Fedora for the Young Indy/YIJC Chronicles?

Obi Sean Kenobi · Post by **Obi Sean Kenobi** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:51 pm

Ive searched using the search engine, but was unable to find this information.

We know tha HJ made the hats for the original trilogy (with a Stetson thrown in the mix in ToD), and that AB made the hats for KotCS; but who was the original maker of the hats for the Young Indy series?

Thanks!

Regards,
OSK

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:39 pm

Obi Sean Kenobi wrote:Ive searched using the search engine, but was unable to find this information.

We know tha HJ made the hats for the original trilogy (with a Stetson thrown in the mix in ToD), and that AB made the hats for KotCS; but who was the original maker of the hats for the Young Indy series?

Thanks!

Regards,
OSK

HJ! W>

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:47 pm

Yep, HJ......same maker. The dimensions were changed to make it seem like Young indy had to "grow" into his hat....... atleast that's how it seemed at first, the hat used in the later episodes was drastically different.... the the one used in the first half.

Post by **Indy Magnoli** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:58 pm

Later in the series the hat just naturally begin to shrink and taper from heavy wear... but was never reblocked. Hence you go from this really nice looking HJ:

[img]http://sean_patrick_flanery.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/indy29.jpg[/img]

To this wreck:

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:23 pm

Correct, the specs was different, so was the ribbon ( size wise) and no dimensional cut.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:20 am

Yeah...starting out -- it was a pretty cool looking hat -- a style I wouldn't mind having, but boy did it get battered over the space of time. That latter pic (Magnoli's post, above) makes it almost look like a large boonie hat

! W>

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:37 am

Indy Magnoli wrote:Later in the series the hat just naturally begin to shrink and taper from heavy wear... but was never reblocked. Hence you go from this really nice looking HJ:

[img]http://sean_patrick_flanery.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/indy29.jpg[/img]

To this wreck:

Seriously that's the same hat with the same dinmensions just poorly taken care of? wow....... I always thought they just went with a different hat style for some odd reason.

I just didn't know it could one hat could change THAT drastically, that's amazing.
A good reminder to take care of your hat

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:07 am

Makes a sobering public service message: This is your hat. And this is your hat in the rain. Any questions?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:12 am

Well said. I had a rabbit felt Broner do that, but even worse if that can be imagined.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Charles · Post by **Indiana Charles** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:41 am

How could anything be worse than that second pic!?

-I.C.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:49 am

Believe me, some can.....and do.

Mine turned into a witches hat.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:49 am

It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:05 pm

BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.

So, question then...why does it take them so long to finish these hats

? Sorry...couldn't resist this one

! W>

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:53 pm

it doesn't most likely they are waiting for their place in line with the factory to make them and they don't keep a large stock.

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:07 pm

BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.

HJ felt is only Rabbit?

I don't know how I didn't know this.....

So you're only paying for the name?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:25 pm

backstagejack wrote:
BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.
HJ felt is only Rabbit?

I don't know how I didn't know this.....

So you're only paying for the name?

Basically, yes. Most factory hats are made real fast and in this fashion.

It happens to most great companies. They start off small and if they are really good at what they do they build a name " brand" (and a great product). They become known in the hat world or even bigger become common place like Stetson. Even people who are not into hats know the name Stetson. Demand becomes so big that they need to speed up production and cut cost. In some cases they sell the company to a bigger company and thus mass production begins and quality is cut for a better profit margin and speed.

John

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:34 pm

BendingOak wrote:
backstagejack wrote:
BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.
HJ felt is only Rabbit?

I don't know how I didn't know this.....

So you're only paying for the name?

Basically, yes. Most factory hats are made real fast and in this fashion.

It happens to most great companies. They start off small and if they are really good at what they do they build a name " brand" (and a great product). They become known in the hat world or even bigger become common place like Stetson. Even people who are not into hats know the name Stetson. Demand becomes so big that they need to speed up production and cut cost. In some cases they sell the company to a bigger company and thus mass production begins and quality is cut for a better profit margin and speed.

