Finalizing Wested order research... UPDATE: order RECEIVED!!

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:52 am

donovan wrote:i sincerely wish you all the best in your jacket quest.i dont wish to sound to pessimistic but i cant help feeling your setting your self up for disappointment.sending a long spec sheet in to wested is something of a gamble ,how are you going to feel if one of your specs/requests is omitted ? peter has in the past stated he is not up for" long laundry lists".you may be one of the lucky ones and get all you ask-order the hero and just wear the thing and it will become 'your' jacket. just my opinion and good luck with whatever you go for.

Thanks for the input - I honestly have no interest in sending in a long laundry list of specs.

What I am asking for help with from the people here that know for sure, that have gone through the process with Wested is this:

Out of the details I noted in my original post in this thread, what of those elements are ALREADY PART OF the existing 'Custom ROLA' and 'Hero' patterns? I don't want to bore Peter with requests for things I'd get anyway without asking. Just like Holt knowing the Hero has gussets. How can I know that, since Wested doesn't mention that?

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:59 am

Texan Scott wrote:Jackets have come far and away from the Disney/Cooper jackets of old. Also, to expect one of the new repro. liners to last intact, much less 70 years, is setting yourself up. These jackets are not A-2's that were once produced with WWII era quality, materials and hardware, nor hides. Instead, most realize that if the jacket liner wears out, you simply send it back to have it relined, or some prefer to buy another.

In details, the Hero jacket is a great improvement over the early 90's era iteration. As to the lining, it depends on how you use the jacket. Yet, goatskin is still goatskin, cow the same. Eventually, take the plunge and order the Hero, or get the toughest made of them all, the G&B Exp. in goatskin. They guarantee their stuff for life, to the original owner.

I honestly don't expect the liner to last 70 years - that wasn't my claim, that was somebody else's.

But I would like to have it last as long as possible.

It seems like my wanting facings in the thing is just irritating the purists, so maybe this is the extent of the advice I can glean from here.

I appreciate everybody's help

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:02 pm

If Holt or someone can point me towards a list and description of the details from past threads here that have already become standard elements of the Custom ROLA and Hero patterns, that'd be very helpful.

If something like that doesn't exist, I'll muddle through.

Thank you again for everybody's time and thoughts.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:17 pm

The Hero jacket is as close to the film jacket as Peter and his Co. has ever produced, down to the pattern eccentricities. Did I mention the Hero thread? My experience with spec-ing is that you will get some details but not all, as Tibor eluded to. Generally that has been the case with most all of us. Talk to Peter about bullet proof liners and the like, and he would undoubtedly be of great service.

Post by **Holt** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:17 pm

my friend. get the Hero jacket. you'll be very happy with it

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:53 am

The lining on my jacket stays very close to the outer shell and never gets close enough to the zipper for it to snag. The cotton doesn't blouse up like the satin does.

Plus, facings just simply would not work with the way the shoulder/chest area is made on the Hero. With facings, the front of the collar would be up around your chin.

Post by **Holt** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:37 am

I was about to reply to your pm's but I thought I could do it here instead just to keep everything in one thread.

Like I mentioned earlier. Your best bet is to call peter up or send him an email. However, from what I know since I have the hero....with the hero you will be getting what the raiders jacket was suppose to be. a ''costume'' jacket made to look good on the actor.

You will be getting narrow sleeves, gussets, narrow chest, wide torso, of the shoulder feature, long straps, wide collar, silver zipp, no facings, 100% cotton lining.

IMO the gussets really doesn't do anything. on the G&B I have heard that it does since it has the ''Jagger lips'' gussets. a single gusset really doesn't do anything from my experience...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:34 am

That's the thing, as M has stated many times. The G&B is engineered to function internally as well as externally. The liner is a mirror image of its internal structure and the exterior pleats. The interior includes 3 bands of elastic to help keep the pleats from flaring. Gussets are functional. No one else does that.

Essentially, the issue with jacket ride up is addressed in the diameter of the armholes, and then (functional) gussets second. If you have a smaller diameter armhole and fitting more closely to the arms (as in the Hero and RoLA jackets), then you have more arm mobility and FOM than if you have the larger diameter armholes as in the LC jacket.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:35 pm

LZeitgeist wrote:
CM wrote:You keep mentioning the facings. Just remember the A2 jacket, probably the most famous leather jacket of them all does not have facings. The Indy jacket which borrows many items from the A2 - pockets, storm flap, etc, also went with no facings. A2's from 70 years ago are still around with no lining zipper problems.
That's a good point, but also a bold statement - no problems in 70 years? None?

