The HJ Vintage Project

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:43 pm

Ok...probably, a controversial replica.

First this clarification: Not a actual HJ.

Since a few members start posting those beautiful vintage HJ, re-blocked, restored, etc, and a couple of HJ Raiders era; I'm looking on the web (ebay, etc.) for vintage HJs.
The search yields limited results. I could buy vintage HJ, but none Raiders era.

Then an idea came up.
What if I ask to the felt factory a special felt run (limited), using the current felt as basis but making a few "improvements"?
In order to replicate as much as possible the Raiders era felt.

The improvements are:
* slightly lighter in color (keeping the right undertones we already have on our felt)
* slightly thinner (reducing maybe just 0.5 mm)
* slightly less shellac, to make it more "pliable", "floppier"

They delivered a sample. Very nice.

Then, I thought, what if I try to replicate the sweatband and the liner, with the inscriptions and all?
If I want to have a HJ Raiders era replica, must have correct sweatband and liner.
There was a minimum to order. So, I did.

Next are a few pictures. I realize the hat needed a brushed...after the pics were taken...

More info next week.

In the meantime, what do you think?

Clic to enlarge

Regards.-

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:02 pm

Very interesting............ however, I would hope that replicating the Herbert Johnson name and so forth does not cause you any legal issues?

shade88 · Post by **shade88** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:07 pm

Oklahoma Jones wrote:Very interesting............ however, I would hope that replicating the Herbert Johnson name and so forth does not cause you any legal issues?

What he said.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:41 pm

shade88 wrote:
Oklahoma Jones wrote:Very interesting............ however, I would hope that replicating the Herbert Johnson name and so forth does not cause you any legal issues?
What he said.

Indeed. There should also be some differentiating marks so that someone with more, shall we say, unsavory motives, can't pass one off as the real deal.

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:47 pm

DUUUUDE! Just when I was so content with my Steel&Jones hat! Now I want this one!

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 pm

It's bedtime here, but I couldn't help to login and check this thread.

We have not yet decided if we will do a production of this hat.

Anyway, the sweatband and liner's back are full of this ink stamps:

If I have enough time, this weekend I can post more pictures, and reply to your questions.
Regards.-

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:59 pm

This is a most impressive reproduction of what is a truly 'classic' hat from motion pictures! Out of couriousity, just where did you search out the felt for this hat? I mean, where do you start in trying to find a 'felt-from-the-past?' I would really like to understand more regarding your deductive pursuit of this felt! I think the full story behind the search would make for interesting reading. Thanks, in advance! W>

EDIT: I just re-read your original post and now I think I understand more clearly -- you went to your own provider and described what you wanted for the felt and they provided with the consideration of a minimum amount quantity to complete the order. Sorry, I read things to fast, at times and thus miss details. Still, I am amazed at your deductions regarding what you perceive the 'felt' to have been. How did you arrive at this? W>

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:41 pm

With regards to the thickness (or 'thinness') of the felt, pretty much every vintage hat I own has thinner (and denser) felt than a modern hat, including custom hats. I would say that having thinner blanks is a pretty reasonable assumption. Although the question of density also comes into play, as the two don't necessarily correlate nicely.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:04 pm

jlee562 wrote:With regards to the thickness (or 'thinness') of the felt, pretty much every vintage hat I own has thinner (and denser) felt than a modern hat, including custom hats. I would say that having thinner blanks is a pretty reasonable assumption. Although the question of density also comes into play, as the two don't necessarily correlate nicely.

There you go...this is what I was looking for with my quesitons. And, precisely what I thought to be true. So, how does one balance the 'two' - thinner blanks vs density? W>

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:33 pm

How thin a felt body is and how dense it is a relationship that is mutually exclusive. Take a regular cotton t-shirt, for example, and a mesh jersey. As far as thickness goes, they are similar, but their density is way different. The jersey has spaces in between the fibers to allow for better breathing. Well, the same is true of fur felt. Some felt bodies are less dense, having spaces between fibers that allow it to breathe better (and allow it to soak up moisture better

). Others are denser, being felted so tight that it is hard to permeate. This is a huge factor in how long a hat will hold out before shrinking or losing its shape. Has nothing to do with thickness. You can have loose thick felt bodies and dense thin bodies just as well. Hope that helps you out, though I'm sure a hatter on here can explain it better than I did.