John

Well, yeah, I knew that happened normally especially with something like Stetson, I just didn't think HJ would go that route since they had such a reputation and charge so much. A factory made rabbit felt hat that is poor quality?

I mean, atleast with Akubra you're getting a factory made rabbit felt hat that's durable as can be for half the price or less.
Oh well, such is life I reckon....

I did read on Facebook about your new selections of hats including a YIJC version. I'm excited to see it!

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:09 pm

backstagejack wrote:
BendingOak wrote:
backstagejack wrote:
BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.
HJ felt is only Rabbit?

I don't know how I didn't know this.....

So you're only paying for the name?

Basically, yes. Most factory hats are made real fast and in this fashion.

It happens to most great companies. They start off small and if they are really good at what they do they build a name " brand" (and a great product). They become known in the hat world or even bigger become common place like Stetson. Even people who are not into hats know the name Stetson. Demand becomes so big that they need to speed up production and cut cost. In some cases they sell the company to a bigger company and thus mass production begins and quality is cut for a better profit margin and speed.

John
Well, yeah, I knew that happened normally especially with something like Stetson, I just didn't think HJ would go that route since they had such a reputation and charge so much. A factory made rabbit felt hat that is poor quality?

I mean, atleast with Akubra you're getting a factory made rabbit felt hat that's durable as can be for half the price or less.
Oh well, such is life I reckon....

I did read on Facebook about your new selections of hats including a YIJC version. I'm excited to see it!

Yes...this too I would like to see! There is something intrinsically interesting about the hat. It just looks so (I know this will sound odd...) Hobo with class! Just relaxed enough (still talking about the 'good one' prior to devastation) to be truly everyman, but yet still hold on to (this came from a class-act maker) look! It just really is cool. Kind of reminds me of some of the wonderful 'old' Stetsons (good ones, in those days) that I would get handed down by my grandfather and my dad and wear as a kid. (Boy, I would like to have them now -- except, my head is too large anymore...) I was able to wear some really cool old hats, as a child. And, my wife wonders (not too often -- really, but occasionally) why I love my hats

. W>

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:02 pm

BendingOak wrote:
backstagejack wrote:
BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.
HJ felt is only Rabbit?

I don't know how I didn't know this.....

So you're only paying for the name?

Basically, yes. Most factory hats are made real fast and in this fashion.

It happens to most great companies. They start off small and if they are really good at what they do they build a name " brand" (and a great product). They become known in the hat world or even bigger become common place like Stetson. Even people who are not into hats know the name Stetson. Demand becomes so big that they need to speed up production and cut cost. In some cases they sell the company to a bigger company and thus mass production begins and quality is cut for a better profit margin and speed.

John

And now you know why I cringe every time I hear some fast talking, slicked back promoter CEO type yakking about "building the brand." To me that just reads figuring out how to overcharge for a name and deliver nothing in exchange.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:07 pm

Ridgerunner58 wrote:
BendingOak wrote:
backstagejack wrote:
BendingOak wrote:It's the HJ rabbit felt they use and how they block it. It's blocked almost dry, Just a little bit of steam. It takes them about a hour to make a hat from start to finish.
HJ felt is only Rabbit?

I don't know how I didn't know this.....

So you're only paying for the name?

Basically, yes. Most factory hats are made real fast and in this fashion.

It happens to most great companies. They start off small and if they are really good at what they do they build a name " brand" (and a great product). They become known in the hat world or even bigger become common place like Stetson. Even people who are not into hats know the name Stetson. Demand becomes so big that they need to speed up production and cut cost. In some cases they sell the company to a bigger company and thus mass production begins and quality is cut for a better profit margin and speed.

John
And now you know why I cringe every time I hear some fast talking, slicked back promoter CEO type yakking about "building the brand." To me that just reads figuring out how to overcharge for a name and deliver nothing in exchange.

