is there a product to help get that swoop in my lid?

[Doeindy]

Hi Raiders.

A couple of days ago I was playing with my Fedora and trying to understand the science of the lid I have. I have been struggling with getting that swoop at the front. I found that if I stick my finger straight up between my forehead and the sweatband I get that swoop at the front.

Now what I would like to know is; is there an actual proper way I can do this with a product for fedora hats that help bend the brim down at the front?

I would love to know.

Please post here.

Paulio.

[jnicktem]

What kind of hat and felt is it?

[Ridgerunner58]

You can steam, dampen, roll, bend, massage and form the brim all you want. My experience is the appearance is a product of time, felt quality and how the thing is flanged. (Not necessarily in that order.)

[Doeindy]

It's a good shape but made of cheap felt to be honest. I just wondered if there was a product or secret or something. I see all these great Feds on here with a great swoop and I wonder how do you do it.

Cheers guys
Paulio.

[TenuredProfessor]

It all starts with the 'turn' and it must the dimensional cut brim as well. I've gotten my hats to do this by putting it on with the bow over my left ear, then holding the brim and turning it until the crease is center to your face. The knot on the bow should now be about a half inch in front of your left ear. Also, use your thumb to push up at the apex of the swoop, and push down on the brim with your forefinger. It just takes a bit of working and turning. Granted, all hats are different and take on different characteristics. Two of my Penman Raiders hats are both rabbit, but both have slightly different nuances. The hat will change a little bit over time from handling, weather, sweat, being sat on, whatever. I know of no product that will create the swoop though.

[Doeindy]

Your lid looks great Tenured. Thank you for the advice; I am going to take your advice and work that brim. Hopefully I will get it right.

Many thank again.

Paulio.

[backstagejack]

I've also noticed it helps to have a long oval shaped head, such as Ford has. If your head is more round, etc it's harder to obtain. But the turn tends to be a good way to accomplish it.

[WConly]

I've also noticed it helps to have a long oval shaped head, such as Ford has. If your head is more round, etc it's harder to obtain.

That can be remedied...

! This is almost as bad, as telling him to just keep his finger stuck inside the hat (much less, cut it off -- and put it in there) ! Quite amusing, however ! I think our friend needs to look at some of the other solutions offered ! Then...again .....naw, not going there ! W>

[BendingOak]

Hi Raiders.

A couple of days ago I was playing with my Fedora and trying to understand the science of the lid I have. I have been struggling with getting that swoop at the front. I found that if I stick my finger straight up between my forehead and the sweatband I get that swoop at the front.

Now what I would like to know is; is there an actual proper way I can do this with a product for fedora hats that help bend the brim down at the front?

I would love to know.

Please post here.

Paulio.

Can you post a couple of photos? I'm not sure if your asking about the swoop of the raiders turn or a fedoras snap down?

[Texan Scott]

Its called, Swoopcrete. It is rhino tough, not just bulldog by the way.

[Doeindy]

Hi pals.

On my day off of work tomorrow, I am going to try and get some images to show you what I mean.

Keep up the Crusade

Paulio.

[Indiana Bugs]

It's nice having an LO head in a RO hat. The brim distorts so nicely.

[gi_canuck]

I agree with the previous posts about the Turn and the head shape. I think getting your hat made with the right block is the key. I have a round oval head which usually makes any long-oval or regular oval hats' brims droop down. I have a round-oval Penman hat that was made for me with the turn and that one swoops like there's no tomorrow. At the time, John didn't really have a round-oval block, so he had to improvise (Some kind of round-oval helper block or something... I forget the terminology. It wasn't a full round-oval block, but some kind of partial block you put inside of the hat after the hat was already blocked) , but the result was excellent!!

[Nevada Jones]

I've also noticed it helps to have a long oval shaped head, such as Ford has. If your head is more round, etc it's harder to obtain.

That can be remedied...

Interesting! I have a long oval head and always thought I was the rare exception (aka freak). I wasn't aware that Ford has one too. Yay!

[baddates1]

Sounds to me that you have a regular oval(I may have missed it. I usually get the basics at the top than I skip a bunch of stuff and scroll to the bottom)but correct me if I am wrong if it isn't that shape. Do you mean getting the downward hump in the front? You could buy another bigger hat from say Penman's and have them squish the sides in the like the Raiders SoC. But if you want to stick with your hat you have now, I have tried this with my Federation Deluxe, but it didn't work that well. You can fold a bunch of pieces of paper and stick them in the sweatband in the front. What hat is it? Dorfman Pacific? You said a cheap felt so I just figured it might be that.

Regards from an endangered gentleman: baddates1

[jlhampton]

baddates1 beat me to it. His suggestion was right on with what I did with both my AB and my Penman. I just took a paper towel, tore it about the length of my finger and folded it until I got almost the thickness I wanted. Then tore a strip,say, 1 inch in width and wrapped that around the middle of the first strip so that the total thickness was about 3/8 inch and it would taper out on the ends. I placed that in between the sweat and got the same effect as placing the finger in between your head and the hat. It added the shape I wanted and made the fit just a bit better. For my AB(which is a S.O.C. style) I did the same in the back of the sweat band, but not as thick. It works great and you can't even tell it's there.

jlhampton

[whipwarrior]

Is there a product to help get that swoop in my lid?