I bought my Disney/Cooper jacket in October 1992. The lining lasted about 10 years before it started shredding. Another 2-3 years and it's barely 'lining' anything. And the Disney/Cooper jacket HAS leather facings. Given your claim, I should still have another 50 years with no problems. But I know otherwise from first-hand knowledge, in the EXACT environment that the Wested I order will have to endure for the next couple decades or more.

The outside, I want screen accurate. The inside I want structurally sound and long-lasting.

No - you're jumping to conclusions - what I said that there are jackets that have lasted 70 years without issues pertaining to the zip and the lining. My point that you seem not to follow is that having no facings is not Indy specific and that this arrangement does not wear out faster than those jackets with facings. There are hundreds, thousands perhaps of surviving A2's and although they sometimes show much wear and tear, I've never seen wear to the lining because of a lack of facings.

Lining is not usually strong stuff - especially the cotton Wested uses. It will typically wear out around the collar, belt area and sleeves first. Why worry about the facing when it is the flimsy cotton that is the problem? The G&B lining, which is a resilient breathable poly twill, is much harder wearing. I personally prefer the look of facings but then I'm not interested in supposed screen accuracy very much. Whatever happened to your Disney jacket is not germane to my point which is (one more time) that no facings will not compromise the jacket's strength.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:31 pm

OK, after much compilation of years of information here and elsewhere, testing the various leather samples I received from Gemma and weighing options of my own desire, here is what I ordered at midnight last night!

'Raiders' Jacket

Jacket Size: 44

Sleeve Length: 26.5

Back Length: 26

Skin Type: Goatskin

Lining Type: Cotton Body / Satin Sleeves (Recommended)

Side Straps: Buckle + X-Box Stitch (Tri-Glide)

Extra Inside Pocket: Yes (plus 5 pounds)

Special Requests? (May incur extra charge) - WESTED (not LC) tag - 5-gauge Antique Brass zipper with small pull - stop zipper 1" above bottom hem - hidden snap at bottom of storm flap - right hand (US-style) zipper - Antique Brass Tri-Glide side buckles - inside name tag with 'Patrick W. Heinske' on it(?)

Gussets: Yes (plus 5 pounds)

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:37 pm

I also sent an e-mail to Gemma letting her know my actual chest measurement is 43", so I'd like the actual chest measurement of the jacket to fit that rather than end up being 46" or something - I'd read that many times peoples' first Westeds are a size too large so hopefully that will avoid that error.

I also asked for 'medium length' side straps so I hopefully won't get side straps that are WAY long like some of the ones here have appeared.

Crossing fingers for it all to turn out right the first time...

I haven't heard back from anyone since they are closed today, but hopefully on Monday or so I'll get confirmation of the extras and questions.

About how long have the turnaround times been lately? 60 days or so?

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:36 pm

Day 1 - got a confirmation e-mail from Gemma changing status to PROCESSING and letting me know the personalized nametag option is no longer available (I didn't think it was, but I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.)

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:47 am

Day 2 - time has not moved this slow for me in YEARS...

Just received an e-mail from Gemma to answer a question I had regarding the chest measurement/jacket size correlation and other details...

micsteam · Post by **micsteam** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:34 pm

Sorry LZeitgeist, I responded on another forum to your post about your Wested order. It seems you've done your homework so I think you'll be pleased with your jacket.
Good luck,
micsteam

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:47 am

Time will move slow for about 3-4 weeks then you will feel like it is Christmas morning.

It's cool when you get just what you wanted.

I'd recommend a few videos in the interim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC67vNY9Rcg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cPxKq-gMDo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V1BIRdU9is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:28 am

Day 9 - e-mail conversation with Gemma a few days ago to confirm the details and send a small additional payment to cover the cost of those extra details.

Time marches on...

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:32 am

Texan Scott wrote:Time will move slow for about 3-4 weeks then you will feel like it is Christmas morning.

It's cool when you get just what you wanted.

I'd recommend a few videos in the interim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC67vNY9Rcg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cPxKq-gMDo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V1BIRdU9is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FILLIN' THE FLOYD VOID!

Awesomeness.

4505marcel · Post by **4505marcel** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:31 pm

I had an email today to say mines in the post yay. I just opted for a straight off the shelf hero

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:17 pm

Day 12 - exchanged e-mails with Gemma to confirm strap length and jacket style, and she gave an estimated completion date of 21 working days from now...

4505marcel wrote:I had an email today to say mines in the post yay. I just opted for a straight off the shelf hero

Cool! $\:D/$

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:20 pm

Day 15... was just thinking... not sure if that's 5 working days/week or 6, but either way, it's nice to have something to look forward to!

