The LC Smithsonian fedora

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:48 pm

If the fedora at the Smithsonian was an actual hat from the Last Crusade then should not all the repos have some serious front taper? Like this _/
The one that was on display there had a lot of taper and from looking at the screen caps it seems the ones in the movie did too. I can't find too many from the film that didn't have it. Other than the ones sitting on his desk or in the grail tablet scene and those were just to look good sitting there. Everybody's repo hats are too straight in the front.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:01 pm

First you really can't go by a hat that is that old.

Thats the big problem with replicating the LC hat. The specs changed so much from scene to scene and the crease changed from scene to scene. It was the most inconsistent hat of all the movies. As a hat maker, you will drive yourself crazy trying to replicate every last one. I just shoot for a oval all look to one of the scenes that I like. The TOD hat is easier to nail down because that hat did change but not as much as the LC. I know people are going to go ape for this next statement but after breaking down these two hats ( TOD & LC ) I started to like the Temple hat better then the LC.

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:21 pm

Just so everyone knows what I am talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNGuvHXgvwA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This was from 1989 so the hat isn't too old yet. He even puts it on and you can see how it looks like the film (in most scenes)
Of course there is going to be different hats in the films, some get wrecked or wet or different brim sizes or whatever. I just saw this clip and kind of got mind blown.

I am going to guess and say that you liked the end of the motorcycle chase John. I would have to agree.

Eundercoffler · Post by **Eundercoffler** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:52 pm

I don't know, it doesn't look to me like the front tapers back that much. I think the issue here is that he typically wears it tipped back on his head because the front brim comes down so far that it looks like it is tapered more than it is. If you look at the band when he puts it on, you see how angled it is.
E

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:15 pm

Loved the video and I see EXACTLY what you're talking about. Sort of a profiled front taper. That hat in the video looked just like the LC lid when he put it on.

Is there a profile pic from the movie with it not tapered?

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:39 pm

I remember seeing those in person as a kid. Life changing! My heroes gear RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!

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BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:43 pm

from that clip, its looked like it tappered. After he puts it on, the back crease looks more like a young Indy hat from the TV show.

Nevada Jones · Post by **Nevada Jones** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:49 pm

Thanks for sharing that link, I'd never seen that one before

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:09 pm

From what I can tell the only hats in the film that have the straight front are as follows.

The hat on Indy's desk
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... e15e93.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In his dad's house
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 9547ac.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 8f9972.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one of the hats by the tablet
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 1b1f77.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The talk at the end of the motorcycle chase. The most obvious.
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 9dd90c.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... e6f988.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

when he is tied up in the castle
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... c4672a.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The rest are sloped.
the boat
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... b6431f.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Outside his office in the parking lot
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 69d107.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one of the hats on by the tablet
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... c06c5e.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Venice Pier
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 4f1c36.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

etc etc
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... ecff3c.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... d391fa.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... a4f94c.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 3af831.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... fb90f5.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

from the Smithsonian video
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 2af692.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... a90fb2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

do if you want to capture a scene then I guess you should try and get the front taper.
I dunno how. I guess dip the top part of the crown in hot water so it shrinks?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:37 pm

That's the thing. The specs on that changed more then any other of the movies.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:58 pm

erikgunnlugson wrote:From what I can tell the only hats in the film that have the straight front are as follows.

The talk at the end of the motorcycle chase. The most obvious.
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 9dd90c.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... e6f988.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The most asked style from all our LC orders.

Cheers.-

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:09 pm

Well just start with the motorcycle scene (my fav aswell) and then let it shrink over time if you want the other ones.

