I don't consider any seams. It's the whole garment that has to make it around your body regardless of where the seams land. Unless I'm missing something. Sometimes the front and back lay flat and the seams are visible, sometimes, but rarely, they're in the back, and sometimes they're in front by a half inch or more on each side.

I will say that I've seen jackets with generous chest dimensions that have small dimensions between the sleeve seams, just across the chest where the sleeve panels 'scoop' into the front main panel halves of the jacket, such that it fits well until you zip it up. In that case, it fits loose across the back, but tight only between the sleeves in front, if you get my meaning.

I just zip it up and lay it flat, stretch it flat, let it relax, flatten out the front storm flap, and measure below the sleeves, or, if present, just below the gussets. That's where I measure my chest. When I order from a Wested, it's basically just chest size, body length (front and back) and sleeve length. That's barely 'custom', really. I don't have a list of tweaks for screen accuracy, and, if I tried tweaking the jacket for fit, I may as well order a standard Raiders. Again, just me.

If you throw in an oversized shoulder dimension, the whole jacket is gonna sag down and feel too big, because you're chest is now well into the armhole region.

So, yeah, having someone intimately familiar with the pattern present to help fit you would be optimum. If you can visit the shop, definitely do it.

Makes me sad I didn't go to see Tony in person and get measured up for one if his. My CS fits well, but the sleeves are just too big around. Otherwise, the jacket itself could've been tailored for me.

Out of 4 size 46 Wested Heros, mine all fit the same, though, with the exception of my asking for longer sleeves on 2 of them. So, they're consistent in my experience.

Again, Kelso's little video is good, though.

[knibs7]

Where is this video that keeps being mentioned? I can't find it anywhere. "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!"


Kyle

[Illinois James]

Kyle, you're not crazy. My bad.

First, it's a PDF, not a video. There was a video link in one of my emails with Kelso, but it was to a funny movie clip with DeNiro selling cars in one of the 'Analyze This' movies, I think. Hilarious!

Anyway, the PDF was in an email attachment, and I can't find it on the site. I'd post it, but I dunno if I should, because it was in an email to me, and I'd like to have permission. I can't see why Andy would care, because it really would help standardize and maybe demystify (at least, to someone who has never ordered a jacket by measurements) the way we talk about measuring the actual jacket, although the marked size is still going to vary by manufacturer and pattern/cut.

I think they're on vacation at this time, but I'll ask if I can post the link, or ask him if it's nested on the site somewhere. Sorry, guys!

This is pertinent to an order I have going with Kelso right now, too, and I can't remember if he sent me this link before or after I paid and was therefore, 'technically' a client. I'm probably overthinking this here but I don't want to just post something out of turn. It's very straightforward, though. I wish I'd seen something like it before I ordered my first Wested.