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:50 pm

Day 17... time moves slowly... good things come to those who wait.

I'm cautiously hopeful that it will fit me like a glove right out of the box, but I'm also prepared to discover that perhaps a size 44 jacket won't fit me as I believe it is supposed to, so I'm trying to temper my excitement... I will be patient and calm and find out when it arrives.

Sending up a prayer to guide Peter's hands and eyes in creating the jacket I've really wanted for quite some time...

4505marcel · Post by **4505marcel** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:02 pm

Got mine through, went for a 42 and I usually wear a 44 and its still quite loose. Glad I didn't go bigger, nice jacket though. Much thinner leather than my other wested

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Yikes, having it be too big is my main concern...

I ordered a jacket size 44, but I prefaced it in my notes to Gemma that my actual chest measurement was 43 inches, so if they needed to change that size in order to fit me as it should, they should please do so. I'm hopeful that providing complete and clear information leads to success.

They have been making jackets far longer than I've been ordering them, so...

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:15 am

Day 18 - I'd sent an e-mail to Gemma reiterating that if they needed to change the jacket size to something other than Size 44 in order to properly fit my 43 inch chest, I trusted them and their expertise to do what they needed to do, and this morning she replied and said that my jacket 'will be cut tomorrow', so here we go!

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:30 am

I wouldn't worry. I measure 43" and their 44 does quite nicely.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:05 am

Thanks - as mentioned, I'm cautiously hopeful.

Reading over the decade of information here and elsewhere, I'd seen mention of a few people that have said the jackets they received were large for them, but I feel I gave the best info I could, so now I need to let them do what they do best.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:46 am

Day 23... was idly poking around the Wested website a bit, wondering whether or not a leather collar stand was standard on the custom Raiders jacket, and I noticed a new item there under Product Categories: Gemma's getting married!

Peter wrote that she'll be getting married Oct. 4th in Cypress, so for two weeks he's 'the boss'.

Congrats, Gemma!

$\:D/$

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:42 am

Day 26... just received an e-mail from Wested updating my order to 'Dispatched' - for those who have ordered, does this mean that the jacket has been completed and SHIPPED already...?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:46 am

Means 'mailed'.

Regards! Michaelson

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:58 am

WOW! Yeah, I have to admit that I couldn't think of anything else it *might* mean, but this is two weeks ahead of when I'd thought it'd go out.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:11 pm

It means a special agent wearing a Skyfall jacket has been sent to hunt you down for annoying Gemma

... Actually, what Michaelson said...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:42 pm

LZeitgeist wrote:Day 23... was idly poking around the Wested website a bit, wondering whether or not a leather collar stand was standard on the custom Raiders jacket, and I noticed a new item there under Product Categories: Gemma's getting married!

I wonder what happens if you try to add a 'Gemma's getting married!' to the shopping basket? Will Wested mail out a Gemma clone?

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:26 pm

whipwarrior wrote:
LZeitgeist wrote:Day 23... was idly poking around the Wested website a bit, wondering whether or not a leather collar stand was standard on the custom Raiders jacket, and I noticed a new item there under Product Categories: Gemma's getting married!
I wonder what happens if you try to add a 'Gemma's getting married!' to the shopping basket? Will Wested mail out a Gemma clone?

Only 25 quid to ship her to you in the USA, I'm almost tempted to spend the money to see what happens.....

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:47 pm

"What can I get for you today, sir?"
"I'd like one of you to go, babe."

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:24 pm

Day 28... I know the jacket's on its way to me, but I'm not sure if it will show up Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday... the only concerns I have that are tempering my excitement are whether or not the chest sizing will fit me properly and if the requested details have been satisfactorily met. I'm cautiously hopeful on both.

Crossing fingers...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:35 pm

Having listed your exact specs I would be surprised if it didn't fit you. I have a pre-Hero RoLA jacket that was not sold off as the rest, and love it. It is nearly the most comfortable Wested I have owned. During this past round of orders, I tweaked both the Hero and the LC to get a better fit, and I am fine with that. I have a very SA jacket if I need one, but on the Hero, I like a jacket that does not fall too far off the shoulders or does not feel as though it will slide off your back. On the LC, it is a great pattern and fit, but you have the case of the large arm holes that cause the jacket to ride up. Going with more of a Raiders type arm diameter and sleeve config. allows you more freedom of movement. I also added larger pockets to the LC, just a way to get the best of both worlds. Pretty sure as I get older, I won't be so concerned as to a super-SA type jacket, so long as it fits good. Again, personal preference thing...did I say...its subjective. I dunno...let me check my specs....

