Bill Kelso's Victory Horsehide Relic Hunter

Kubrik · Post by **Kubrik** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:05 pm

After getting and wearing the RH in grainy lamb for a while, I'm still really impressed and enough blown away to go for the one in Victory horse. Serious stuff apparently. Saw images of the A2 in that leather, in a post here somewhere, which helped me make the move. Well I just got an email from them with photos of the actual one I'm getting... now I'm really pumped!

And here it is fellow COW members

The Relic Hunter in Victory Horse
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 158&type=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:22 pm

Great leather for an Indy jacket!

Forrest For the Trees · Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:06 pm

Yowza!

Baldwyn · Post by **Baldwyn** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:15 pm

Kubrik wrote:After getting and wearing the RH in grainy lamb for a while, I'm still really impressed and enough blown away to go for the one in Victory horse. Serious stuff apparently. Saw images of the A2 in that leather, in a post here somewhere, which helped me make the move. Well I just got an email from them with photos of the actual one I'm getting... now I'm really pumped!

And here it is fellow COW members

The Relic Hunter in Victory Horse
https://www.facebook.com/billkelsomfg/photos_stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That one's yours? Looks fantastic, congratulations!!! I'm working on getting one myself. Just need to sell a jacket or two first!

I can't wait to hear what you think when you get it!

Pyrodigital · Post by **Pyrodigital** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:38 am

Bloody ####, that leather looks great! Being horse, I'm assuming it'd be pretty durable as well, no? Please w/ cherries/ pick fruit of your choice on top post lots of pics when you get it?

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:13 am

I'm about receive mine in a different special leather too - thin cow. Will update when I receive it...

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am

That really is a gorgeous looking leather. I have only heard good things about Kelso's jackets.

Kubrik · Post by **Kubrik** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:34 am

Pyrodigital wrote:Bloody ####, that leather looks great! Being horse, I'm assuming it'd be pretty durable as well, no?

Yes, the most durable leather there is! One of the reasons I ordered it. Plus it looks fantastic the way they did it.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:21 pm

Is the RH in Victory leather 600 euros or is it more? This really is one of the nicest leathers I have seen. I am interested in knowing how stiff the leather is as well.

Kubrik · Post by **Kubrik** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:02 pm

Canada Jones wrote:Is the RH in Victory leather 600 euros or is it more? This really is one of the nicest leathers I have seen. I am interested in knowing how stiff the leather is as well.

Price is more than that. As far as the stiffness goes, the leather looks thinner than an other horse hide i've had from Wested, we'll soon find out!

The Canadian climate is another reason I picked this one.

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:30 pm

Here is a quote from the Kelso website regarding cost.

A pair of boots made with this leather costs a thousand euros, but we priced our jackets far below that, as an introductory offer, even though one needs at least 4 times the quantity of leather used in boots to make a jacket.

Take advantage of the current low price and buy a Victory horsehide jacket now. The normal price level for this quality leather jacket would be in the range of Eur 1500-2000 and that is where it will go eventually.

Chris

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:36 pm

hi,
Victory horse leather thickness is 3oz

it's not stiff at all
it's very comfortable to wear

It's the highest quality leather there is. The best in the world.
Much better than Ralph Lauren etc. By far better. High end material, best of the best.
The tannery that it comes from is not into mass production. It's all about quality.
We know of one brand that uses the same tannery. They sell their jackets for Eur 2000 and above.
I don't blame them.

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:39 pm

Thanks Afalzon.
What is the current cost for the Relic Hunter in the Victory Hide?
Thanks!

Chris

CM · Post by CM » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:54 am

3 oz - that's a really heavy, thick leather. I'm sure its very nice but I'm out. Anything heavier than 2.5 oz I find uncomfortable to wear. I'd love to hear how how much the thing weighs.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:14 am

3oz is 1.1mm
That's not heavy, it's a 0.1 to 0.2 mm heavier than lambskin

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:21 am

I believe the question is what is the actual physical weight of a finished jacket? It can appear just a bit over in weight, but increases expotentially as the amount and size of material is used to complete an item.

I've seen them range from 3 pounds to 5 pounds finish weight for cowhide and horsehide leather jackets, with goatskin and lambskin jackets falling below 3 pounds in finish weight.

So, how much physical weight will a person be wearing on their shoulders with a finished Kelso HH Victory Indy jacket?

Are we talking 'Kevlar' or 'bullet proof boiler plate'? Both resist bullet penetration, but one is WAY heavier than the other in comparison....so there's heavy, and then, there's 'heavy'.

