Finalizing Wested order research... UPDATE: order RECEIVED!!

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:17 pm

After muddling through a couple decades with a well-worn (out) Disney/Cooper jacket, it's finally time for me to place an order for a custom-fitted, screen-accurate Wested Indiana Jones jacket (the Raiders of the Lost Ark version).

I've exhaustively-researched the details and came up with the following list. I'd like advice on what details are already standard in existing jacket patterns (so I don't bore Peter or irritate him with obvious minutia), what details are must-do's that I absolutely need to point out to him to get them done properly, and how best to present the info and place my order.

If the bulk of these details are already standard in either the 'Raiders' or 'ROLA' styles, let me know and then what details I'd still need to mention.

Or, if none of this matters because he only goes by the options offered in the order process, let me know.

Thanks in advance for your educated input and advice.

(It looks like I have to put the list in multiple posts since the text window is not scrolling properly. Or perhaps I'm more locquacious than the site prefers.)

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:29 pm

- I'd like to get the 'Authentic Brown Soft Goatskin' - what option is closest to this, since it's not worded this specific way on the website?
- Do I need to request the 'strongest thread in the shop'?
- 5-gauge Antique Brass zipper w/small zipper pull - stop 1" above hem of jacket to keep the zipper pull under the storm flap
- double-stitched X-box side straps with (black? antique brass?) 'tri-glide' buckles - 8.75" long x 1" wide
- Underarm gussets (yes)
- Cotton (silesia?) lining in body, satin lining in sleeves
- piped inside pocket 'with less leather' plus second inside pocket (for my own personal preference)
- hidden snap at bottom of storm flap
- storm flap size one and one-half inches wide
- "Holt Collar & Yoke" (?)
- bi-swing pleat one and one-half inches deep
- elastic band between pleats (is this under the liner across the lower back like inside my Disney/Cooper jacket?)
- 80's (slim) cut / 919 / CKing pattern (?)
- "Holt-style pockets and flaps" (?) (or perhaps "Platon-spec pockets?)
- sleeve seam and yoke seam misaligned 1", sleeve seam below yoke seam (?)
- 'WESTED' standard tag, _not_ 'Leather Concessioners' (I know the history behind the name, but I've wanted a real, true Wested IJ jacket for years, and I'd personally prefer the actual Wested tag, not the LC tag)
- should I get the leather facing or not? It seems like the zipper will wear out the lining MUCH sooner without the leather facing, just as it did on my Disney/Cooper jacket... I want this jacket to last a few decades, but just how visually intrusive IS the leather facing?
(more in next post...)

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:37 pm

(continued)
- leather collar stand (as opposed to what?) - also, how tall? Is this what the 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" or 3" measurement refers to? Is this the height of the flattened-out collar from the seam to the top edge in the back? Or the height of the folded-over collar at the back center?
- left-hand zipper is screen-accurate but opposite US standard - is this a huge pain to get used to? Or does anyone in the US even notice it's reversed of what we're used to?
- "collar to join storm flap half-way between zipper and edge" - is this standard now, or too nitpicky and will get ignored or cause irritation in the order process?
- "back panel should extend all the way out to the sleeve seam" - same wondering as above?
- slightly-tapered sleeves
- no side vent stitch (where exactly would this stitch be, what would it do, and what is it's function vs. not having it?)
- no shoulder pads(?) (shoulder pads? In an Indy jacket??)
- NOT 'chrome-tanned' (?)
- include hand-warmer pockets (personal preference)
- inside name tag (?)
- what does the term 'grail' refer to in connection with pocket options? or did I misread something somewhere?

O.K., that's the end of the list I have... any help and experienced input would be appreciated. I can't afford to have to do this two or three times, and I can't afford to return it for adjustments - I need to try to get it right the first time...

Post by **Holt** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:49 pm

seeing an order like this brings fuzzy feelings to my heart as today all we do is order Hero's, TN's and BK's..

I love speccing out jackets...

ah, the good old days!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm

One thing you should know is that the Raiders and RoLA jackets fit more like off the rack jackets than the Hero pattern which appears to incorporate all the quirks of the original film jacket. Which do you prefer? The modernized (Raiders-RoLA) will not drape like the more correct pattern to film, which is the Hero. If you order the Hero, then you don't need to spec it, other than size, sleeve and back lengths.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:37 pm

So the Hero version pretty much has all the specific details that all the COW guys wanted Peter to incorporate over the years? And if there's something specific, like a bottom snap on the storm flap, that may or may not be standard to the Hero style, it's cool to ask Peter to add it and it's no big deal?

