accurate?

baddates1 · Post by **baddates1** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:24 am

John Penman, I have seen photos of your Indy hats and this is specifically raiders hat question. In the front brim of your Indy hats it much of the time has a upwards swoop after it comes down in a hump. How many scenes in raiders does it do that? I mean I had seen a photo or two in raiders with that but mainly I have seen raiders hats without the swoop. Is that just a small thing in a few scenes?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:06 am

I'm not sure I understand what your talking about. Can you post a pic or two?

baddates1 · Post by **baddates1** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:40 pm

I mean when you make your hats at the bottom of the front brim there is an upwards swoop that takes place.

arklover · Post by **arklover** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:42 pm

not sure what you're talking about either...post some pics. I went back and looked at the post the pennman hats but really didnt see anything in the front brim that has a upward swoop...

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:31 pm

I'm still not sure what you are asking, the only thing that comes to mind is.........

That most think that a brim is flat and then shaped by hand. This is wrong. The brim gets blocked and the shape of the brim is made by shrinking the felt ( brim ) to the shape of a flange just like a block for the crown. The brim is curled upwards all the around. When the hat is complete, then the front of the brim is snapped downward. Hence the term "snap brim."

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:26 pm

I think I (somewhat) understand what he is talking about. I some of the shots from "Raiders" Indy's brim does have a pronounced 'swoop' to it. I would think this is largely due to; 1) the turn in the hat, and; 2) just general distressing and 'how it was thrown on at the time of the shots. Other then this -- I'm blank. W>

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:21 am

I think what he's asking about is the upward curl on the sides. In a lot of the screenshots the brim of the hat looks flattened, especially on the bow (left) side, whereas because the hat is turned, the brim looked wider on the non-bow (right) side, and sometimes turned upwards. In some of the photos John has of his Raiders hat, the brim on the bow side is curled up.

Assuming that's the question being asked, I think the answer is the appearance of the brim of the hat depends more on what's just happened to it than how it's made. As John says, it's a flanged brim. If you snap the front down the rest is curled up. If you turn the front and back down, the sides flatten. If its a long way away from its last reblock and doesn't have a ton of stiffener in it, it can change depending on whether you put it on right or left handed.

It was 35 years ago and while the hat was a part of the costume, the movie wasn't about the hat. (Other than the fact it never came off.) The guy just wore it.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:33 am

I just had to. None of us are on the same page.

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:46 am

We're all on page 1. Does that count?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:33 pm

Ridgerunner58 wrote:We're all on page 1. Does that count?

baddates1 · Post by **baddates1** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:14 am

Here you go John, page 13 post "a very special story with a very special hat" something like that. Now pay attention to the front brim, see how it swoops back up? Is that accurate to Indy hats especially raiders?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:01 am

can you send me to where you are speaking?

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:12 am

Assuming I understand correctly. (Sometimes a HUGE assumption, but often not) he is looking at the third through fifth photos down in the first post in this thread. http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47486" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The photos show the snapped down front brim exhibiting a slight upward turn as a result of the way the brim is flanged.

If that is correct my answer would be - "it happens. It will disappear the longer the hat is worn with the brim snapped down."

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:17 am

I believe that is exactly what he is talking about.
Great call, Ridgerunner.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:13 am

Ridgerunner58 wrote:Assuming I understand correctly. (Sometimes a HUGE assumption, but often not) he is looking at the third through fifth photos down in the first post in this thread. http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47486" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The photos show the snapped down front brim exhibiting a slight upward turn as a result of the way the brim is flanged.

If that is correct my answer would be - "it happens. It will disappear the longer the hat is worn with the brim snapped down."

OK! I get it now...I've noticed this with various fedora's I've purchased and also with my last 'LC' from John. I really never thought all that much about it, as it just seems to be the result of the 'flanging, etc.' and thus natural. This being said, I would assume (and this can be dangerous) that pretty much all hats do this. I've even noticed this (due to re-thinking and reviewing my hats) that even some of my wool tweed 'walking hats,'etc.' do this too! I have to admit, I was not understanding the question originally posed here and thinking about the over all 'swoop' of the 'Raiders' hat from the 'turn' from one side to the other -- looking straight on and not referencing the tip of the front portion of the brim. Thanks for clearing this up

! W>

micsteam · Post by **micsteam** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:16 pm

Yeah, I'm trying here to understand also but let me give you a scene that best shows the Raiders fedora as made by Herbert Johnson for the movie in it's basic form, well almost I'm thinking about it it's actually the making of Raiders that's on the Blu-Ray set (if you don't have this set you are not a die hard Indy fan) it's where Harrison Ford is getting ready to be deployed into the Well of Souls, Ford is falling asleep and it's a shot from the left side of his head. This is the best example of the transition from snap down brim (front) up along the side to upward turn of the back, this is how they received the hats back then and then they ( Nadoolman, costuming) modified/weathered/what have you between scenes.

NOTE: John Penman is the hat maker here and he does this for a living and is excellent in his craft (I beleive personally that he makes the best fedoras around, my opinion). Myself ( I have a Steve Delk AB Raiders..love it) on the other hand, I wanted this fedora since I was 8 years old and I was out of the Indy thing since 1989 with LC but after watching playing Xbox's Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb in 2003 I had a renewed passion for Indiana Jones and have been in the hunt ever since (bonus a new Indiana Jones movie we can argue all day if it is legit or not). I am what you might call " anal retentive " because when I want something I want it to be " it" so I am not professing to be an expert but I do know my history and I've owned several hats based on the Raiders fedora and I am happy to share with others. That being said, let's discuss, I'd like to help on this if I can.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:57 pm

micsteam wrote:Yeah, I'm trying here to understand also but let me give you a scene that best shows the Raiders fedora as made by Herbert Johnson for the movie in it's basic form, well almost I'm thinking about it it's actually the making of Raiders that's on the Blu-Ray set (if you don't have this set you are not a die hard Indy fan) it's where Harrison Ford is getting ready to be deployed into the Well of Souls, Ford is falling asleep and it's a shot from the left side of his head. This is the best example of the transition from snap down brim (front) up along the side to upward turn of the back, this is how they received the hats back then and then they ( Nadoolman, costuming) modified/weathered/what have you between scenes.

NOTE: John Penman is the hat maker here and he does this for a living and is excellent in his craft (I beleive personally that he makes the best fedoras around, my opinion). Myself ( I have a Steve Delk AB Raiders..love it) on the other hand, I wanted this fedora since I was 8 years old and I was out of the Indy thing since 1989 with LC but after watching playing Xbox's Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb in 2003 I had a renewed passion for Indiana Jones and have been in the hunt ever since (bonus a new Indiana Jones movie we can argue all day if it is legit or not). I am what you might call " anal retentive " because when I want something I want it to be " it" so I am not professing to be an expert but I do know my history and I've owned several hats based on the Raiders fedora and I am happy to share with others. That being said, let's discuss, I'd like to help on this if I can.

I share your opinion! W>

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