Actual Raiders jacket on display the V&A

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:23 am

So is anyone else going to go the V&A museum exhibition of film clothing this October? It has the actual screen worn outfit for Raiders amongst others. Can not wait to see the actual jacket up close and in person. Don't ask me which of the many jackets used in the fim this is, but apparently its one of the first times it's ever been shown to the public. The exhibition is curated by none other than Deborah Nadoolman !

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/exhibition ... exhibition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:45 am

Very cool. Take some pics!

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:52 am

It would be cool to see a Raiders jacket but I have my doubts that it's an actual used raiders jacket. It may just as well be the entire outfit from ''Propstore'' collection on redispaly. The jacket on their display is a temple of doom jacket with raiders shirt and pants.

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:41 pm

I don't think they will let cameras in. But my phone has a camera

I'm not sure what to expect but the fact that Nadoolman is involved does get me excited. Nevertheless on Oct 20th (the day the exhibition opens) I shall report back ...

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:47 pm

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's todays article and some more photo links.

Regards! Michaelson

CM · Post by CM » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:15 am

No one ever really knows their stuff, do they? Raiders? Indy perhaps. Even if that is a film used LC jacket, I reckon many of the fan owned jackets posted here look better. And that's a nice thing. We already own the grail, we just don't know it...

BrandonA18 · Post by **BrandonA18** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Hi all,

The photos in the other thread which is linked above were taken in the Lucasfilm Archives during publicity for the IJ Blu Ray release. It is not necessarily the same costume that will appear in the V&A museum. Although of course it could be.

I can tell you that we have loaned some material to the V&A costume exhibition, but not an Indiana Jones costume. I assume the IJ costume they will have on display will be courtesy of Lucasfilm.

Looking forward to the exhibit!

Best,
Brandon Alinger
Prop Store

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:28 am

Have you heard about this?

http://www.empsfm.org/programs-plus-edu ... ision.aspx#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:07 pm

afalzon wrote:Have you heard about this?

http://www.empsfm.org/programs-plus-edu ... ision.aspx#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ewww, it's the "Kurtz" jacket

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:11 pm

kwad wrote:
afalzon wrote:Have you heard about this?

http://www.empsfm.org/programs-plus-edu ... ision.aspx#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ewww, it's the "Kurtz" jacket

Well...here I go again -- showing my igorance, but if you don't ask, you don't find out. What is a 'Kurtz' jacket? I don't recall ever hearing of this, or this term. Would you please explain? Thanks. W>

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:03 pm

Do a search and you will find your info on that jacket.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:31 pm

Holt wrote:Do a search and you will find your info on that jacket.

Thanks Holt! Did a search here and also on 'general' internet and discovered what I was wanting to know. I had just never heard or, more likely, paid attention to this 'referrence,' before. Greatly appreciated. W>

jones the whip · Post by **jones the whip** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:15 pm

Hi there,

I went to visit the Hollywood Costume Collection at the V&A this afternoon.
Nowhere does it formally state that these items were actual screen used, the focus is more on the costume designers themselves.

The Indiana Jones exhibit appears to be a representation of the "Last Crusade" costume even though a notice board beneath has "Raiders of the Lost Ark" on it.

I'ts not for me to say whether the jacket is screen used or not, however, if I were a betting man I'd say that it came off the Wested production line, fairly recently.

An emmense amount of attention has been given to the distressing of this jacket, it's almost too precise in appearance. Who ever did this work has not been very thorough with the side straps which remain largly untouched. The leather on the straps is clearly very new and still has that lustre that we jacket owners go to such lengths to eradicate.

The hat also looks very new IMHO and very poorly bashed, in fact, there was very little shape to it whatsoever. It's as if they sent for a stock HJ Poet from Swaine Adeney Brigg which arrived with an open crown and someone has attempted to put a couple of dents in it.
The hat band appears to be so new that it actually glimmers with the lighting and the felt is immaculate, not a spot on it.

That said, it is a beautiful collection and very well presented. A real taste of Hollywood for us Brits.
JTW.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:31 pm

any pictures of the jacket?

I am fairly certain that the jacket we seen on the mannequin in the article above is the LC motorcycle jacket. all stress mark matches up with the screen used one. It would litterlay be impossible to replicate it to the finest detail because when they stress the jacket they don't think about doing it. they just do. so many of the scrapes and scuffs happend by ''accident'' leaving that illusive look. replicating those marks, all of them would be very very very very very difficult.

jones the whip · Post by **jones the whip** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:03 pm

Hi buddy,

well, all I can say is if THAT'S a screen used LC jacket then Peter has got it DEAD ON.