Dave

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:49 pm

I always thought a thin felt Borsa would have made a good Raiders hat.

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:12 am

I actually bought three Borsallino Allessandria hats from Peterbros. years ago and to this day, I feel that particular felt weight made a perfect Raiders hat. Always got the same vib from them that I got from seeing all the close up shots inside the peruvian temple sequence.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:50 am

Thanks all for your replies.

Now, a few pictures.

It's difficult to show the correct colors and undertones. In person, the new felt, has more red undertones.

Clarifications:
* The Todd's HJ 2005 has been re-blocked at least twice. So, it faded a little.
* The HJ approx. 1960's color is fawn.
* The new felt is allways at bottom and left.

I can't figure it out how to show you the thickness and floppiness of this new felt.
Offcourse the thinner felt has to do with more hand pouncing during the making.

Looking foward to your opinions.
Regards.-

PS: if someone is interested on this, please contact me through the usual e-mail.

clic to HQ image

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:01 am

Texan Scott wrote:I always thought a thin felt Borsa would have made a good Raiders hat.

They do. I have a 1950's vintage Borsalino that is the perfect thickness as a Raiders hat.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:28 am

Michaelson wrote:
Texan Scott wrote:I always thought a thin felt Borsa would have made a good Raiders hat.
They do. I have a 1950's vintage Borsalino that is the perfect thickness as a Raiders hat.

Regards! Michaelson

How thick is your vintage Borsalino? I have a couple vintage borsalinos that are thin both different thickness. How much would you you say in mm?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:46 am

Johnny, stay in that shop and be careful in the mall!

...cover me, Honey, I'm going to Sears!..?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:19 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Michaelson wrote:
Texan Scott wrote:I always thought a thin felt Borsa would have made a good Raiders hat.
They do. I have a 1950's vintage Borsalino that is the perfect thickness as a Raiders hat.

Regards! Michaelson

How thick is your vintage Borsalino? I have a couple vintage borsalinos that are thin both different thickness. How much would you you say in mm?

It's super thin, John, but very flexible. I had Art Fawcett rebuild it after I got it, and he said it was a very thin beaver felt. Without a micrometer, I'd be afraid to even make a guess on thickness, but like I said, VERY thin and flexible....but the type that you can move in any direction and it stays where you put it, like a really tightly felted beaver does.

Regards! M

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:46 pm

What would you say it was next to your AB? 1/2 , 1/4?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:56 pm

Ah, good comparison.... I'd say probably around 1/2 in thickness compared to an AB beaver dress felt.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:15 pm

I would say 3mm as I don't know any felter who works in half. Based on the felt Steve uses.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:17 pm

If I can find a micrometer in the next few days, I'll see what this thing is and PM the measurement to you if you're interested, John.

Regards!M

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:51 pm

That would be great. I think you can be to thin for the Raiders hat.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:32 pm

Will do.

Regards! M

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:47 pm

Indiego jones, I'm so sorry for high jacking your thread but the talk of felt and the thickness of the Raiders hat got the best of me.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:22 am

BendingOak wrote:Indiego jones, I'm so sorry for high jacking your thread but the talk of felt and the thickness of the Raiders hat got the best of me.

No problem at all my friend!
As you know, I'm interested in the subject too.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Thu May 02, 2013 4:33 pm

Info about ordering only by e-mail. (Limited run)

Pictures of the nº 1:

(clic to enlarge)

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu May 02, 2013 5:27 pm

I like your choice of liner.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Thu May 02, 2013 5:59 pm

BendingOak wrote:I like your choice of liner.

Thanks John!
The seal was very hard to replicate.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Sat May 04, 2013 2:56 am

What are you doing for the ribbon?
Is it Steve and John's authentic ribbon, or something else?

Johnny

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:02 am

Pictures of LE # 04

clic to enlarge

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:47 am

That looks awesome, man! I love it! Price point?

Dave

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:50 am

DR Ulloa wrote:That looks awesome, man! I love it! Price point?