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 9af4d1.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:13 pm

That had to be one of the hats and jackets. They do not look like they were used much, and he kept one of the main Hero jackets, did he not?

micsteam · Post by **micsteam** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:44 pm

Wow !!! I can't beleive all the whoopla that has come out of my videos I posted to Youtube earlier this month !!! I wish I had more material to share but that was everything. I rememeber taping the Smithsonian induction from Entertainment Tonight back then, you guys need to know ( BendingOak is correct about the discrepancies between scenes) they prob. made 30-40 fedoras between stunt people, stand ins, and Harrison himself and that fedora wasn't the best of them all but one Lucasfilm decided to part with. Unfortunately the felt that Herbert Johnson (and I'm sure there were a few Stetson's in there as well, Stetson wanted to claim they made hats for both TOD and LC) was using at the time really couldn't hold shape (turn, bash, crease, what have you) well. Truly, and I'm not trying to offend any lovers of the LC fedora, but the LC fedora was the poorest of the bunch it's a fact not an opinion. There are certain shots, we all have our favorites ( there are a few I love as well), that the fedora looked perfect but truly the very hat that looked great in that scene lost it's shape the very next scene or the very next day for that matter.

Briscott · Post by **Briscott** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:45 pm

micsteam wrote:... Truly, and I'm not trying to offend any lovers of the LC fedora, but the LC fedora was the poorest of the bunch it's a fact not an opinion.....

I really love the LC fedora, and yes I feel offended!

. No, not really, but if it's a fact how can you tell? Who said so?

I don't think there were more than 6-8 hero fedoras for Mr Ford in LC. Although they really are different (comparison Venice to final scenes). But you can also see that e.g. the fedora in the motorbike chase is the same as in the finals scenes, you can tell from the bow work. The Bash has just changed.

And I really like the Smithsonian fedora. Too me it doesn't seem much tapered. The back seems to be a bit too highin the video, that's all.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:08 pm

if you lower the back crease then that hat will taper.

Briscott · Post by **Briscott** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:36 pm

No, if the back is too high the hat looks tapered. If you lower the back it will become more straight.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:09 pm

Briscott wrote:No, if the back is too high the hat looks tapered. If you lower the back it will become more straight.

nope doesn't work that way. you are going to draw more felt in and that will taper the hat.

Briscott · Post by **Briscott** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:13 pm

Sure it does. I'll post some pics tomorrow to show you. The more you lower front or back the more the felt will "come out"

Briscott · Post by **Briscott** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:01 am

You can easily see on this picture that the back of the Smithsonian fedora is higher than the front:

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b58 ... 2af692.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks tapered, but it just the natural dome of a fedora. When you lower the back, it will become straight. Here is what I mean:

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:30 am

But not viewed from the front?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:07 am

Here's a screen-used LC fedora:

Difficult to see much crown taper from this angle, but I'm amazed at how narrow the side brim looks!

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:17 pm

Isnt all this misshaping partly due to decades of poor storage? Probably on a shelf in a humid storage room somewhere sitting on the brim? And the lighting changes the look too.

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BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:57 pm

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:26 pm

The hat from the video is right after the movie was done filming. The one if the hat and whip is after sitting for a couple decades i think. It isnt even on display anymore but im not sure . Probably in a wooden box in a huge warehouse with other old relics. Kind of ironic if you think about it

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ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:51 pm

erikgunnlugson wrote:The hat from the video is right after the movie was done filming. The one if the hat and whip is after sitting for a couple decades i think. It isnt even on display anymore but im not sure . Probably in a wooden box in a huge warehouse with other old relics. Kind of ironic if you think about it

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I wonder if the museum has "top men" working on it or guarding it?

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Briscott · Post by **Briscott** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:59 am

BendingOak wrote:But not viewed from the front?

I was referring to your post:

BendingOak wrote:from that clip, its looked like it tappered. After he puts it on, the back crease looks more like a young Indy hat from the TV show.

That's why I posted the pics above. I could only find one "front shot", and I don't think it looks much tapered there (see especially left side):

Maybe today it is. Someone should reblock it then

When you lower the back crease the sides will come in more, but not much.

Regarding the number of hero hats in LC, here is a pic of some bows, which could all be the same I think. It has very distinctive creases:

micsteam · Post by **micsteam** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:10 am

I might have been a little generous with the amount of hats made for LC but there were at least 6-10 made for Ford directly not including stand ins and stunt men.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:48 am

If you lower the back to where it should be it will tapper a already tapper hat.