I was standing two feet away from it and I'd swear I was looking at a Wested LC in authentic brown lamb.

Seriously!

The other interesting thing was the boots, Red Wing not Alden 405s.

You get a brief view of the costume in this vid but get ready on the pause button and don't blink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3na8qHHYLo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW photography was not permitted and the rooms in which the exhibition is housed are kept extremely dark.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 am

I'm surprised that no one has posted these images:

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:29 am

Hey, the Fight Club jacket in the background...

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:06 am

jones the whip wrote: The other interesting thing was the boots, Red Wing not Alden 405s.

Huh, they look like 405s to me.

I guess since DN was curating she used Redwings since that is what she planned to use even though we all know HF wore his 405s instead.

I wonder why they have prohibited photography?

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:11 am

Ugh, hideous CS Jacka whip

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:48 am

RedWings, eh?
Are you going off of what you saw, or the info placard on the display?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:39 pm

All the articles of clothing look authentic LC, even though he is surrounded by Raiders images. You can tell from the distressing on the back of the jacket that it is not the Kurtz. The Kurtz looks like they just took a wire brush and 'have at it'. I was trying to pinpoint which LC jacket based on the wrinkly collar and the distressing around the right cuff...?

Could it be this jacket? http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2995948800/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Similiar markings here: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2785707776/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jones the whip · Post by **jones the whip** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:50 pm

ShanghaiJack wrote:
jones the whip wrote: The other interesting thing was the boots, Red Wing not Alden 405s.
Huh, they look like 405s to me. I guess since DN was curating she used Redwings since that is what she planned to use even though we all know HF wore his 405s instead.

I wonder why they have prohibited photography?

The rooms in which the collection is being shown are really darkly lit and the costumes themselves highlighted with special lighting, apart from possible copyright issues, if folks had been taking loads of flash pictures it would have been very distracting.

kwad wrote:RedWings, eh?
Are you going off of what you saw, or the info placard on the display?

When I first looked at the boots I did'nt think they looked like Alden's, there was no layering to the soles, just one single piece. Then I looked up at the screen above and it showed an image of the boots stating "Red Wing ~ bought in Los Angeles". The boots, like the jacket, were very over distressed, like someone had taken an electric sanding tool to them.

Texan Scott wrote:All the articles of clothing look authentic LC, even though he is surrounded by Raiders images. You can tell from the distressing on the back of the jacket that it is not the Kurtz. The Kurtz looks like they just took a wire brush and 'have at it'. I was trying to pinpoint which LC jacket based on the wrinkly collar and the distressing around the right cuff...?

Could it be this jacket? http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2995948800/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Similiar markings here: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2785707776/tt0097576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm really not sure! I keep coming back to the business of the visible side strap. It was the only part of the jacket that had not undergone severe distressing (most of which appearing to be freshly done) the long part of the strap was untouched and looked very new. In every screenshot I can remember the side straps are reletively short in comparison and were definitely included in the aging process. The D rings were pure Wested, and not a scratch on them.

Cheers,
JTW.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:53 pm

Kt Templar wrote:I'm surprised that no one has posted these images:

thanks for this kt. this jacket is the real deal.

MARQ · Post by **MARQ** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:35 pm

That looks like LC-period jacket to me.

Post by **Mike** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:18 pm

Yeah, I think Holt meant 'real deal' for LC. You can plainly see the flap snaps on it as well as the distressing.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:23 pm

yup,

the real LC jacket. no wested ''remake''

Toldog07 · Post by **Toldog07** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:39 pm

doesnt the zipper go all the way to the bottom in the LC jacket?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:43 pm

nope!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:44 pm

Looks like about 1 1/2" up.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:51 pm

On the LC jacket... no zipper doesn't go to the bottom of the jacket.

HR pic linked here.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/lchr.jpg/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CM · Post by CM » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:27 pm

There's a fascinating interview with Nadoolman and Adam Savage on location at this exhibition on YouTube. Nadoolman has her facts wonderfully wrong Shetr tells Adam that she at first didn't know which left over film jacket was her Indy Raiders jacket but then it hit her. She knows this is the first Raiders jacket because it has d-rings; "d-rings for Deborah", she says. She then tells Adam how she had aged this jacket by the pool, etc.