Exactly! Less quality for more quantity and 'we' the consumer's are still paying for the 'original proto-type' which has been paid for more then 100 fold! W>

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:07 pm

How realistic is the 'dead felt' theory: that as a hat gets older, the felt becomes more stabilized and less likely to shrink or taper? My rabbit fur HJ Poet hasn't changed a bit in the 14 years I've owned it, and it has even endured a light rain shower or two without effect. Not that I'm planning to soak it with a fire hose, but the felt is probably as 'stable' as it's likely to get.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:00 am

whipwarrior wrote:How realistic is the 'dead felt' theory: that as a hat gets older, the felt becomes more stabilized and less likely to shrink or taper? My rabbit fur HJ Poet hasn't changed a bit in the 14 years I've owned it, and it has even endured a light rain shower or two without effect. Not that I'm planning to soak it with a fire hose, but the felt is probably as 'stable' as it's likely to get.

I am not a hatter, but it sounds like to me that you got one of their hats, when the felting was of better quality. I don't know. John: Perhaps you can help here! W>

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:10 pm

I have a few tendons and ligaments and occasionally a disk in my back that lend strong support to the notion that things become less elastic as they get older. There's a whole medical specialty built around combatting that sad fact.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Felt is matted hair. In its normal state it's a cone. A hatter soaks it in water and then stretches it over a wooden form where it's allowed to dry in a new shape. In that shape many of the fibers are stretched. Over time they may try to pull back or shrink toward their original shape. Having been stretched they won't go all the way back though. If you then stretch them back a few more times eventually their elasticity will disappear and the fibers will no longer be under tension. At that point the felt is stable in its new shape, or "dead."

I suspect if you then tried to change it from that now stable shape it would take time to accept that different shape, but you probably wouldn't see it shrink into a cone again.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:32 pm

ridgerunner, correct except most do not soak their felt. They just spray it and/or steam them to block them.

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:54 am

Didn't someone post a hat-making story about how the Italians 'smoke' their hats in such a way as to stabilize the felt so that there is no shrinkage/taper? I seem to recall this from way back in the day...

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:30 am

I know Steve does that to his. There's nothing quite like the aroma of a new Adventurebilt.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:42 am

We had another ex-member here (who disappeared and no longer exists as a hat maker) who did the same thing, and it worked.....but quite frankly, when received, his hats flat stunk.

Smelled like old cigar/cigarette smoke, though the guy didn't moke.

Took a while for the hat for finally air out, but after that there's been absolutely no problems with taper or the like, and that hat has been in many a rain storm over the years.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:55 pm

I can tell you first hand that the technique Steve uses to age/stable a hat has nothing to do with smoke.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:12 pm

I do know that there is a technique which involves fire...here's a photo Bob from Black Sheep Hat Works (a custom hatter out of Washington) shared on his facebook page:

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:15 pm

That has nothing to do with aging the felt. That is a technique used to get the tiny hairs off the felt.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:06 pm

I hope this procedure is a really, really fast -- flash-fire! Otherwise, there wouldn't be much felt there to finish the hat

! Plus looks like it could be a bit hazardous to one's well being

! W>

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:18 am

Only if you're wearing it at the time.

\

Regards! M

Indiana Charles · Post by **Indiana Charles** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:21 pm

Looks like fedora flambé.

-I.C.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:01 pm

WConly wrote:I hope this procedure is a really, really fast -- flash-fire! Otherwise, there wouldn't be much felt there to finish the hat ! Plus looks like it could be a bit hazardous to one's well being ! W>

Most hatters that use this technique only do it for a couple seconds.

My technique is completely different. Remember, firefighter.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:21 pm

BendingOak wrote:
WConly wrote:I hope this procedure is a really, really fast -- flash-fire! Otherwise, there wouldn't be much felt there to finish the hat ! Plus looks like it could be a bit hazardous to one's well being ! W>

Most hatters that use this technique only do it for a couple seconds.

My technique is completely different. Remember, firefighter.

