Buying an Expo, but found a thrift shop distressing victim

[billyjack669]

Ok, two completely different subjects in one spectacular first post.
I'm in the process of ordering a custom fitted goat Gibson & Barnes Expedition jacket. I got measured and sent the form in, got a call back from Joe in sales and have been working with him on that. I asked for the hidden snap at the bottom of the storm flap, but no other customizations. (Any suggestions?) My only real question is the sleeve length. My sleeve (from back of neck to cuff) is 36.5". Joe said they don't do half inches, so I said go to 37. Then I read on a post here that leather likes to shrink in the arms due to bending at the elbow. Should we go 38" instead of 37"?

2nd Subject: this weekend I found a $20 "close enough" (for an 80s party) brown jacket with open cuffs and just a little bit of elastic at the bottom that I thought I'd make a victim for artificial distressing. I ran this jacket through the washer, hung it up for an hour, got impatient and put it in the dryer for about 20 minutes, pulled on the sleeves and back, and let it hang dry the rest of the night. The pits are still wet this morning, but it's looking a lot better. It lost a lot of gloss and the leather looks a lot grainier. Anyway, I have a bottle of Lexol and was wondering: what about spraying it directly on a jacket? I normally spray a cloth and rub on, but wanted to blast it with the spray then wipe it around.

Also, I've been reading about eraser distressing the seams... Is that the current "approved" method or is there something else people are doing now? Do you use a pencil eraser or a big rectangular one?

Thanks everyone, I've been lurking since activated and thought it was finally time to say "HI" and ask for some advice.


BillyJack

[Michaelson]

Should we go 38" instead of 37"?

BillyJack

37" should work fine. It does ride up with wear at the elbow, but you don't have go to extremes to satisfy the extra required leather.

Regards! Michaelson

[donovan]

Hi, as an expo owner,i always think it could do with a heavier guage zipper.

[billyjack669]

No luck on the heavier gauge zipper. He said it wasn't available on that jacket in order "to keep it as authentic as possible and true to the period"... ah, the 80s were a different time....

[Michaelson]

That's a new one. It's a custom order and YOUR call as to its 'authenticity'. If that were the case, they should have denied your request for the snap on the storm flap. There WAS none on the Raiders jacket, which is what they're duplicating.

They've put them on for me on request. Not sure why they're taking that tact now. You're ordering a custom jacket, for Pete's sake.

Odd indeed.

Sorry to hear that, but the original zips are strong....but that reason doesn't hold water what so ever when it's been past practice to put on what ever zip they have on hand on request for a custom order.

Regards! Michaelson

[billyjack669]

I wonder if I should name drop or ask to speak with the sales manager? Honestly he hasn't even emailed a quote yet. He wanted my cc info first (which I thought was odd since they aren't charging it yet, and I only have a guess as to the price...)

[Texan Scott]

I got really lucky around the time that I ordered the Exp. in HH, and found that they had an Exp. in goatskin already pre-made as a 44R. It fit like a custom jacket. You know, the way they engineer the G&B is second to none, and always have. They install 3 elastic strips spanning one action pleat to another, in between the liner and the leather, in order to keep them from flaring open. The liner is a mirror image of the action back and pleats config. They appear on the second hand market from time to time for quite the bargain, often second, third and fourth hand, even.

The pencil distressing was sort of my invention. I was looking for a way to distress a jacket without putting the thread in serious jeopardy, as thread and sandpaper do not mix...well, not for long, anyway. It works fine with naked leather, such as cowhide, but I doubt seriously you would have much result with the G&B goatskin, for instance.

[Michaelson]

I wonder if I should name drop or ask to speak with the sales manager? Honestly he hasn't even emailed a quote yet. He wanted my cc info first (which I thought was odd since they aren't charging it yet, and I only have a guess as to the price...)

That's what I'd do..... Ask for a manager if you're really wanting the stronger zipper. I just heard they have a lot of new folks in customer service, so the fellow you're dealing with may not know his job yet.

Regards! M

[twistedotter]

I think 37" will be fine for the sleeves. I have had my original Expo for 5+ years now and there really hasn't been that much natural shortening of the sleeves.

The elastic internal straps are a great addition to keep the action pleats tamed. However, keep in mind that if you decide to do the wash/dry/shrink process, you might shrink the jacket enough for the straps to no longer really work. That's what I did and now my action pleats are "blown out". I don't really care any more and I've worn the jacket to the point that everything just sort of falls correctly now, but I can tell the straps aren't doing a thing.

As for Lexol, well, there are many opinions about the proper application, but I usually just spray directly on the jacket and wipe. I don't go overboard with the amount and I've never had a problem.