Dave

I can't write the price here.
Please, ask to this mail: pedidos@steele-jones.com.ar

Regards.-

Gorak · Post by **Gorak** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:19 am

Here are some quick shots of this Steele and Jones awedsome replica. Great hat that has already been rained on, crushed, traveled with me by just being thrown into the backseat, and pounced on by a monkey......and still looks every bit an accurate authentic Raiders hat. Great job, guys. Loving this hat!
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/kokoros ... ort=6&o=18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/kokoros ... ort=6&o=22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/kokoros ... ort=6&o=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/kokoros ... sort=6&o=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/kokoros ... sort=6&o=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Duck9000 · Post by **Duck9000** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:18 am

Hi Gorak, aparently, links doesn't works. Could you please check it out? I would love to see that hat

. Thanks!

Gorak wrote:Here are some quick shots of this Steele and Jones awedsome replica. Great hat that has already been rained on, crushed, traveled with me by just being thrown into the backseat, and pounced on by a monkey......and still looks every bit an accurate authentic Raiders hat. Great job, guys. Loving this hat!
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps489324b7.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...psbceeac17.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps1a657074.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps520230e6.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps4e70feaf.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ps15be0773.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:23 am

Standard ops. for reproducing these hats, particularly the Raiders hat in various forms, has been to make the hat durable, and why not, because after all, the intended use is different, for many years in a person's life, instead of as a movie prop. When I think of the Raiders movie hat, it was thin felt, but the color has been difficult to capture. Repro.'s are generally darker and have a purplish undertone. The Raiders hat also degraded very fast, in roughly 2 1/2 months of filming, and in tough circumstances, particularly Tunisia. So intended use is different, as is the purpose is completely different. As a hatter, I would think that sometimes you guys would be in a quandary of making a hat with good/durable felt that will see lots of use over a person's lifetime, or maybe 10-20 years, vs. do I make a hat that was just like the movie version: thin, light, of not so good quality?

I would assume that somewhere within these variables, you have to strike a balance. The Raiders fedora did not become the SoC that we have come to know, that is, it would not have taken on its shape without the fact that it was not a high grade fedora. I still believe that if you go thin, and match the color as closely as possible, something that seems difficult to do, you are well on the road...

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:47 am

Texan Scott wrote:Standard ops. for reproducing these hats, particularly the Raiders hat in various forms, has been to make the hat durable, and why not, because after all, the intended use is different, for many years in a person's life, instead of as a movie prop. When I think of the Raiders movie hat, it was thin felt, but the color has been difficult to capture. Repro.'s are generally darker and have a purplish undertone. The Raiders hat also degraded very fast, in roughly 2 1/2 months of filming, and in tough circumstances, particularly Tunisia. So intended use is different, as is the purpose is completely different. As a hatter, I would think that sometimes you guys would be in a quandary of making a hat with good/durable felt that will see lots of use over a person's lifetime, or maybe 10-20 years, vs. do I make a hat that was just like the movie version: thin, light, of not so good quality? I would assume that somewhere within these variables, you have to strike a balance. The Raiders fedora did not become the SoC that we have come to know, that is, it would not have taken on its shape without the fact that it was not a high grade fedora. I still believe that if you go thin, and match the color as closely as possible, something that seems difficult to do, you are well on the road...

The fact that (the Raiders hat) "it was not a high grade fedora" is not actually a fact. Is just an assumption resulting from the perception on what is seeing in the movie screen.
Most of that is make up, lighting, and working-distressing the felt fedora, on purpose. Not a "normal" aging.

I had the opportunity to study a Herbert Johnson Raiders Era felt. Sable color.
It was indeed a good felt. Closer to hat's golden age fedoras, than todays felts.

I've seen "known brands" hats, made out of top-shelf felts (even beaver) that tappers extremely after a rain exposure.
So, there's no 10-20 years of immaculate guaranteed condition of any hat, whatever brand that is.

It all comes to the question:
Do I want an Indy fedora made with the most period accurate felt replica?
........or made from any other felt?

IMO, if I want an Indy fedora it must be the closer to the original as possible. For other hat styles I look into different options.
Kind Regards.-

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:59 am

Maybe, but you take a "quality" fedora, and it just would not age/distress like the one in the movie. Obviously, there are things that we cannot know because very few, if any of us have been able to see and handle the original in person. There are certain conclusions you can draw, simply by the way it aged and distressed on film, and it leads you to the conclusion that if you have two choices: A.) very durable, high quality felt or B.) thin felt, probably quite a bit of air in the felt, not very dense, prone to not hold its shape very well, etc., I know the one I would choose. I still think the HJ/Christy felt is close to the actual movie hat. For sure it was thin and not super durable felt. The screenused fedora seems to point people in that direction as well.