Yeah...I remember. Boy that just seems a bit radical to me. No wonder the expression: Madhatter

! Realize that this was not the original definition as to one 'being as mad as a hatter,' but it certainly would add to the mix! W>

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:28 pm

Correct but if you saw how I use it you might have a stroke.

RNomura · Post by **RNomura** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:36 pm

Here are photos of my 1993 HJ Taupe Poet, which is what Mr. Swales told me was used as the Young Indy hat.

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~Ron

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Was it the style that was used? Because the color looks way off. Also the not is off from what I have seen on screen. What is the brim size? And ribbon?

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:16 pm

BendingOak wrote:Correct but if you saw how I use it you might have a stroke.

Well....

, in this particular case -- I think it might not be better to remain in the dark

! I have had more then enough excitement in my life, to take any chances now -- especially over a ....a, hat

! W>

RNomura · Post by **RNomura** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:00 pm

I had this hat refurbished by HJ in late 1993 after it took a dip in San Francisco Bay. The original ribbon was darker in color and had a look that had three sections in its folding. The hat was an "off the shelf" poet with no trimming. Swales assured me this was the hat used in the YIJC.

Since he sold me my first hat in 1988, I had no reason to believe his information was incorrect. Although, I did notice
the shade looked lighter than what I was viewing on television.

I may have to look at my first season laserdiscs from Japan again..

~Ron

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:46 pm

What's the specs of the brim and ribbon?

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:23 am

Swales told me too that the brim was 3 1/8" - an untrimmed Poet. Nomura will have to tell you the brim width but that taupe/ mushroom color does seem a bit funky.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:04 am

And the ribbon?

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:58 pm

Not sure. Hey, Ron! Measure that ribbon!!! I'm guessing 2 inches. Swales had put a 1 3/4 on my original HJ and this looks to be a little wider.

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:01 pm

And, aside from the color, this is the only HJ YIJ that I have ever seen posted.

One could order one now from HJ I suspect - get the brim at 3 1/8" and replace the ribbon. The rest is all blocking.

Beyond that I am convinced that it is not a separate block.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:14 pm

I'm getting conflicting information. I was told 3 inches and 1 3/4 on the ribbon. The Olof is way off.

RNomura · Post by **RNomura** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:55 pm

The brim on my YIJ hat is 3" with an 1-3/4" ribbon.

It's shrunken somewhat in the 20 years I've owned it. Could a reblock restore it's original size? it's 7-1/2"

John, what is an Olof??

~Ron

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:25 pm

A typing mistake on this iPad.

That makes more since. I think what you got there is a HJ block on the same block as the show. With the same specs and crease but the color of felt and ribbon are different. Not a bad hat to have but not the exact one.

Well, if the hat fits too tight. The sweatband is most likely shrunk as well as the felt. The reblock would help with the felt. Not sure you can stretch out the sweatband without possible damaging
It. How tight is it. Is it a little tight where it not comfortable or is it shrunken so much that you can't get it back on your head?

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:48 pm

Was going to say about the brim - at HJ (and at one point printed somewhere on HJ material but I don't know if I can find it) they - and I mean Swales again here - told me that the Poet had an untrimmed brim of 3 1/8". I once got one with an untrimmed brim and I can see how someone would miss that extra 1/8" in measuring if they didn't know about it or look for it carefully enough.

After being knocked around, and with its propensity for shrinking, an untrimmed HJ is going to end up at 3" very quickly in life.

Just a technicality but Swales did correct me on the untrimmed brim width. And he said that the YIJ was untrimmed, etc.

Funny though, seeing such a cool hat to begin with on the show and then such a mess later on in the series. That is out of control.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:52 pm

darthjones wrote:Funny though, seeing such a cool hat to begin with on the show and then such a mess later on in the series. That is out of control.

Very true, but it at least demonstrated what really happens with those HJ's when used hard and not 'serviced' properly over its lifetime of use.

Regards! Michaelson