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:39 pm

Holt wrote:seeing an order like this brings fuzzy feelings to my heart as today all we do is order Hero's, TN's and BK's..

I love speccing out jackets...

ah, the good old days!

I know, my good man - yours is one of the most valued inputs I was hoping to attract... your advice is greatly appreciated if you could offer it.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:46 pm

LZeitgeist wrote:So the Hero version pretty much has all the specific details that all the COW guys wanted Peter to incorporate over the years? And if there's something specific, like a bottom snap on the storm flap, that may or may not be standard to the Hero style, it's cool to ask Peter to add it and it's no big deal?

Exactly.

Forrest For the Trees · Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:00 pm

The only thing that I haven't liked about Wested's Hero jackets that I have seen posted here is the excessively long straps. Maybe that is SA for some scenes, but dang, it would drive me crazy. I'd ask for shorter straps, like we see on Nowak and Kelso versions of the Raiders jacket.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:54 am

Having done the same as Zeit, and indeed, used a few of the same requests he did (Thanks to Holt for a load of them again

), I still have to say that the Hero would be the jacket I'd choose..While making "your" jacket it still cool as ####, the look of the Hero is the jacket I see in the movie when I watch it...While the one I designed for myself is a great Jacket, it's too "me" to be "Raiders" like...Interestingly....The look of it makes a great jacket, and without the Raiders connection it would be high on my list of favourite jackets, but the Hero is what I go to for the Indiana Jones look now..

That, in shrunken Lamb (for the vegetable dyed colour you wanted), and with a touch or two (Not necessary in my view, but depends on your own take on the jacket) would be perfect for you I suspect...

It's a shame that the "make it yourself" trend is going down somewhat, while the plus side is we now have several stunning choices of jacket to go for all the way up and down the price range too...So..Win some and lose some...

I'd vote for the Hero with the touches you want to push through especially asked for..

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:13 am

OK, so I guess I can skip the details like the 'Holt collar and yoke', 'Holt/Platon pockets & flaps' and the 'back panel to sleeve seam' details since they've been incorporated into the 'Hero' design... right?

What details ARE incorporated into the 'Hero' and what details that COW members prefer do I still need to point out?

I'm going to go with the goatskin as I think the lamb is better for 'dress' jackets than 'adventuring' jackets and mine is going to be worn daily. Is the goat 'chrome-tanned' and shiny? Do I need to go another route to keep it from looking 'plastic-y'?

Were there any pitfalls in the measurement process? How did you guys get the measurements that ended up fitting you properly?

What about the left zipper/right zipper question above?

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:18 pm

Regarding measurements, I honestly can't remember how I decided on them, other than I already had some Wested Indy jackets to reference when ordering the Hero.

Wearing Indy Jackets in general has made me ambidextrous with regards to zippers. Left or right, I just look for the pull. No problem!

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:33 pm

Just looking at Wested's site, and the Hero doesn't have anyplace to include specific detail requests, whereas the Custom ROLA does... ack. Maybe I should just man up and send an order in and go for it. I'm probably overthinking this due to the years of research, details, questions, answers, disappointments and successes posted here...

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:17 pm

I think the pattern of Wested's Hero is spot on. You really can't go wrong.
The only consideration should be the leather used; nothing too thick and heavy or you'd lose the look of the movie jacket.

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:33 am

I agree, the new Wested Hero pattern is about as close to SA as a Wested can get.
The ONLY modification I would recommend is to have them shorten the straps about 1.5 to 2 inches. (I had mine cut down after I got it. Much better now)

Here's my Hero in soft goat....

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:18 pm

I know we are on the subject of Wested, but if you ever need a good backup, Todd's current Standard jacket is a really good choice for $200.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:24 pm

Yeah, before this gets derailed, I'm only considering Wested for the same reason that I bought my David Morgan bullwhip back in '94... a replica is nice, but while I can get THE thing from THE man, I'm gonna... B-)

I guess I just need to draft an e-mail to Peter and ask if specific elements like leather facings and bottom storm flap snap addition can be added/altered on the Hero, or if they'd rather I got a Custom ROLA with the various elements included but made of the soft goat.

