Battle of the Browns

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:39 pm

Dear All

I intend purchasing a lambskin Raiders and in trying to get a screen accurate look I’m a little confused as to what brown to go for (i.e. Dark Brown or Authentic). I had the pleasure of visiting Wested a couple of years ago (before the advent of Authentic) and having seen the lambskin from that era thought it entirely consistent with the majority of scenes in the film. While admittedly the jacket looks a bit lighter during the scenes in “The Raven”, in the light of day so to speak (e.g. the fight round the flying wing) the leather is very dark almost black, and I’m a little surprised Authentic (as reported) is noticeably lighter. Your comments (particularly from those who have seen both) would be much appreciated.

Regards

Jock

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:01 pm

First, I would send Peter an email asking him to send you some sample swatches of the leather types he offers.
I have a set of leather swatches from Wested, and I tell you, the Authentic brown looks awesome. It is only a tad lighter than dark brown, but you can def. see a difference. If I could do it over, I would have ordered Authentic Brown goat.....Hey wait a minute, I did!!!

Sorry, inside joke.

mechinyun · Post by **mechinyun** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:34 pm

Get the dark brown

Why? Heres my opinion.

Wheather its the headpeice or jacket or whip, i want my gear to look like how it looks in the movie. Which in most cases the jacket looked almost black to my eye. Also, in a real life situation i think a darker color goes with more outfits.

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:49 pm

That is a good call, Mechinyun. I have the Dark brown, got it last Monday, and it looks fabulous. In certain light, it almost looks authentic brown. But I agree that the dark brown looks closer to the movie color than the Authentic, in my opinion.

Panama Tom Jr. · Post by **Panama Tom Jr.** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:58 pm

I agree with IndyBlues - ask for samples. Just email for some - I got mine for free. On my first jacket I had my mind originally made up on dark brown goat, but once I saw the samples I went with the authentic lamb. All the experts agree that the jacket looked dark in the movie because of the lighting, and when I got my jacket it looked very dark in certain lights. The scenes outside of the temple at the beginning of Raiders you can really see that the authentic lamb was the real deal. Also, the Last Crusade jacket is definitely closer to the authentic. ToD looks more like dark brown. I'd say get the samples and then compare them to your favorite scenes of the jacket and make your choice from there...

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:59 pm

mechinyun wrote:Get the dark brown

Why? Heres my opinion.

Wheather its the headpeice or jacket or whip, i want my gear to look like how it looks in the movie. Which in most cases the jacket looked almost black to my eye. Also, in a real life situation i think a darker color goes with more outfits.

I totally agree...when I got my first Wested 4-5 years ago, the authentic brown wasn't an option, and like Jock, the color of the jacket seemed dead on to me. Then, when time came to order a new jacket late last year, I was torn...authentic or dark? I picked dark brown for all the same reasons as Mechinyun. It looked more like the dark brown, almost black, leather of the jacket on screen. I will say the authentic looks nice too, from the pics I've seen (I've never seen it in person) and I do plan on picking one (or two or three

) of the authentic colored jackets up at some point...but I'm very happy with the dark brown. Good luck!

-GCR

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:12 pm

I have for a long time been interested in seeing a comparison between a G&B Goatskin in a Seal brown and the Wested Authentic brown in a Goatskin and/or a Lambskin jacket (preferably both) under the same lighting conditions or in an evaluation from someone who owns both the Wested and Expedition. I’ve been told that a G&B Goatskin is very, very similar to the color of both Wested Authentic browns. Samples just do not work for me, they are far too small to make any serious comparison for my money, and often do not resemble anything similar to the actual hide’s that I HAVE purchased at least from G&B. In other words, they were basically useless when I seen the actual jacket ordered IMHO.

I have seen the G&B Seal Goatskin Expedition in person, but I am afraid that it just appears to have NO richness to it’s color, and just seems a tad too light for my taste (Pecards may help some in improving this - I don’t know). I like everything else about the Seal Goatskin, EXCEPT the color. Perhaps I’m just use to seeing too many Indy jackets in the Dark browns, but at least when they do distress, it’s likely to give them a nice contrast than starting out with a lighter color (Authentic Wested or Seal Expeditions), but then I can’t really judge this not having seen a good comparison of the three together.