Regards! Michaelson

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:39 am

Heavier than lamb, but does not classify as "heavy"
Classifies as normal. I 've seen much heavier.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:34 am

Just about EVERYTHING is heavier than lamb other than cloth.

I classify 'normal' as being around 4 pounds in physical weight, but that's just been my experience.

My Wings 30th anniversery lambskin it just shy of 3 pounds, and my Wings HH jacket is right at 5 pounds, but it also has insulation, so I'm guessing that adds at least a half pound to the total.

Regards! M

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:42 am

Hoping I can get a cost figure on this jacket please.

From what I can tell Michaelson, their answer regarding weight would suggest that it falls somewhere between a bread box and a small pony.

C

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:04 pm

If memory serves me right, Wested sourced leather from both Italian and Greek tanneries, and the ones I remember were absolutely fantastic offerings. I wonder if their HH came from the same source. The weight range was about the same as the above mentioned Wings offerings.

Regards! M

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:14 pm

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:20 pm

Actually Greece exports most of its lambskin to Italy.
Greek tanneries produce lambskin but not horse. (They are not even aware that horsehide exists).

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:24 pm

Interesting info on the leather back to Italy! Thanks!

Regards! M

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:11 pm

...So where are these jackets made and how much do they cost?

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:04 pm

they are made in Heaven and cost a fraction of what they should

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:16 pm

Several people have asked what the going rate is for this jacket. Both here and in the vendor section. Why hold that info back?

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:17 pm

afalzon wrote:they are made in Heaven and cost a fraction of what they should

Tennessee? These jackets are made in Tennessee? You said Heaven so I just assumed....
Actually I ask because I try to buy U.S. made where I can. Clarification would be appreciated.
thanks!

CM · Post by CM » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:25 am

afalzon wrote:

Is that a joke or a distraction?

Actually you still haven't answered the question - What does the jacket weigh (let's just say a size 40 to 42)? 3 oz is very heavy and I have dealt with leather jackets for 30 years. It's motor bike thick leather. In fact, your classic Brimaco and Brooks leather bike jackets are often just 2.5 oz. In fact, 3 oz is the weight of Aero horse hide. Having said that - I'm sure the Victory horse is a lovely hide that actually wears like an adventurer's jacket - not something you can say of lamb.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:14 am

Canada Jones wrote:
afalzon wrote:they are made in Heaven and cost a fraction of what they should
Tennessee? These jackets are made in Tennessee? You said Heaven so I just assumed....
Actually I ask because I try to buy U.S. made where I can. Clarification would be appreciated.
thanks!

She's a nice place but not that nice

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:19 am

That was a joke.
This leather is not heavy. 3oz is not heavy.
There are motorbike jackets much heavier than this.

A Victory horse jacket is very comfortable to wear. Not stiff at all. (No need to wear in bed for 3 years to break in).

A size 40 jacket, together with the shipping box weighs 4.2 pounds.

The price of Relic Hunter in Victory horse is Eur 900

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:43 pm

Eur 900 is about $1165.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:01 pm

What makes it superior to the Horsehide being offered by Wild Bill for 600 Euros? Also can you confirm where this jacket is being made?
thanks
Gary

CM · Post by CM » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:24 pm

afalzon wrote:That was a joke.
This leather is not heavy. 3oz is not heavy.
There are motorbike jackets much heavier than this.

A Victory horse jacket is very comfortable to wear. Not stiff at all. (No need to wear in bed for 3 years to break in).

A size 40 jacket, together with the shipping box weighs 4.2 pounds.

The price of Relic Hunter in Victory horse is Eur 900

Interesting. My size 42 Aero in 3 oz hourse hide is 6 pounds. So your horse must have very different qualities. Your horse weighs more like goat. My 42 Wested in goat weighed close to 4 pounds.

You guys need to make a half-belt in that horse hide.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:56 pm

Have you read that thread on the other forum that Aero defrauded its customers by selling them steer instead of horse?

Perhaps leather is losing or gaining weight during tanning, no idea really.

We have 2 half-belt jackets in the pipeline.
They are both copies of original 1940s jackets and one of them was worn by a fanous actor in a movie.

Obi Sean Kenobi · Post by **Obi Sean Kenobi** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:05 pm

The leather is beautiful. The jacket is beautiful. That much is
Undeniable.

However, this offering, as with all the Kelso offerings, is so far beyond the reach of the average leather jacket enthusiast or Indy fan in terms of pricing as to render them irrelevant.

If there were some kind of provenance, maybe.