Currently waiting for leather samples to show up in my mailbox...

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:06 pm

My opinion is to get the Hero in soft goat and not make any changes to it. It is pretty much perfect. It's not particularly shiny but it is chrome tanned. If you want a veg tanned get the shrunken lamb, it has a 'rustic' look, very reminiscent of the flying wing sequences.

Don't add the snap, it really isn't necessary. IMO.

Don't add the facings. Wested probably won't alter the Hero pattern to do that anyway and it spoils the drape IMO.

Don't swap over the zipper, it is screen accurate the way it is. You'll get used to it. It feels slightly odd at first, but you'll learn. I've been wearing a US Army tanker jacket this week as it's been below freezing and the zipper is on the opposite side to what I am used to. But seriously it is not an issue. How many times a day do do you zip up or unzip a jacket anyway?

One thing to think about, what size do you wear? Peter has noted that the smaller sizes (38-42ish) seem to get swapped out for one size down more than usual, so they probably run a little big, or the big chest size on the pattern makes a slightly smaller size preferable for many.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:21 pm

Excellent advice, all.

Not particularly worried about the left-hand zipper - figured I'd get used to it.

I'm very concerned about the lack of leather facings... doesn't the zipper prematurely wear through the liner fabric? I'm going to be making this my go-to jacket, so it is going to get a LOT of daily use.

Finally, and this IS, admittedly, a nitpick, but it is as important to me as having a David Morgan whip - I noticed that Peter mentions specifically that he puts his old 'Leather Concessionares' tag in the 'Hero' jacket. Since I'm buying a Wested, I'd like the Wested tag in it (yes, I know the history, blah blah blah). Will Peter be insulted or reluctant to put a standard Wested tag in if I request it?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:19 pm

I've not had the zipper bite into the lining on any of my jackets so have not had an issue. Wested uses quality branded zippers that are polished/smooth, I've known another maker to use sharper unpolished zips that might wear a bit differently.

I don't know if Peter will put a Wested label in, he might doesn't hurt to ask. I have a feeling that it wouldn't be too much of an issue

.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:21 pm

Go rouge and go LC!

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:57 pm

I just found a very informative thread on the filmjackets forum - I'd forgotten about that one.

Thanks for you input, everybody. My next step is to draft a note to Peter asking about the specifics and see if he steers me towards the Hero or the Custom ROLA. At least now I know what to look for and ask about.

Thanks for your help. I'll post the final order here when I make it.

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:07 pm

my take..

if I would choose between a custom rola really good specced out and the hero my choice would be the specced out rola...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:52 pm

On that level, it comes down to the pattern tweaks. Do you want the jacket to fit more like a modern jacket or according to the original, film jacket?

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:05 pm

are you asking me?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:12 pm

Author. The Raiders and RoLA patterns fit more like a modern day jacket, while the Hero incorporates most all the tweaks. If a guy can get a jacket spec'd out like he wants, then it really comes down to fit...unless they have tweaked the Raiders and RoLA patterns since?

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:18 pm

I'd like the 80's fit with the screen-accurate tweaks (like the Hero offers) but I don't want to be shut out of options I would like to add like the bottom of the zipper being raised 1", the leather facings, the bottom storm flap snap and the 'Wested' tag.

If I can get a Hero with tweaks as mentioned, then great. But if Peter will only make the Hero as-is, then I need to get a Custom ROLA.

This is why I'm thinking it's time for me to contact Peter...

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Can someone post a pic or two of what the jacket looks like (on the inside) to compare leather facings vs. no leather facings?

Does the zipper pull actually rub the liner fabric?

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Tex;

no they haven't so you'd be very lucky if they would tweak the patterns for of the shoulder fit and wide collar. etc.

Peter was so kind to tweak the whole jacket pattern for me on the raiders but I also have had a longtime friendship with him and he and I went over the specs over the phone. we worked together on it. it's very difficult for them to know exactly what you want if you just send a spec sheet and expect them to know exactly how you want it without you walking them tru it.

thats why I said, if I could choose between hero and a very good specced out jacket I'd go with the latter.