As for distressing, I've used the fine grit sandpaper "sponges" that you can get at Home Depot or Lowe's. I suppose you could also use those "magic eraser" sponges that they sell at the grocery store for removing stains on walls, counters, tile, etc. I just think it would take a lot longer to get the desired effect. I played around with this quite a bit when I first got into the Indy jackets. The Expo I wear all the time now, though, is naturally distressed (lamb) by simply wearing it A LOT and I couldn't be happier. Again, this is a preference thing. Just be careful of the stitching. That's definitely not something you want to ruin.

Good luck with the new jacket! I'm up to 4 Expos now and I love each and every one of them.

[billyjack669]

Ok, I called and left a VM for the sales supervisor, George. I told him what was up and got a call back about 2 hours later from Joe, saying that he talked with his supervisor. He talked to the tailor and she thought they "might be able to put the zipper from the G-1 on the Expedition, but it might make the storm flap stick up." He also said they were going to charge for the alteration to 37" on the jacket. Still no word on how much these alterations will cost though. I'm starting to wonder just how "custom" the jacket is. Are there multiple-tiered "custom" levels at G&B? Am I at tier 1, off the rack + options sewn in? Or are they actually making a jacket for me? If so, why is there an alteration charge? Getting confused...

[billyjack669]

Update: Talked directly to George. Now I'm hearing there's a 250.00 fee for made-to-measure, although when I talked to Joe he said something to the effect of $39.00 extra for sending my measurements in. Starting to think twice about this. He read the quote to me and it's a 48R jacket with 48L sleeves... So, that's not really made to my measurements, but sounds like a jacket made from "parts" they already have. Now I'm starting to feel like a dick for all the calling and end-run to George. Frustrated. Guess I'll wait for the emailed quote. Thanks for the support everyone!

:/

[Michaelson]

No, the $250 charge has been the standard charge for a made to measure jacket, and has been that way for quite a while.

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

IMO would be best to get a Standard size Tall, if the sleeves would be long enough. I think there is a minimal charge to alter sleeves only. Save you some money? If the sleeves are long enough for Tundy, they would be long enough for anyone, I recon..?

[Michaelson]

Sounds to me like there's confusion at the customer service level of whether your talking about a true 'made to measure' or just an altered jacket, as suggested by by Tex above. Those are (or at least were) two different animals.

With the big turn over of personnel at G&B in the past year, it's hard to say what's 'normal' these days.

Regards! M

[billyjack669]

Guess I'll have to wait for that elusive quote before I know for sure... Michaelson, why don't you call down there for me and get them sorted out?

[Michaelson]

Well, since Dave Marshall left the company, I'm as puzzled as you are at how they work anymore.

Regards! M

[billyjack669]

Ugh. I finally got the quote. $826 before shipping. As I told Joe, I'm not gonna be able to swing that.
So, I was told that it's a $250 charge to do the sleeve alteration, and the zipper and snap were $39.00. I "argued" that it's not really "made-to-measure" if they're simply putting 48L sleeves on a 48R jacket. Last week he told me they couldn't do 36.5 (my measurement) sleeves. Really? Especially for a 250 dollar charge, you can't do a 36.5" sleeve? Wow. I asked him if they weren't just taking two already made pieces and stitching them together. He told me they don't keep Expeditions (even the constituent pieces) in stock and each one is made when ordered.
This particular jacket is not "made-to-measure" by any stretch. My measurements were simply compared to the regular jacket and given a thumbs up.
It's simply a "frankenjacket". Standard "regular" Body to Standard "tall/long" Sleeves.

He must be new, because at one point he said it'd be 250 dollars even if we just put the hidden snap on. I told him that wasn't what he said last week... (39 bucks for customizations + cost of parts). He continued arguing until he pulled up my signed "return waiver" and proved himself wrong.

I've read so much about how great these jackets are. I was honestly looking forward to the ordering process. I cannot believe the pre-sale service I've gotten! I got a bad feeling when I had to sign the waiver AND give them a credit card number before they'd send a quote! The communication has been sporadic as well. Not at all like I've read while researching. I recall one thread where the user bragged about their customer service: "9 emails in 1 day about a jacket" etc. Not in my case.

So I'm thinking about looking elsewhere and would like your suggestions. My specs are: A functional IJ jacket. Preferably something for the fall/winter/spring. Hidden storm flap snap. Dark brown goat/cowhide would be my choice. SA isn't a necessity. Having a jacket "they'll fight over when you're dead" (to steal a phrase) is what I'm after.


