Bill Kelso's Relic Hunter

Obi Sean Kenobi · Post by **Obi Sean Kenobi** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:37 am

I know this is probably the wrong topic, but since we are engaging in this discussion - is the wested hero chrome tanned or veg tanned?

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:07 pm

I think that's a question best asked in the Hero thread.

My understanding is chrome tanning is much faster and significantly less expensive than veg tanning making it a more economical choice for 'large volume' jacket manufacturers. I would think that would play largely into the mix. Especially if the fans were asking for a more water repellant leather, what's the downside for a vendor to 'meet the customer demands' with a much less expensive leather.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:17 pm

Obi Sean Kenobi wrote:I know this is probably the wrong topic, but since we are engaging in this discussion - is the wested hero chrome tanned or veg tanned?

Mostly chrome. MY shrunken lamb is veg - I think the crispe is too.

Back to this topic though... I'd certainly like to see more of the grainy lamb - it seems to have a wonderful colour, more so than the striated - could just be the lighting though.

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:33 pm

To clear the doubts, vegetable tanned and chrome tanned is not something you can distinguish with naked eye.

The superiority of Bill Kelso leathers should not attributed to the tanning method only. There are plenty of other factors in the process which contribute to the final appearance of the hide. Let's just say that there is a secret recipe....

About the price that some people argued, let me tell you, this jacket is sold really cheap.
These jackets are completely hand made out of the best leather money can buy.
This kind of leather is expensive because of its scarcity and the process of vegetable tanning which takes a long time, and can take up to 6 months.

Also, much more skill is required in the making of vegetable tanned leathers. Vegetable tanning usually uses traditional craftsmen techniques and are mostly done by hand. There are a very limited number of tanneries who still apply this method. With vegetable tanned leathers, you can really see the skill that has gone in to producing them. That's why vegetable tanned leathers are more expensive; simply because they are better! Vegetable tanned leathers generally last longer, and look much more natural.

Also each skin produced using vegetable tanning is completely unique, so please don't ask for uniform grain in striated lamb. There is no such thing.

Zoltar · Post by **Zoltar** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:36 am

It's not the price of the jacket I've got a problem with, it's the depth of my wallet!

ZOLTAR

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:26 am

I was just notified that my number "013" jacket is on the its way to me. Can't wait!

Gailen

CM · Post by CM » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:50 am

That afalzon is a great salesman, isn't he?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:37 am

Question? Do these lambskin leathers look the same?

Edit: This is no slam to (any) vendor, just an observation that the leather's appearance is significantly different on the surface.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:55 am

One other interesting difference, is like the Wested Hero, the back length on this jacket is similiar. Like the film jacket, it is "blousy" in front. Usually I have to order a 26" in back length, but did not specify any changes to the Kelso and it is 24", so it must be that the pattern is cut differently than what we have ordered in the past?

Zoltar · Post by **Zoltar** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:28 am

Texan Scott wrote:Question? Do these lambskin leathers look the same?

Edit: This is no slam to (any) vendor, just an observation that the leather's appearance is significantly different on the surface.

My wife would say yes! Why do you need "X" jackets exactly alike!

note: the X is just incase she ever see's this thread.

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:42 am

Texan Scott wrote:Question? Do these lambskin leathers look the same?

Edit: This is no slam to (any) vendor, just an observation that the leather's appearance is significantly different on the surface.

Actually that's not the thing I notice at all - the thing I notice is just how bad that pattern is on the Wested compared with the BK. Very good photo, thanks for sharing.

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:41 am

But it's Rola, not Hero in comparison with BK jacket

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:04 pm

It sort of gets back to what I was trying to say earlier, in that the tanning method does make a difference as to the overall appearance of the jacket. The Kelso with this type of skin really pops, while the other looks sort of dull. This also explains why members would break the skin and find the 'grey' undertone. Yet the Rola is the most comfortable Indy jacket I own. Also, since the Kelso was taken from the TN pattern, it "hangs" on a person differently than the other Indy jackets we have ordered in the past: "blousy" in front when the jacket is partially zipped and slightly shorter in back. The "Hero" pattern is very similiar, if not the same, to the TN/Kelso as well. Just another illustration of how many factors have to come together in and on one jacket to produce the right look of the film jacket.

jacksparrow900 · Post by **jacksparrow900** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:20 pm

does anyone know what the differences in color between the striated lambskin and the grainy lamb.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:18 pm

Just received my numbered "13" Jacket. Absolutely beautiful. I'm totally thrilled!!!!!!!!!!!

Gailen

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:26 pm

Can't wait to see pics...*hint hint*

Kidding, congrats! Mine is in production now, hopefully shipping next week...