It sure would be nice to see exactly what the color difference is between these Indy jackets together. Are the Westeds darker or richer in color than the Seal Expo? And do all these these jackets distress without the greyish appearance or like many people have stressed here, that the dark brown is the way to go?

A good question brought up in this thread.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:35 pm

If you want screen accurate, it is called "authentic" brown for a reason.

Corbin · Post by **Corbin** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:49 pm

Authentic brown is the way to go if you want screen accurate. Personal preference accurate is up to you. It all depends on the way you see things. Do you like the authentic brown or the dark brown? The lamb or the goat? I had a heck of a time deciding this myself, so I wish you luck!

Post by **Ken** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:16 pm

Bufflehead Jones wrote:If you want screen accurate, it is called "authentic" brown for a reason.

The story is that in the move from the old premisies Peter found an old half finished jacket that had been made for the production of Raiders. So this was the original material. So he used this to source a new match (Italian) authentic lambskin.

Ken

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:55 pm

Panama Tom Jr. wrote:On my first jacket I had my mind originally made up on dark brown goat, but once I saw the samples I went with the authentic lamb. All the experts agree that the jacket looked dark in the movie because of the lighting, and when I got my jacket it looked very dark in certain lights. The scenes outside of the temple at the beginning of Raiders you can really see that the authentic lamb was the real deal...

I had the exact same experience. I got both samples and initially was enamoured with the dark brown, but over time I grew to prefer the authentic brown, and I have not been disappointed. It is dead-on Raiders, and I have done enough staring at Raiders stills over the years to feel confident claiming a certain level of expertise. The authentic lamb also distresses naturally and quickly. I recently ran into another gearhead (Indy81) who has a 2-year old dark brown Wested that looks brand new. My 6-month-old authentic brown Wested looks much older, and I have not purposely distressed it at all.

As a kid, I too thought Indy's jacket looked black. That's why I initially liked the dark brown. But my powers of observation have been improved immeasurably through hanging out with gearheads over the past couple years. MK was the first to point out that a lot of repro jackets were too shiny. He also brought up pocket placement, the whole 'scalloped pocket' thing, and the rounded vs. squared pocket corners. Austin Powers made a bit deal about seams matching up. _ opened the whole 'D-rings vs. buckles' can of worms. Thanks to these guys, a standard Wested became pretty much screen accurate. The only other discrepancy was the leather itself. Then Peter found his prototype, and that was rectified too.

As MK pointed out, the dark brown does indeed have a bit of a shine to it, while the Italian lamb has a nice, dull Raider-esque flatness to it that bespeaks a little wear and tear. A cursory viewing of Raiders on DVD today is enough to prove that Wested's authentic lamb is as close as I will ever get (or ever need to get) to the jackets Ford and the stuntmen wore.

Lindiana · Post by **Lindiana** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:14 am

In the defense of the authentic brown I'll say this and I know other members of the board know the same thing. While to the eye the authentic brown color looks lighter, almost every photo I've taken wearing mine comes out looking very dark brown or black. I'm guessing since the movies were filmed this phenomenon accounts for the darker color look in some of the scenes of the films. Like in the Raven bar the jacket is unmistakably brown cause of the type of lighting used to make the fire. I highly doubt one jacket was a different color than all the rest of the ones used for filming.
Lindiana

Imperialknight · Post by **Imperialknight** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:42 am

Guys, what about the Flight Suit Expedition Jacket, any comments on those ?

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:51 pm

Exactly IK, WHAT ABOUT the G&B Seal Goat Expedition, and how does it compare in color to the Authentic browns offered by Wested - is one or the other lighter, darker, ...do they all distress to a nice color or a grayish color. Again, the THREE contenders that I was at least talking about (that fall somewhere in the same color range) are the Wested Authentic Lamb, the Authentic Wested Goat, and G&B’s entry with the (possibly close) to Authentic Seal Goatskin. Just applying the word ‘Authentic’ to any article of clothing (hmm...like Disney’s fedora’s, etc.) does not mean a thing to me. Again, I’m interested in the color of all three jackets and preferably a comparison of them under the same lighting conditions or someone who’s seen all three. I DO NOT particularly care about which is ‘screen’ accurate, or is even just called that, at this point - I will decide that in my own mind. I know the other spec’s and other pro’s and con’s of both vendor’s jackets. I also think everyone thus far agrees that the other Wested and G&B hides are too light or ‘perhaps’ too dark left AS IS.