Thanks everyone,

BillyJack

[gladd96]

I'd recommend not bothering with hidden storm flaps. In my opinion they offer little in terms of functionality and if you find otherwise just have non hidden snaps added after the fact. Really the snaps only serve a function in very windy conditions and the non cuffed sleeves and pleats kind of make an IJ jacket a poor choice for windy conditions period. For windy days I always go with my G-1.

I'd recommend US Wings. I have several of their jackets and have been satisfied with their construction and durability. Especially the made in the USA ones. The only real thing G&B has on them is numerical sized jackets vs. S, M, L, XL sizing so if you are super picky about fit and fall I between sizes you might be out of luck. Of course they have a good return policy so the worst you'd be out was shipping charges if you decided you just didn't like the fit.

Also I believe most jackets can have the sleeves extended by a tailor with out too much of a problem so unless you're needing an extension of 3" plus I 'd see how the stock sleeves hitst you and go with an alteration after the fact if needed.

[Michaelson]

I hate to see that G&B has fallen so far off the mount, as they were the top end of jacket makers in terms of customer service and top drawer product. Their guarantee is still the best in the business, but my GOODNESS that horror story would turn anyone away on their first try to get a jacket that fit.

I'm very sorry to read this, but like I said, they've had such a turn over lately, even laying off veteran production folks, I'm not ALL that surprised to hear things have taken such a turn.

I agree on the Wings choice, including leaning toward the 'Signature' Series, as they're all made by Schott. They're well within the price range too, and tough as nails. Once you figure out the best sizing for your use, you'll be a happy camper with the product.

I'm an advocate for storm flap snaps, as anyone who's been in any kind of high wind can attest, an unsecured storm flap will beat you senseless.

Good luck in your quest. You should have had a great experience with G&B. I'm sorry you didn't.

Regards! Michaelson

[Canasta]

This is really disappointing to hear. I love my GB and have thought about getting another with longer sleeves, as I have always felt they were a little short. At one time Ana Lopez, from GB told me that putting the XT sleeves on a 44t jacket would be $12.00, but then it became difficult to get that clarified.
For nearly the same cost I could buy the BK in horsehide.
I am on a bit of a weight loss program and my wife said when I meet my goal, she'll pay for a new jacket ... even custom if I want. I've got a lot of thinking to do.

C

[billyjack669]

I'd recommend US Wings. I have several of their jackets and have been satisfied with their construction and durability.

I agree on the Wings choice, including leaning toward the 'Signature' Series, as they're all made by Schott. They're well within the price range too, and tough as nails. Once you figure out the best sizing for your use, you'll be a happy camper with the product.

I'm very interested in the USW jacket now that I have your suggestions. I looked at their spec chart for the indy series jackets and seem to fall between L and XL.

Here are my "important" (?) measurements:

Chest 49
Shoulders 21
Sleeve 36.5

Also, any suggestions on hide? I want something that will work fall/winter/spring.


Thanks so much guys!

BillyJack

[Michaelson]

Lambskin or goatskin in Signature Series would be my recommendation.

The cowhide is great, but heavy. It's best suited for Fall/Winter wear, where the goatskin falls between the lamb and cowhide in terms of weight.

The lambskin works great for a 3 season jacket, as when it's cold, you just layer.

Which ever size you choose, though, do NOT remove ANY tags what so ever until you're absolutely satisfied with the fit. They won't take back anything that has had a tag removed. Just an FYI.

Regards! M

[Bigfoot]

I have a US Wings USA made Cowhide I picked up from a member here, It is heavy but durable. Even though it is about 3rd hand it is a great jacket. Watch the Cairo Bazaar here, an excellent one pops up from time to time.

[billyjack669]

I just got a reply to my sizing questions from SARGE HIMSELF! How's that for customer service?! (Thanks Michaelson for your assistance throughout this process.) Now to flip a coin between lamb and goat.




Oh, and my distressing victim? Tougher than nails. I rubbed and rubbed with steel wool and it's barely put a dent in the seam color. I am going to reverse course and try some acetone. I tried goof off (just to goof off) and it took out the color variation but made it darker. Brick wall seems to distress it quite well. I might try "half a crab walk" on my back to distress it further.

[Michaelson]

I just got a reply to my sizing questions from SARGE HIMSELF! How's that for customer service?! (Thanks Michaelson for your assistance throughout this process.) Now to flip a coin between lamb and goat.