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:23 pm

LZeitgeist wrote:I'd like the 80's fit with the screen-accurate tweaks (like the Hero offers) but I don't want to be shut out of options I would like to add like the bottom of the zipper being raised 1", the leather facings, the bottom storm flap snap and the 'Wested' tag.

If I can get a Hero with tweaks as mentioned, then great. But if Peter will only make the Hero as-is, then I need to get a Custom ROLA.

This is why I'm thinking it's time for me to contact Peter...

he wont tweak the hero as from what I have learned.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:33 pm

Well, it looks like it'll be a Custom ROLA, then... at least that solves the Leather Consessionares/Wested tag issue.

So do I ask for a Custom ROLA spec'd to Hero standards and sizing plus the facings, snap, raised zipper bottom, etc.?

Cripes, I don't know anymore how much of this is overthinking it vs. how much of this is completely reasonable anymore...

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:37 pm

yes, it's seems that you are overthinking it alittle..

I wouldn't get my hopes up for a rola customized into a hero. Too much work and frankly thats why he made the hero. to have a ''SA'' jacket instead of having to go thru painfull spec sheets.

my best advice. call peter! and keep it simple.

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:42 pm

pluss another very important thing to keep in mind..

the hero have smaller armholes so if your a guy like me with broad shoulders and good biceps you'd want alittle more give in the armholes/sleeves.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:59 pm

Just rechecked the Wested site, and one deal-breaker for the Hero is there apparently isn't an option for gussets - I've got long arms and I've got to have gussets.

So, I guess it's back to a spec'd-out Custom ROLA... it's already the 80's cut but has room for the options I want to include. It mentions soft goat available for the Hero, but it just mentions straight goatskin for the ROLA... next question: are they the same, just listed differently from being entered at different times, or is there a reason the ROLA is not offered in the soft goat (which is what my research here leads me to believe is what I want)...?

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:28 pm

hero has gussets.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:39 pm

The 'HERO' Jacket

After 30 years we go back to our original 'Hero'

jacket pattern specification from which the first 'Indy' jacket was made.

Worn by 'Harrison Ford' and in the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark film.

This jacket carries the original 'Leather Concessionaires' label

and differs in fit from the modern easy fit 'Wested' Raiders jacketthat we make and sell today.

The jacket is a slim fit with no inside facings enabling the nickel zip

to go right to the bottom of the jacket but may result in a wavering effect

The collar is cut oversize so it hangs off the back neck.

The oversize shoulder width means the sleeves are set off shoulder.

they are narrower and tapered.

The inside pocket is a leather welt type

The lining is cotton silesia and we have opted fro the single antique brass side buckle.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:40 pm

Custom 'ROLA' Jacket

As worn by Harrison Ford in the 1981 film 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' this original design by Peter Botwright of 'Wested Leather'

The original Indy Jacket is handcrafted from the finest soft, Authentic (seal) Brown English lambskin. However it is also available in Authentic Brown Goatskin, Dark Brown Lambskin and soft 'Seal' Brown Cowhide.

Other colours/skins on request

Unlike the Standard raiders which has slight modification to make it durable and street wearable this 'film jacket' although equally wearable is more lightweight.

There are no inside leather facings, the body is slimmer 80's cut and the sleeves more tapered. The zip is a smaller 5 gauge antique brass or nickel and the action pleat depth is narrower with a piped inside pocket. two-way pockets, action pleats for arm movement & side vents.

Each jacket is certified as an authentic replica of the Original Film Version. Every Jacket is supplied with a Certificate of Authenticity.

Special Requests?May incur xtra charge

Gussets Yes

Zip Type Nickel No5

Ad

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:44 pm

(Please ignore the 'zip type' text and below - copied too much and window won't scroll far enough down to delete it.)

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:05 pm

For some reason, I feel compelled to reply once more...

The Hero incorporates all the pattern essentials that members have wanted for many years, including gussets. You get it all in one bang. It is Indy jacket utopia in one order. Now, if you want to spec it out the hard way, then you can do that, but the RoLA pattern is different from the Hero, as explained in the Hero thread, especially the last few pages, but hey, to each his own. Good luck in your quest. Rodger that? Over and out.

Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:08 pm

lol

don't give him a hard time Tex! remember, you were once there as well

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:10 pm

I know, I know!