Banky · Post by **Banky** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:44 pm

I'm in the process of writing my review of this hat (Sorry Diego it's taking so long, life has been busy. It's coming I promise!)

I will say this, being the person primarily in charge of hat cleaning and refurbishment at the shop, I have now seen 3 raiders era poets come through the shop as well as a handful of generic Raiders era HJ's and a couple older. Diego's felt is very very close. As far as the actual poets I've worked on, they're by no means poor quality. I'd put them probably middle of the road. It's not the highest quality felt I've ever seen nor is it the lowest. The best analogy I could make that might help you guys imagine what a vintage HJ feels like is take the felt quality of a modern Heritage grade Fed make it slightly thinner and cut down the stiffener in it considerably you have yourself a Raiders era HJ.

As I said, full review of the HJ replica coming. I'm waiting on my photag girlfriend to snap a few pictures for me. Unfortunately, she is less enthusiastic about my Indy obsession than I am

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:51 pm

Banky, thank you so much for your input. Looking foward to your review.

TS,
First, let me say that I respect your opinion very much.
I don't want this conversation to be understood like I'm trying to bash your comments. Nothing like that.

I just feel the need to clarify some points regarding the Raiders fedora.
Because over the years, many assumptions were considered to be true facts, just by continually repeating.
And personal experience, by directly analyzing the materials, gave different results.

Texan Scott wrote:Maybe, but you take a "quality" fedora, and it just would not age/distress like the one in the movie.

It depends of what do you understand as a "quality fedora".
I've seen/handled "known brands" hats (quality fedoras), made out of top-shelf felts (even beaver), that were completely distressed after a month of use (not abused).

And, I'm sorry to repeat this again, but I can see some "gospels" are deep inside of us:
The Raiders felt WASN'T low quality.
It was a much better felt than todays. Not as floppy as you might think (not SOC style). And with a beautiful (unique) sable color/undertones. Approx. 2 mm thick.

Texan Scott wrote:Obviously, there are things that we cannot know because very few, if any of us have been able to see and handle the original in person.

It is my understanding that the only person who had the chance of handle a screen-used Raiders fedora is COW member Desi (Screen-used).
And he didn't give much of detailed info on the item.

Texan Scott wrote:There are certain conclusions you can draw, simply by the way it aged and distressed on film

You can draw all day my friend

but the fedora you see on screen was heavily distressed (softened the felt on purpose), exposed directly to sun by hours, to a very high temperature, and lots of make up was added. So, that image you see on screen has no reliability. Nothing of the aging you see in the film hat was normal (or from normal use).

Texan Scott wrote:I still think the HJ/Christy felt is close to the actual movie hat. For sure it was thin and not super durable felt. The screenused fedora seems to point people in that direction as well.

I have a 2004 HJ. And a 2005 Christy.
1st: Many said they come from the same factory/same felt. At least in my case, NOT TRUE. Different felt and construction.
2nd: Modern HJ/Christy felt are different to HJ Raiders Era felt. I think BANKY explained this perfectly.
3rd: The screenused fedora show many important details (besides the crappy pictures). For ex. the color...if you have the pictures, take a close look, and take your time. Eventually you'll find something very weird...

BTW, like the original Raiders felt, the one we use is quality felt.

Many people based their fedora choices/purchases according to certain "facts" that wasn't quite accurate.
I'm not saying people lied to us, just that is very common to assume some info is true just because you hear it many-many times.
Cheers.-

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:43 pm

IJ, I think it comes down to how one definition of great, good or poor quality. I have seen here and many places that people use the word great way too much. example. Akubra fed 4. Its a good hat but I would never call it great. Lots of people call it great but it's not. Nor would I call the Raiders felt. I have seen HJ hats from that time period and there was some nice hats. Some of the felt was great but You cant say that since they had some great quality hats that gives the Raiders hat a pass for being great. I think people romance about that hat and so do I ( and I'm sure you do ) we wouldn't be doing what we do if we didn't.