Given, from the pockets, hide, colour and distressing markings this is clearly an LC jacket which Nadoolman had nothing to do with, it just goes to show how faulty people's memories are. I'm also surprised that she can't tell how overstated the distressing on the LC jackets is compared to her jacket. What do people think?

Nadoolman also talks about how she went to Lucasfilm and saw over 200 remaining Indy jackets (even that sounds wrong) and that no one there knew which films they were all from.

Sheesh.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:29 am

Well, the first batch of Raiders jackets had D rings on them. The straps kept on slipping from them and they were replaced with Tri glides.

Also, I find it amusing to keep reading that Nadoolman says this and says that and doesn't remember this nor that, like if she is suppose to keep this in memory like we do? Well, I hate to break it to ya.. she doesn't care on that same level we do. We are the fans going nuts over details and makers. The Raiders costume was just another gig for her. She did it and moved on to different projects. I am not surprised she says 200 jackets or No one knows which film the different wardrobe pieces are from. It's completly normal for them not to remember. They really do not care like we do. It's just stuff...

And a side note, 200 jackets? May be? I dunno. Probably not. Maby close to a 100? maby...The fact is, it has been reported that the archives contain many MANY Indy jacket reproductions from different vendors collected over the years and not only original film jackets.. So the confusion could be explained..

CM · Post by CM » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:46 am

Holt I know what you mean but I disagree on this example. She is curating a significant exhibition and is, presumably, paid to care and acting in the role of custodian of the narrative. She might have done her homework better - this was no 60 second interview with a slobbering fanboy done on the run. This exhibition is a significant job for her. Her certainty about some very wrong facts I find troubling. Sure, it was a job many years ago but it remains one of her most important.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:04 am

Yes, I agree with you that she is an expert in her field but I don't think she cares as much as we do. That was my point when I said, it was just another gig for her. When saying gig I don't mean that in a negative way. She truly is an expert and she does what does like no one else but still don't think she would remember certain tiny details. Same with the shirt. Dark buttons or light buttons on the raiders shirt? It's her work right?. See? Nah, after 30+ years, she does not remember. Just my opinion.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:36 am

I'm going to have to agree with CM on this. Whereas as fans we certainly pour over this stuff much more than anyone could expect DNL to, but she has been very specific about her role in creating the costume for ROLA. See below in the interview she gave with Adam, she talks about seeing the jackets in the Archive and then seeing the d-rings and brass zipper and she remembered without a doubt she had found the one, true jacket she personally distressed.

Um, storm flap snaps?

You can skip to 13:35. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta6rggdNQs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watch Adam's face. I may be projecting, but to me there's a look in his eyes that says, "That's not a ROLA jacket, that's a LC jacket."

If she had said, "You know, it's been 30 years. I have done so many things in the interim, I hadn't even thought about the ROLA costume until I was putting together this exhibit. Then I had to select a jacket for this display. I worked with a team of people at the archive to pick out what we thought would best represent the iconic look. Honestly, we don't know which movie this jacket came from." I would be totally fine with it. She goes out of her way to say that out of "250" jackets, only she was able to personally identify the one.

And she got it wrong.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

CM · Post by CM » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:43 am

Once again Jeff you put my thoughts so much better than me. I thought it was very odd. There were many ways for DNL to tall about the Indy costume without claiming this level of specificity which just made her being wrong look a bit silly.

And yes, most people won't know. But that's not the point. If you're going to curate a specialist event then you should be careful that the "specialist knowledge" you share with your stakeholder group is accurate. In the end I thought this example was something useful for us to see the limits of expert, first person testimony. Speaking personally, it's a lesson I can always learn.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:03 am

Some theory's,

I think when looking at the video she looks a bit insecure. That's just my opinion. She talks about the costume and then goes on about the D rings standing for ''Deborah'' that's how she remembers she says. Sorry I just don't buy that quite when I see a LC jacket hanging there and by the looks of Adam's face, he looks like a question mark too. This is where I mean, she does not remember or care all that good on the same level as we do even tho how much of an expert she is. Which I find normal after so many years and so many jackets and so many rememberings.