Post pics when you get it.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:21 am

Day 29... IT'S HERE!!! $\:D/$

To quote Belloq: "IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!!"

Wested did a GREAT job - all details were exactly as requested!

Pics to come!

EDIT: removed linked photo so as to not exceed six photos listed in this thread

(really liked the Belloq meme I found, but rules are rules)

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:34 am

First pics...

New style of tag for 2013?

The goat is soft and feels incredible - only ever-so-slightly stiff, just enough to feel like a brand-new jacket. It's got a bit of gloss to it, but not as much as I thought it might have had.

THANK YOU, PETER BOTWRIGHT!

EDIT: corrected photo sizes

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:54 pm

That looks great! How's the fit?

Charybdis · Post by **Charybdis** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:10 pm

A thing of beauty it is! I definitely want a Wested but I have a bit of saving before I can get to it...perhaps next year!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:20 pm

US side zippers always make me twitch

Glad you like it, now get wearin' it!

moses · Post by **moses** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:41 pm

Is that dark brown or authentic brown goatskin?

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:42 pm

Seems like that jacket would fit me too,only lambskin..dark that is.

Beautiful piece of leather there.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:47 pm

moses wrote:Is that dark brown or authentic brown goatskin?

The option that comes up on the order page states 'New Goatskin'. It doesn't offer a color option; however, it is a rather dark brown. Not so much as to be mistaken for black, definitely brown, but I have to admit it reminds me of the dark brown in the scenes in the beginning of 'Raiders', before he heads into the Chachapoyan temple. (More of a gut feeling - need to rewatch it to be sure.)

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:01 pm

Tibor wrote:That looks great! How's the fit?

The fit is great - when I first put it on, it felt slightly large, but I tightened the side straps about an inch on each side, maybe an inch and a quarter, and everything fell into place around my body.

The sleeves are a slightly larger diameter than I'd think they would be, but then this is the 'Raiders' cut with a bit of a looser fit rather than the 'Hero' with the slimmer, tapered sleeves, so it is as it should be. I know some times of the year I'll be layering a nice sweater underneath this, a la 'Mystery of the Blues', so I have no complaints. The satin sleeve liners make donning it effortless.

Going from a size 'Medium' Disney/Cooper jacket, this is like slipping into the driver's seat of a custom Ferrari - SO much quality to be wearing. So pleasantly satisfying...

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:06 pm

Kt Templar wrote:US side zippers always make me twitch

Glad you like it, now get wearin' it!

LOL! I know, I know - it was nearly down to a coin toss whether I went for screen-accuracy or what I've been used to all these years, and I decided upon going with what I was used to since I didn't want to fumble with the use of it. This will be my go-to jacket for the next few decades, so I wanted to be able to 'live' with it right out of the bag.

So far, after getting home from work, I changed into non-work clothes and I've been wearing it right here in the house... the Mrs. isn't home yet to giggle at me.

Fortunately this goat is soft enough that I won't have to sleep in it to break it in...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:09 pm

Kt Templar wrote:US side zippers always make me twitch

You and me both, KT! Having exclusively worn Wested since 1998, my fingers go numb and uncoordinated when I occasionally slip on an American jacket! That's what 15 years of British zipping does to a Yank! But it's a small price to pay because I dearly love my Westeds! Speaking of which, Zeit's new Raiders is out of the park! An absolute grand-slam from across the pond! It looks fantastic, and I really dig the new label design incorporating the Union Jack. This Wested veteran has always had to relocate the iconic flag from below the inside pocket to its rightful place beneath the famous gilded logo of Indy's original supplier. Wear it with pride, Zeitgeist! You've got a winner!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:14 pm

AH, but whipwarrior, the one under the pocket is used to flash at the person you've just had a conversation with who has just bemoaned that NOTHING is made in England any more...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:28 pm

The same can be said for the U.S. flag since everything is imported these days. But I much prefer British goods second only to American-made. To put it another way, I like my U.K. Indy gear so much that I hand-sewed a Union Jack patch onto one end of my waxed canvas twill Filson travel bag, a formidable task requiring a sturdy thimble, several heavy-duty needles (which kept breaking), and about 2 hours of painstaking work. On the opposite side of the bag I put a Texas flag to represent my favorite state!

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:31 pm

As requested, here's a few pics of the jacket this Wested replaces (much to my wife's happiness)...

Had a few more pics, but I figured the info on the tags was more interesting than seeing a shredded lining...

Now that I have a quality replacement, I might try to revitalize this one a bit with some leather dressing. It's cowhide, but it's never been conditioned and it looks pretty dry and grey.

EDIT: corrected photo sizes