As for the bow. They are all slightly different and that's how The factory for HJ was puting them together. They didn't seem to really care about making a neat bow, they just seem to just jam the bow into the knot.

Briscott · Post by **Briscott** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:32 am

BendingOak wrote:If you lower the back to where it should be it will tapper a already tapper hat.

As for the bow. They are all slightly different and that's how The factory for HJ was puting them together. They didn't seem to really care about making a neat bow, they just seem to just jam the bow into the know.

Yes, the sides a bit, not the back itself, but to me the hat in the video does not seem to be much tapered, the back is just too high.

When you make a bow such creases do not emerge, no matter how badly a bow has been made. this bow is very specific and in the pics too similar to be not the same bow (that's how I see it).

There are slight differences, but think about how many different bashes the hat has from scene to scene and how many hands might have been on it. Well, you could be right, maybe me, we'll never know.

ChrisMD · Post by **ChrisMD** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:36 am

I would love it if the archived Indy props and gear traveled around the country to different museums. If it was at the Smithsonian that would make me wanna go visit home more. No longer an hour drive, but I still love the Smithsonian's.

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Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:28 am

Alright, I cleaned out this thread of all the personal attacks and nonsense. Let's all remember to play nice.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:19 pm

Is there ar timeline/location for shooting for LC? Just wondering if you could maybe follow a hat through location and whatnot to see how it shrinks up.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:24 pm

erikgunnlugson wrote:Is there ar timeline/location for shooting for LC? Just wondering if you could maybe follow a hat through location and whatnot to see how it shrinks up.

I'm not sure you are going to find anything like that.

Post by **Mike** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:33 pm

Unfortunately there's no in-depth (public) accounting for LC. Raiders had a making of book, but the latest making of book for the Indy films watered down the later films. Even documentaries were watered down and not about production for LC. Still wish they would've done individual books like they did for Star Wars.

erikgunnlugson · Post by **erikgunnlugson** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:51 pm

Quick google search led me to this:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Indiana- ... 3801937187" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice behind the scene pics anyways if nothing else

micsteam · Post by **micsteam** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:18 am

I don't know if this will help but have you guys seen the Japanese making of Last Crusade ?? There might be more stuff, screen shots that may be of help. You should be able to look it up on Youtube, I have a copy but it's to long for me to post on Youtube. I'll see today about putting together a link for you guys if you're interested.

Elwood12653 · Post by **Elwood12653** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:39 am

I noticed that in the video Harrison Ford seems to wear the same shirt he wears in LC in Barnett College

Screencapped · Post by **Screencapped** » Mon May 23, 2016 2:05 pm

Hello everyone!
I'm reviving this thread because, believe it or not I'm very close to completing my research/quest to ID the existing hats worn by HF in LC to the particular shots and scenes he wore them in. After seeing recent pictures of the Smithsonian hat provided by a fellow COW member, I now believe it's the hat worn during the beginning and end of the motorcycle chase (not the argument),the tank chase, and some famous promo shots by Terry O'neil. There are at least three other hats from LC that have been on exhibit in various places over the years that I've also identified and matched to particular scenes through exhaustive research over the last couple months. If you're interested in discussing this subject with me feel free to email me at : brianlalonde2003@yahoo.com
I'm posting today mainly to ask for help from you guys. To complete my study, I need some photos, high resolution if possible, of the Chicago exhibit hat. I'm really interested in the bow work in particular.
Anyone who's tackled this subject before and who'd like to assist me in my quest to finally ID these fedoras are welcome! I will publish my final results here soon and leave it open to peer review from my fellow scientists/gear heads.

Screencapped · Post by **Screencapped** » Mon May 23, 2016 2:07 pm

whipwarrior wrote:Here's a screen-used LC fedora:

Difficult to see much crown taper from this angle, but I'm amazed at how narrow the side brim looks!

I'm positive this hat was worn in the grail temple scene as well as a couple other parts.