Now if the whole ''D ring for Deborah'' theory is true then the dock side bantu wind jacket (which is the jacket she personally aged) Really did have the D rings like I allways thought it had and the mix up is explained. And not only that, the dock side jacket had a low yolk too like the LC jacket. And also she clearly points out that the other jacket she looked at had a buckle with two pronges and by the looks of her that was NOT the raiders jacket and she was absolutley right, that was the temple jacket.

She really did try to create the Raiders outfit but either she got it wrong because she does not quite remember and had some mix ups or she was not allowed to take the real Hero raiders from George and put it on display. And that could be for many reasons. Remember when Tony copied it? it was brought by high security and no photos were allowed to be taken. Why would the only known torn apart George Lucas owned Raiders jacket be put on display?

My point is again, She cares and is an expert but she is not a bionic women when talking about the Raiders costume. She can make mistakes and she clearly did and I do not blaim her.

CM · Post by CM » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:28 am

That's fine Holt - you're obviously less hard on people than I am.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:44 am

I have no doubts she would not have been permitted to take GL's personal keepsake jacket for the exhibit.

She was in the Archives where I image there's any number of Indy jackets hanging. Obviously not well marked by other accounts of which jackets originated from where.

She calls her own expertise into question by telling such a detailed story about being so absolutely certain about which jacket that is and being so absolutely wrong. It hurts her credibility.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:38 pm

My God what an irritating woman.

Forrest For the Trees · Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:51 pm

Out of respect, Adam didn't call her on it. He's a classy guy. Really, to 99% of the people out there, any screen used Indy jacket would do. From our perspective, though, this is super frustrating. The Raiders hero jacket really is the holy grail for a lot of us. And here's the Raiders costume designer saying, "Here it is!" when it so clearly is not. What a let down.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:55 pm

I see where you are coming from but trust me, Adam knows it's not the Raiders jacket. he didn't call her out on it out of respect. He knows it's not the Raiders jacket.. He is pretty much as obsessed Indy as we are. Hey, he is a memeber here, that explains alot

CM · Post by CM » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Of course Adam is a good friend of John Landis, Deborah's husband. You should check out the interview he did with Landis, it's terrific. Adam is a great interviewer.

jones the whip · Post by **jones the whip** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:36 am

Forgive me if I'm off base here, I've just re-joined this thread.

I stood as close to this V&A display as you are to your computer screens, it was an LC jacket.

Cheers,
JTW.

CM · Post by CM » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:15 pm

We've well established that fact, Jones. The odd thing for some of us is Mrs Landis didn't know.

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:52 pm

Like I said, and it is only speculation form my side but I think it's just because she mixes the Bantu wind dockside jacket up with the LC jacket.

The bantu jacket was more brown then then dark brown. (similiar to LC) Pluss it has D rings and a low yoke.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:05 pm

A little off topic, but I really wonder about how much truth can be found in the word of costumers.

Case in point, I recently read an interview with Bernie Pollack (who dressed Ford in KotCS), and he said:

“I found this film more daunting than I ever dreamed it would be because everybody who was connected with the last film, everybody, was not in business anymore... The hat maker in London was out of business."

http://www.straight.com/article-146487/ ... iness-suit

CM · Post by CM » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:20 pm

Holt wrote:Like I said, and it is only speculation form my side but I think it's just because she mixes the Bantu wind dockside jacket up with the LC jacket.

The bantu jacket was more brown then then dark brown. (similiar to LC) Pluss it has D rings and a low yoke.

I hear you. If she can remember where the yoke went and the shade of brown then surely she can remember not using snaps. The d rings I get but there are other rings in the archive with them. But hey, she's human and appears to be always in a rush so I get that she makes mistakes. As Castor says, costumers may will just make things up.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:48 pm

Castor Dioscuri wrote:A little off topic, but I really wonder about how much truth can be found in the word of costumers.

Case in point, I recently read an interview with Bernie Pollack (who dressed Ford in KotCS), and he said:

“I found this film more daunting than I ever dreamed it would be because everybody who was connected with the last film, everybody, was not in business anymore... The hat maker in London was out of business."
http://www.straight.com/article-146487/ ... iness-suit

Considering the 'hat maker in London' was dead by then, he was, indeed, 'out of business'.

Regard! Michaelson

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:00 am

Fair enough.

You know, the same could be said for Indy V if it ever gets put into production. Nowak's gone, Delk is retired(?), and Jacka and Strain have hung up their whips for the most part... This Indy business must take quite a toll!