I think people can't replicate it 100% so we romance that the felt is lost because it was so high of a quality felt. I think thats where the mistake is with that felt. I think that something was different of the making of the felt but it doesn't play a complete roll of quality.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:56 pm

I see what you mean, John.

What I'm trying to say is that even if the original felt was not top quality/number 1, but neither the low quality that can be found today in some factory hats. It was something in the middle.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:50 pm

Indiego Jones wrote:I see what you mean, John.

What I'm trying to say is that even if the original felt was not top quality/number 1, but neither the low quality that can be found today in some factory hats. It was something in the middle.

We agree then, but the secret to that felt isn't in the quality.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:13 pm

Ever feel like you stepped in the wrong thread?

Should've just left it alone since I do not actually have one of these HJ vintage project hats. This may be where we have to agree to disagree, but I know what I have seen in film and on screen, and I do not believe that the fedora that was filmed in Raiders was a high quality hat. They went through about a month of filming in France and England, then about 3-4 weeks in Tunisia. Most of the England stuff was filmed inside the studio at Elstree, so that means that that quite a bit of distressing went into that hat before and during the time that they got to Tunisia. By this point, the hat could not look new, but a well worn hat that had been through all kinds of conditions. Just take a look at the SoC shots, the Marhaba Bar, any of these, and its obvious that the brim was wrecked, to the point that it could not hold its shape, so to keep it from dipping down too far into his eyes or covering up his face, they set the hat back on his head for filming. The is pretty common when taking photos, etc, with larger brimmed hats. When you begin to see signs pointing in a certain direction, you tend to follow it, and during the SoC, flying wing and truck chase, etc., you see characteristics of a lower quality felt.

Its difficult to compare any era hat, and say that because this was made by HJ, then this must be very similar to the one he wore for the move, because quite frankly, we don't know either way, so about the only thing we can do is rely on what we see in film, and I'm definitely not seeing a thick felted hat, nor one that is beaver or pristine. Its obviously a thinner felted, rabbit hat. As to how much stiffener, etc., we have no way of knowing. Whether they slam dunked it into the pool, we have no idea. Truth is, we have no way of knowing how much make-up or fullers earth, actual dirt or whatever was applied, or if they simply asked Ford to wear it all the time. Still, even if they DID use all that, it does not account for the shape of the hat. Could be all of the above, we have no idea. Steve and John both have mentioned how difficult it is to distress a beaver hat to look anything near the movie version, and having had one of these too, I see what they mean. I have to believe that it would be very difficult to distress a high grade felt in order to make it look like the one in the movie. There are too many unknowns here and too many variables to tout it either way, but what I do see in film, is something like, and notice I did say...something like the modern HJ/Christy type felt. At one time, the Christy Cork and Sable colored felt were the closest in color and appearance to anything out there. Take a look at the ribbon and bow on the screenused hat, and that is not top quality either, nor the workmanship...thread and pieces of material hanging out...give me a break! Things are starting to line up, aren't they? It just depends on if you care to see them or not. To accuse people of propagating myths, when you yourself can't definitely speak with any certainty of what the actual one is, says quite a bit.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:14 pm

TS, I think we are agreeing.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:02 pm

Agreed John.
Cheers.-

Banky · Post by **Banky** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:28 pm

Hey guys, the following is my review of the Steele & Jones Herbert Johnson Replica Raiders hat. I hope you find it informative and any points I've missed don't hesitate to ask any questions, I'll be happy to answer to the best of my ability.

I would like to preface this with I am a hatter's apprentice at The Brass Rooster here in Milwaukee (http://www.brassrooster.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). I mention this just because as the shop's apprentice one of my primary duties is the cleaning and refurbishment of any and all hats that come in, be it walk in customers or hats that come in from one of several dry cleaners we hold contracts with to do their hat cleaning. Point is I've worked on a lot of hats from the 1800's all the way up present, from any number of manufacturers past and present. This includes now 3 Raiders Era HJ poets. That said onto the hat in question.

I've always wanted a poet, I'm one of those guys that needed “the hat” However, as we all know, modern production HJ's are of sub-par quality and the blocking is lack luster. Enter Steele & Jones and their Vintage HJ project. After speaking with Diego (who btw was extremely helpful, kind and genuinely a great individual to work with) I ordered a HJ replica.