[Texan Scott]

Late to the discussion, but I'd be tempted to simply order a Tall. The Regular and Tall sizes are not that much different around the torso, then you could possibly find a leather alterations person to do a few sizing tweaks to the sleeves if necessary. The $39 for the hidden snap in consistent with my experiences in the past, on two different jackets. Usually with anything that looks like "customization" they kick the price up another $250 and call it, "made to measure" and have you sign a form to that effect. I'd recommend Drew as a salesperson that has always been helpful and willing to work with you. It would be possible to get a Tall size and pay the extra $39 for the snap, if that option is still open? If not then USW makes a good jacket for the money.

[gladd96]

I'd recommend US Wings. I have several of their jackets and have been satisfied with their construction and durability.

I agree on the Wings choice, including leaning toward the 'Signature' Series, as they're all made by Schott. They're well within the price range too, and tough as nails. Once you figure out the best sizing for your use, you'll be a happy camper with the product.

I'm very interested in the USW jacket now that I have your suggestions. I looked at their spec chart for the indy series jackets and seem to fall between L and XL.

Here are my "important" (?) measurements:

Chest 49
Shoulders 21
Sleeve 36.5

Also, any suggestions on hide? I want something that will work fall/winter/spring.


Thanks so much guys!

BillyJack

In my opinion just about all leather works for fall/winter/spring. I've never noticed one hide being substantially warmer than another. Now the thickness of a particular hide can have a slight effect but apart from a few of the very thin cowhide and lamb generally most leather jackets fall within a very similar range of warmth.

My favorite Wings hide is the striated lamb skin on my Legend jacket. It's very thick and luxurious with all kinds of gnarly character. Of course it's lamb and not really well suited for hazard duty but it's thickness does seem to help the durability a little. Also it seems to pick up natural distressing with ease so it's a great choice if you want to have that natural worn in look with out going to extremes or waiting decades. I see they are offering the collectors edition cowhide, the same cowhide leather used in the CS jacket. I own a Nowak CS jacket and I absolutely love the leather. It's fairly tough and has a nice weathered look to it. it's a very rich warm brown which isn't favored by those preferring the darker appearance of the jacket in the films. I've never owned an Indy jacket in goat but I love my goat G-1. It's very tough but just a tad bit too rigid for my taste in an Indy jacket... granted it's my only goat jacket so perhaps others are made to be less rigid.

Probably what I'd do is just look at the close ups of all the different leather and go with the one you like the look of best... unless durability is your prime consideration. If it is just order the goat.

[billyjack669]

I purchased the US Wings Signature Indy in Goat. Thanks for your help everyone!



BillyJack

[Michaelson]

Bravo!

[FLATHEAD]

I purchased the US Wings Signature Indy in Goat. Thanks for your help everyone!



BillyJack

What size did you end up getting?

Flathead

[indyexpat]

Hi flathead, do you have any pictures? I am literally crying out for a jacket and have read a fair bit about the goat. There are so many varieties so many options. I've looked at Novak, Todd (2012), Magnoli and Wested and Wings. The truth, my Todd just doesn't sit right on me. The collar is tight round my neck and it doesn't seem to fit well. I welcome any suggestions from seasoned posters for any 'currently available' jackets. Also if you have several and can suggest where fit alter that may be helpful. I have broad shoulders and a thick neck.

[Michaelson]

You might want to start a new thread with your questions, as they will just get lost in this thread.

Regards! Michaelson

[billyjack669]

Sarge recommended an XL. I will get to try it on when it gets here Tuesday. As Michaelson suggests, I will not remove any tags (in case it needs a return).


BillyJack

[billyjack669]

Just got the jacket in! The collar rolls weird on the left (my right) side. Question: Is the collar beyond "fixing" by me? Suggestions, oh leather masters!

PICS!







Thanks so much guys! If this needs to be a new thread, I'll create it.


BillyJack

[Texan Scott]

A few options are at your fingertips. Simply wear it and break it in naturally. You can knead the collar and shape it with your hands, or use hot water on the collar, shape it and let it dry as you want it. With each of my Exp. goatskin jackets, I've given them a good hot water rinse (shower) and thrown them in the dryer, shrinks a little and the leather becomes more pliable.

[Indiana Jeff]

No worries with the collar, it'll relax with wear. If you are otherwise happy with the fit, then start kneading the leather a bit to break it in/soften it. You can go the water route as Texas Scott suggested, but I've never messed with water/dryers.


Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Michaelson]

The only thing I'd add is you can also walk in a rain storm and accomplish the same thing.

VERY nice jacket. Once it starts molding itself to YOUR body shape, you will be even more happy with it.

Regards! Michaelson

[billyjack669]

Oh no, it's going to start looking like a swollen wooden barrel?



Fatsiana Jones out!

[Michaelson]

[Texan Scott]

Then of course there is the application of Lexol or Picard leather treatment. Forgot to mention that.