My appologies to the author.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:32 pm

Texan Scott wrote:For some reason, I feel compelled to reply once more... The Hero incorporates all the pattern essentials that members have wanted for many years, including gussets. You get it all in one bang. It is Indy jacket utopia in one order. Now, if you want to spec it out the hard way, then you can do that, but the RoLA pattern is different from the Hero, as explained in the Hero thread, especially the last few pages, but hey, to each his own. Good luck in your quest. Rodger that? Over and out.

I haven't missed what you've said, but unless it's spelled out on the Wested order blank, I have no way of knowing which elements go into what style.

IS there such a list? I mean, some of you probably contributed greatly to helping Peter design the Hero.

But, if the Hero is non-alterable, then I'd have to go Custom ROLA anyway if I want facings (which is why I requested pics with and without)...

I appreciate the help, and no apologies necessary.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:49 pm

What have gussets got to do with long arms?
The Wested 'Hero' has them anyway, just like the TN Raiders jacket it's based off.
The leather facings aren't needed, period. It just messes with how the jacket hangs.
Why you'd go for the old (and wrong-looking) ROLA pattern over the much more screen-accurate
Hero is beyond me.
Compared to the new Hero, the ROLA is closer to a Last Crusade jacket than a Raiders,
and no amount of tweaks and changes will alter that.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:20 pm

I have to interject... as much as I like Wested, you do need to keep in mind that the Hero comes pretty consistent with all the details worked out reasonably well. When you throw a list of details at Wested to customize a ROLA, it can sometimes be a bit of roll of the dice whether or not everything will be to your specs.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:44 am

Kevin Anderson wrote:What have gussets got to do with long arms?
The leather facings aren't needed, period.

I've had jackets with and without gussets, and the ones with gussets fit me better. They keep the jacket from riding up around my ears if I reach for something. Besides, since the Hero has gussets and I can get the Custom ROLA with gussets, gussets are the least of my problems right now.

Can you show me WHY leather facings aren't needed? Is there some sort of buffer between the zipper and the edge of the fabric liner? I don't want the fabric to wear through prematurely when I could have easily avoided it.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:38 am

You keep mentioning the facings. Just remember the A2 jacket, probably the most famous leather jacket of them all does not have facings. The Indy jacket which borrows many items from the A2 - pockets, storm flap, etc, also went with no facings. A2's from 70 years ago are still around with no lining zipper problems.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:11 am

CM wrote:You keep mentioning the facings. Just remember the A2 jacket, probably the most famous leather jacket of them all does not have facings. The Indy jacket which borrows many items from the A2 - pockets, storm flap, etc, also went with no facings. A2's from 70 years ago are still around with no lining zipper problems.

That's a good point, but also a bold statement - no problems in 70 years? None?

I bought my Disney/Cooper jacket in October 1992. The lining lasted about 10 years before it started shredding. Another 2-3 years and it's barely 'lining' anything. And the Disney/Cooper jacket HAS leather facings. Given your claim, I should still have another 50 years with no problems. But I know otherwise from first-hand knowledge, in the EXACT environment that the Wested I order will have to endure for the next couple decades or more.

The outside, I want screen accurate. The inside I want structurally sound and long-lasting.

donovan · Post by **donovan** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:57 am

i sincerely wish you all the best in your jacket quest.i dont wish to sound to pessimistic but i cant help feeling your setting your self up for disappointment.sending a long spec sheet in to wested is something of a gamble ,how are you going to feel if one of your specs/requests is omitted ? peter has in the past stated he is not up for" long laundry lists".you may be one of the lucky ones and get all you ask-order the hero and just wear the thing and it will become 'your' jacket. just my opinion and good luck with whatever you go for.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:34 am

Jackets have come far and away from the Disney/Cooper jackets of old. Also, to expect one of the new repro. liners to last intact, much less 70 years, is setting yourself up. These jackets are not A-2's that were once produced with WWII era quality, materials and hardware, nor hides. Instead, most realize that if the jacket liner wears out, you simply send it back to have it relined, or some prefer to buy another.

In details, the Hero jacket is a great improvement over the early 90's era iteration. As to the lining, it depends on how you use the jacket. Yet, goatskin is still goatskin, cow the same. Eventually, take the plunge and order the Hero, or get the toughest made of them all, the G&B Exp. in goatskin. They guarantee their stuff for life, to the original owner.

LZeitgeist · Post by **LZeitgeist** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:50 am

Oops - double post.