Yeah, it's called steam.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

[baddates1]

baddates1 beat me to it. His suggestion was right on with what I did with both my AB and my Penman. I just took a paper towel, tore it about the length of my finger and folded it until I got almost the thickness I wanted. Then tore a strip,say, 1 inch in width and wrapped that around the middle of the first strip so that the total thickness was about 3/8 inch and it would taper out on the ends. I placed that in between the sweat and got the same effect as placing the finger in between your head and the hat. It added the shape I wanted and made the fit just a bit better. For my AB(which is a S.O.C. style) I did the same in the back of the sweat band, but not as thick. It works great and you can't even tell it's there.

jlhampton

Did you get the down hump in the front of the hat? and did it give the raiders turn once given it after shaped and turned?

[BendingOak]

All this advise is all good but everyone is assuming we understand completely what is going on. I would first like a pic before I can help?????

[Gorak]

Well, it's not rocket science. He just cant get the swoop. Coming from a wide head, I know exactly where your coming from. I have had to turn my Indy hats completely sideways to get the swoop but that always messes with the block profile. I have never seen anything for that but, the hat will eventually conform to your training so, advice from a guy that has a wide head and never an automatic swoop?
Outside of getting a custom hat made by someone who cares about you enough to work it out personally with you (Penman, Steele&Jones, etc), you can try doing what was suggested and, alittle at a time, add strips of tissue or felt or hat pads in different folds in front and, experiment with doing the back too, until you get the desired look. Check your side profile in the mirror or in pics to make sure you dont bulk it out so much that the hat looks too big on you from the sides.
Then, when it looks like you want, LIGHTLY spray it with tap water all over even under the brim. (If its a lesser expensive hat, you may get water spots in the felt but, hey, its an Indy hat.....its suppose to look like its been used in the field) then take it off and set it on a hat stand or anything that can resemble your head....even a rolled up towel will do. Reshape by hand making sure it looks like what you want. I always overdo it, knowing my head is going to stretch it ear to ear so if it is exaggerated, it will tame up as it mold to your head. Leave it overnight and by morning, you should have a good facsimile of what a little more wearing and training will make your hat look like. And soon enough, if you bond with your hat, you will just know when its time to remove the padding. I have a hat that is several years old that still has the padding. I just forgot to remove and it is very comfortably fine now that I dont even worry about it.
Now there is nothing professional about this....just telling you whats worked for me more than once. If I were you, I would work with this hat while I saved up for one from our professional hat makers......there is NOTHING like a custom hat made just specifically for you!

[Ridgerunner58]

If by "swoop' you mean the distinctive roll the brim has on the non-bow side that's a result of the dimensional brim being turned to the left so the longest dimension is over the wearer's left eye instead of his or her nose and the crown then being creased off center.
Trying to get that look from an ordinary hat is like trying to make a Honda look exactly like a Harley.
I suppose even a non-dimensional brim would warp if you turned the hat, but the long front dimension exaggerates it and makes it more noticeable.
Before I understood how the hat was made and styled I was pretty good a replicating that asymmetrical look with a regular hat and some steam, but found that it never stayed that way over time.
So the only "product" I can think of is a new hat with the right brim dimensions and flange from someone like Steve Delk, John Penman, David Garrison, or even Northwest.

[BendingOak]

Gorak, it sounds like you are a round oval. If I had your hat in hand I could fix that easy with a band block. I wouldn't charge for doing it because it really only takes a few moments. The reason I ask for a photo or two is because we are assuming we know exactly what he is talking about. It may not be that simple as a swoop from the turn. He could be talking about the rake? The snap down? Or the swoop from the turn? Before I would give advise I wanto know I'm on the same page.

[Gorak]

rereading some other posts, I see that we kinda need a COW dictionary so we have collective term for some names that we ourselves just kinda adapted!
My ,but we are a crazy bunch here!

[Michaelson]

Interesting! I have a long oval head and always thought I was the rare exception (aka freak). I wasn't aware that Ford has one too. Yay!

Believe me, you're NOT the Lone Ranger here. A LOT of us have to have long oval blocks used for our hats, me included.

Regards! Michaelson

[BendingOak]

It's not a long oval block used, it's a long oval band block to change the shape of that first 1 1/2 inches where the sweatband sits. If you guys wanted I could make up a list of terms with either pics or video?

[Michaelson]

Technical info is ALWAYS welcome, John! It could then be stickied at the top in the tutorials.

Regards! M

[BendingOak]

give me a couple of weeks to come up with something nice.

[Michaelson]

[jlhampton]

baddates1 beat me to it. His suggestion was right on with what I did with both my AB and my Penman. I just took a paper towel, tore it about the length of my finger and folded it until I got almost the thickness I wanted. Then tore a strip,say, 1 inch in width and wrapped that around the middle of the first strip so that the total thickness was about 3/8 inch and it would taper out on the ends. I placed that in between the sweat and got the same effect as placing the finger in between your head and the hat. It added the shape I wanted and made the fit just a bit better. For my AB(which is a S.O.C. style) I did the same in the back of the sweat band, but not as thick. It works great and you can't even tell it's there.

jlhampton

Did you get the down hump in the front of the hat? and did it give the raiders turn once given it after shaped and turned?

Yes. As the crown was slightly pushed forward from the new displacement of space, the front of the brim was slightly forced downward and the effect was more pronounced as the Raiders turn was already built into the hat. Hope this helped.

jlhampton

[baddates1]

Thank you I tried it the day I read your post. Last time I didn't use enough paper.

Regards from am extraordinary gentleman: baddates1