Here are my thoughts in kind of a chronology of receiving the hat:

The shipping packaging wasn't great. I know Diego's hands are kind of tied with what he can put through Argentinian customs, however my box and hat were fairly crushed. I would like to see some form of more robust shipping packaging in the future. And I'm not placing the blame on Diego here, we all know the post office has very little regard for others property.

After straightening the hat out:

Blocking is outstanding, probably the best Raiders block job I've seen. Dead straight on all sides nice and tall, boxy, slight reverse taper evident. As far as looking like a raiders hat this is dead on and I want to know where Diego got his blocks.

The felt is very very close to that of the vintage HJ's I've worked on. Out of the box it was a little more stiff than I had anticipated, however now at about 2-3 weeks into owning the hat and wearing it daily it has started to break down nicely and I'm happy with the stiffness the felt is settling into.

The color is a warmer brown than that of the felt from other hatters. Dark enough that it has enough room to fade to that SA color but not the dark brown from other manufacturers. I'm very happy with it,and in my opinion it's a superior shade of brown.

Bow work was very good, Diego did a great job getting that “flying V” into the bow.

The ribbon is my main complaint with the hat, it's lighter than it should be. Which is really only apparent in very direct light (as seen in the attached pics), but the ribbon should be nearly black while still maintaining the brown undertones 1 shade darker would be my preference.

The liner is beautifully reproduced, I love the HJ seal right there, makes the hat feel like the real deal.

The sweatband isn't the highest quality. It's about on par with the sweat you get in a Heritage Fed, but I'm probably spoiled by the sweats we use in shop being top quality roan goat. It's very comfortable, soft, and has conformed to my head perfectly so it's doing the job it's supposed to do. It's also got the HJ stamp with Raiders Era address on it with is a nice touch.

Stitching all around is very good and even the hat is well put together and feels like it'll endure quite well.

The hat is great, I have stopped wearing any other Indy hat I own exclusively favoring this one. It screams that Raiders look and just feels like Indy's hat really has the spirit of adventure inherent in it which just makes me reach of it every morning upon leaving the house. I highly recommend this hat, you will not be disappointed. If a raiders hat is what you're after, I think you'd be hard pressed to find better. If I had the money I would be ordering a second just to keep on hand, it's that good. Gets my personal vote for best Raiders hat available today.

Here's a link to an album of a few shots of the hat, and me wearing it. Hope, my opinion was helpful...

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Allri ... %20Replica" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:58 am

I'm impressed. It has tons of character and looks like you've worn it for years.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:02 am

Banky wrote:Hey guys, the following is my review of the Steele & Jones Herbert Johnson Replica Raiders hat. I hope you find it informative and any points I've missed don't hesitate to ask any questions, I'll be happy to answer to the best of my ability.

I would like to preface this with I am a hatter's apprentice at The Brass Rooster here in Milwaukee (http://www.brassrooster.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). I mention this just because as the shop's apprentice one of my primary duties is the cleaning and refurbishment of any and all hats that come in, be it walk in customers or hats that come in from one of several dry cleaners we hold contracts with to do their hat cleaning. Point is I've worked on a lot of hats from the 1800's all the way up present, from any number of manufacturers past and present. This includes now 3 Raiders Era HJ poets. That said onto the hat in question.

I've always wanted a poet, I'm one of those guys that needed “the hat” However, as we all know, modern production HJ's are of sub-par quality and the blocking is lack luster. Enter Steele & Jones and their Vintage HJ project. After speaking with Diego (who btw was extremely helpful, kind and genuinely a great individual to work with) I ordered a HJ replica.

Here are my thoughts in kind of a chronology of receiving the hat:

The shipping packaging wasn't great. I know Diego's hands are kind of tied with what he can put through Argentinian customs, however my box and hat were fairly crushed. I would like to see some form of more robust shipping packaging in the future. And I'm not placing the blame on Diego here, we all know the post office has very little regard for others property.

After straightening the hat out:

Blocking is outstanding, probably the best Raiders block job I've seen. Dead straight on all sides nice and tall, boxy, slight reverse taper evident. As far as looking like a raiders hat this is dead on and I want to know where Diego got his blocks.