BTW: Welcome to the fray Imperialknight and Jock. Ya, I feel like shaking things up today.

indy81 · Post by **indy81** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:25 pm

Once again I want to say it was a pleasure to finally meet a fellow gearhead. Schwammy, your right too, my jacket is just too new looking. It's the dark brown lamb and though I've worn it just about everywhere I'm tired of it looking so new. Two years...I think it's time to help the process along some how.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:32 pm

I have had both versions in hand and on back, but at different times. With the subtle differences in brown, I can not say with good conscience what (if any) differences there are between the G&B (also known as FS, for those who didn't catch the change) and the Wested 'Authentic' offerings.

Of course, the word 'authentic' was just one chosen by Peter as the spec'd Italian leather matched point for point the original, unfinished jacket discovered at Wested in the move. If I recall, though, the 'authentic' Wested's seem to have a richer tint than the G&B version, but without laying one literally on top of the other for an honest to gosh side by side comparison, I'd just be offering an opinion based on dim memory, and not actual experience, which I will NOT do. Sorry. Regards. Michaelson

Imperialknight · Post by **Imperialknight** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:33 pm

Rixter, thanks. I think you guys will find this interesting, if you have not been to this site before. Check it out http://www.regular-guy.com/Indy.htm

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:37 pm

That belongs to MK, one of our site administrators. Most of that information is being migrated to the new Indygear main page when it's update is complete. Regards. Michaelson

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:31 pm

Dear all

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply to my post.
You've made a relative newcomer feel very welcome.

Jock

PS I'm still not clear on who won the Authentic v Dark contest but luckily I live in the South of England and will try to visit Wested to see for myself.

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:28 pm

Today I seen my first G&B Dark Seal Lambskin up close. I had already seen their Seal Goatskin. SO (follow along now) if Wested’s Dark Brown Lamb is anywhere near the same dark umber color as it appears on screen when compared to G&B’s Dark Seal Lamb, AND the G&B Seal Goatskin is nearly the same color as either one of Wested’s Authentic versions means the Wested Authentic’s are darker than the G&B Seal Goat - if you follow me (assuming you haven’t stopped reading already) since there is more than just a “tad” difference between the G&B Seal Goat and their Dark Seal Lamb. You would definitely not mistake the difference between the two G&B offerings.

That’s all I got to say about this, because the rest would be mere speculation on my part, not having seen ANY Wested in person, let alone tried one on. One final thing I think holds true to G&B as it does to schwammy’s Wested observations. The G&B Dark Seal lamb has a real shine to it, while the G&B Seal Goat has a duller “Raider-esque” sheen.

Eiti · Post by **Eiti** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:15 am

mechinyun wrote:Get the dark brown

Why? Heres my opinion.

Wheather its the headpeice or jacket or whip, i want my gear to look like how it looks in the movie. Which in most cases the jacket looked almost black to my eye. Also, in a real life situation i think a darker color goes with more outfits.

As i was a young boy i always thought indy would wear a black jacket.
That is why i prefer the dark brown leather (but authentic brown looks also very very good)

Lord_Clarence · Post by **Lord_Clarence** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:59 pm

I can't see a difference for the life of me in Schwammy's chance meeting post.

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7301

The authentic and the dark look about the same to this casual eye in the second picture, comparing lit areas to lit and shaded to shaded. Which, for my money, tells me if they are that close, then I might as well aim for the authentic, just to lend that much more... well, authenticity to my Indy jacket.

Cordially,
Lord Clarence

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:20 pm

Well, the difference is hard to capture on film. The authentic lamb is a more yellowish brown, while the dark brown leans more toward purple/black. I've learned that direct sunlight does not help in accurately photographing a leather jacket, and I've yet to see a photo that even remotely captures the true color of brown leather. (Apparently Fonzie's jacket was brown too.) But the difference is noticeable in the flesh.

For that matter, my hair always photographs black, when it's actually dark brown. And ITG's eyes photograph red, and we all know they are in fact pink.

Battle of the Browns

Battle of the Browns

Leather Jacket

Jacket