For this price though, I could buy a few Westeds, in amazing skins, custom made just for me.

For the guys who can swing this price, good for you. Keep posting pics - I love to see them!

Regards,
Sean

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:10 pm

Canada Jones wrote:What makes it superior to the Horsehide being offered by Wild Bill for 600 Euros? Also can you confirm where this jacket is being made?
thanks
Gary

Gary, I think it's Greece--but until "afalzon" stops ignoring or evading your questions, I'm not sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are not made in the U.S.A. (since you had expressed interest in products made in the U.S.A.)

Also, you might want to do some searches on here and elsewhere (e.g. Fedora Lounge) regarding their public relations (such as posts by their representatives) and customer service.

Best wishes,
Nebraska S.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:22 pm

Gary, I think it's Greece--but until "afalzon" stops ignoring or evading your questions, I'm not sure. You might want to do some searches on here regarding their public relations and customer service.

Yes, I can confirm that they're made in Athens, Greece. Sorry, I kept forgeting to answer that.
They are however made by Italian hands. Alessandro, our artisan is Italian as are the leathers we use. Everything else is imported from USA and UK, down to the shipping boxes.

Please note also that if you buy Victory horse jackets we guarantee your satisfaction, or your money back, including shipping costs. Zero risk purchase.

Pyrodigital · Post by **Pyrodigital** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:11 pm

A little outside my price range ( I would if I could, though

), but what is the difference between this & the regular, premium horse? And the goat, for that matter.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:15 am

I 'll try to explain the difference...

When we first made the Relic Hunter in premium horsehide thought
"wow, this is the best leather we have ever seen" and it really was

When we made the first Relic Hunter in Victory horse,
we thought that the premium horsehide jacket in comparison was.... poor

Can you afford the best car in the world? No
Can you afford the best house in the world? No
Can you afford the best (looking) wife/girlfriend in the world? No

Well for only Eur 900 I believe you can afford the best jacket in the world. Don't you?
This is your opportunity to get the best for yourself for once.

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:02 am

So, is the difference in the portion of the actual hide used or is the Victory hide subjected to a superior tanning process? That's what I'm wondering.

I mean, the hide you initially offered had to be pretty tough, right? And, is it still available?

Beautiful jacket, man.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:27 am

here's a comparison of the two leathers

http://www.billkelsomfg.com/3d/scan0080.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Left Victory horse, right premium horse

The picture is not very enlightening.
If you see the complete jackets you understand immediately which one is superior.

Both the Victory horse and premium horsehide are vegetable tanned at different tanneries.
The difference is that the Victory horse is higher grade material.
They are both tough. The premium horse is a little stiffer and that gives the impression of being tougher.

We have very little premium horsehide in stock and it's doubtful if we will re-stock.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:58 pm

First - thanks for answering my question about where the jacket is made. Second, I agree with Obi Sean Kenobi about the price being beyond the average buyer. It might be the best in the world but I am sure the cheaper horsehide you used to use would never wear out either and is probably a great leather in its own right (and price range). I like that your company offers lots of choice of leathers so why not offer both horsehides? Does this mean that all of your horsehide A2s will now only be made in the victory leather and thereby raising the price on those jackets hundreds as well? If my math is correct the new leather is 50% more expensive and is a game changer when it comes to who can afford the jacket.
Thanks again for fielding our questions!
PS The photo was very helpful and did a good job showing the different grain in the leathers.

Pyrodigital · Post by **Pyrodigital** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:14 pm

Are you guys still planning to keep goat as an option? And how does it compare to both the horse & the lamb? I assume tougher than lamb & maybe (feeling) a bit lighter than horse?

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:13 pm

In the original Bill Kelso thread, I posted photos of the Lamb and Goat.
Here they are again.
I found the goat to be much stiffer than the lamb.
The lamb is on the left ... the lighter color.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:27 am

Goat is sure tougher than the lamb.
We are in the market for new goatskin.
We are looking for very grainy and the color will be dark russet like the Navy's original M-422 and G-1 jackets.
So the color will not be very Indy.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:11 am

Canada Jones wrote:? Does this mean that all of your horsehide A2s will now only be made in the victory leather and thereby raising the price on those jackets hundreds as well?

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:42 am

No, there will be another horsehide called "Class 13 horsehide" which we are developing now and it will be cheaper than Victory.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:08 pm

Will that HH be available for the Relic Hunter?

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:14 pm

yes it will

Pyrodigital · Post by **Pyrodigital** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:27 pm

Good to hear. When I start getting more work, I think I might go for a BK!