The felt is very very close to that of the vintage HJ's I've worked on. Out of the box it was a little more stiff than I had anticipated, however now at about 2-3 weeks into owning the hat and wearing it daily it has started to break down nicely and I'm happy with the stiffness the felt is settling into.

The color is a warmer brown than that of the felt from other hatters. Dark enough that it has enough room to fade to that SA color but not the dark brown from other manufacturers. I'm very happy with it,and in my opinion it's a superior shade of brown.

Bow work was very good, Diego did a great job getting that “flying V” into the bow.

The ribbon is my main complaint with the hat, it's lighter than it should be. Which is really only apparent in very direct light (as seen in the attached pics), but the ribbon should be nearly black while still maintaining the brown undertones 1 shade darker would be my preference.

The liner is beautifully reproduced, I love the HJ seal right there, makes the hat feel like the real deal.

The sweatband isn't the highest quality. It's about on par with the sweat you get in a Heritage Fed, but I'm probably spoiled by the sweats we use in shop being top quality roan goat. It's very comfortable, soft, and has conformed to my head perfectly so it's doing the job it's supposed to do. It's also got the HJ stamp with Raiders Era address on it with is a nice touch.

Stitching all around is very good and even the hat is well put together and feels like it'll endure quite well.

The hat is great, I have stopped wearing any other Indy hat I own exclusively favoring this one. It screams that Raiders look and just feels like Indy's hat really has the spirit of adventure inherent in it which just makes me reach of it every morning upon leaving the house. I highly recommend this hat, you will not be disappointed. If a raiders hat is what you're after, I think you'd be hard pressed to find better. If I had the money I would be ordering a second just to keep on hand, it's that good. Gets my personal vote for best Raiders hat available today.

Here's a link to an album of a few shots of the hat, and me wearing it. Hope, my opinion was helpful...

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Allri ... %20Replica" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Banky, thank you so much for this review.
I have to admit (and I told you), I was very anxious about your review.
Having a professional hatter to make a deep review on our hats...very stressing.
And I can see you were completely honest and critical on the hat. I appreciate this VERY MUCH.

I agree 100% with you on every single point of the analysis you did.

I'd like to add something:
This fedora was built with Banky's physical proportions in mind.
With the idea of replicating every Raiders nuances from that "start point".

We don't reproduce the same Ford's measurements for every size and person.
We use those measurements and proportions as a reference.

We make EVERY SINGLE of this hats in order to fits perfectly on you (not to look small or too big once you put it on your head), AND replicates the Raiders features just like in Harrison Ford's head.

Banky, enjoy it in good health, for many years!
Kind regards.-

PS: There's no secret of where we got our blocks. Are 100% custom. I did styrofoam blocks by hand, take them to the wood block maker and told him "Replicate this in wood". I did that for E-V-E-R-Y single block...1 set for movie. Was a 2 years work (studiyng vintage fedoras...try and error...tests..etc).

baddates1 · Post by **baddates1** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:53 pm

Indiego Jones wrote:Ok...probably, a controversial replica.

First this clarification: Not a actual HJ.

Since a few members start posting those beautiful vintage HJ, re-blocked, restored, etc, and a couple of HJ Raiders era; I'm looking on the web (ebay, etc.) for vintage HJs.
The search yields limited results. I could buy vintage HJ, but none Raiders era.

Then an idea came up.
What if I ask to the felt factory a special felt run (limited), using the current felt as basis but making a few "improvements"?
In order to replicate as much as possible the Raiders era felt.

The improvements are:
* slightly lighter in color (keeping the right undertones we already have on our felt)
* slightly thinner (reducing maybe just 0.5 mm)
* slightly less shellac, to make it more "pliable", "floppier"

They delivered a sample. Very nice.

Then, I thought, what if I try to replicate the sweatband and the liner, with the inscriptions and all?
If I want to have a HJ Raiders era replica, must have correct sweatband and liner.
There was a minimum to order. So, I did.

Next are a few pictures. I realize the hat needed a brushed...after the pics were taken...
More info next week.

In the meantime, what do you think?

Clic to enlarge

Regards.-

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuutiiiiiiiiiifuuuuuull hat! Nice how it is vintage too! Heck when was it made?

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:52 pm

Baddates- no offense man but you really need to start reading these threads first.