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:31 pm

Well regarding colour, I can now speak with authority regarding the grainy lamb, as mine arrived yesterday. Picked it up this morning at the post office and it is a very rich, vibrant brown, with reddish-tones, like my old Wested Horse Hide LC! This is one beautiful hunk of leather and it is really wonderfuly made! Great craftsmanship. I never thought I would buy another lamb skin jacket, but this one really rocks! (Before anyone says -- 'This Thread is worthless without Pictures'), I will try to get my daughter to shoot some of this jacket this next week, if possible and then post them. I am really impressed with the quality. I went with the grainy because of the pictures posted by ltfoley, of his and I am not dissapointed at all. It was a tough call to make, as I really like the striated lamb, as well, but for some reason his photos really convinced me to go this way, and I am not sorry. Now, regarding the fit....this too, is a super plus! It fits like a glove and the length is perfect -- a true jacket, not a coat! Andy was great to work with and I would recommend Kelso's products to anyone and that is just based on one purchase -- it really is that nice. W>

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:38 am

A few shots of my Kelso #13 Jacket. I
should have put on a hat.

Gailen

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:36 pm

How long is the back on yours Gailen? I know that you put your pants very high, but it still could be shorter

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:18 pm

Texan Scott wrote:It sort of gets back to what I was trying to say earlier, in that the tanning method does make a difference as to the overall appearance of the jacket. The Kelso with this type of skin really pops, while the other looks sort of dull. This also explains why members would break the skin and find the 'grey' undertone. Yet the Rola is the most comfortable Indy jacket I own. Also, since the Kelso was taken from the TN pattern, it "hangs" on a person differently than the other Indy jackets we have ordered in the past: "blousy" in front when the jacket is partially zipped and slightly shorter in back. The "Hero" pattern is very similiar, if not the same, to the TN/Kelso as well. Just another illustration of how many factors have to come together in and on one jacket to produce the right look of the film jacket.

Yeah -- 'pops!' Good choice of words. That is what I noticed immediately with my new grainy lamb compared to my Wested lamb LC! Richer, more vibrant colour! W>

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:29 pm

Wyoming, Autumn 1950: I've got my "1936/1981"

Edit: Striated Lamb

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:36 pm

....you're channeling that MoB vibe there, Pasal!

....Is this "Ground Hog Day" do it 'till you get it right, kinda thing?

he will pm me and ask what MoB is and then I will wake up each morning at 6:00 am to 'I Got You Babe'

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:57 am

Phil? Phil Connors???
Let me guess. MoB is a shortform of "Mystery of the Blues".

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:14 am

Correct on MoB.

Regard! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:42 pm

My coleslaw...er, Kelso is on its way back. Can't wait to get some good use out of that jacket!

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:43 am

Texan Scott wrote:My coleslaw...er, Kelso is on its way back. Can't wait to get some good use out of that jacket!

Why did you returned the jacket?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:48 am

alterations.

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:06 am

Texan Scott wrote:alterations.

You know how to turn up the suspense...If may I ask, which alterations?

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:52 am

Just got my Kelso soaked in a driving rainstorm.

Gailen

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:29 pm

This Just In:

The hat is an older AB Raiders (Staff Of Ra liner) for reference. I already love this jacket.

More photos to come as soon as I have time to set up a tripod.

Toldog07 · Post by **Toldog07** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:11 pm

what leather is that?

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:04 pm

Striated Lamb. I requested less striations.

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:05 pm

Texan Scott wrote:alterations.

I 2 am curious. What alterations?

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:08 pm

trdaggers wrote:A few shots of my Kelso #13 Jacket. I
should have put on a hat.

Gailen

Jacket looks great Gailen!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Hey Ray,

Glad you were not disappointed! Lets see the jacket in action...?

Really nice photos you guys.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:30 pm

...what do you guys think of trdaggers as the mature Indy..? C'mon, Gailen! You've got to bring it! Let's see that BK, hat and eyepatch!

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:12 am

Texan Scott wrote:Hey Ray,

Glad you were not disappointed! Lets see the jacket in action...?

Really nice photos you guys.

It's perfect in every way...except fit. For me, the sleeves could definitely be 2" shorter. That translates in to 1" shorter new and they will naturally loose a little more as the jacket get's wrinkles around the elbows. Also, and MOST importantly, I think it's 2" too LONG (in back). I am of the school that the Raiders jacket is a Jacket not a Coat. The back should just pass the belt. This jacket is so Perfect, but my body isn't. So, collar to bottom 25" should be 23" for me.

These things are my fault for not knowing how to communicate to the Bill Kelso gang.

They created my jacket exactly as I asked...and quickly. The material and craftsmanship is beyond compare! It's that perfect balance of sturdy and light! Absolutely high quality and not like a windbreaker. Worth every penny and just what I've been looking for all these years.

So I communicated my concerns and am waiting for a reply. I really don't see how they could make the bottom alteration without ruining the position of the pockets and straps. I don't think Return is likely: I had the sleeves cut to TODDS size. That is, 10" holes at the shoulder ( a bit smaller than usual) so I don't think they will take a return. I may end up reselling a Brand New Bill Kelso Striated Lamb Sz 40 in the Bizarre and re-ordering with correct details for Me.

That's why I don't want to wear it any more than I have to get the fit...it's still basically Unused.

BTW the service and communication has been Excellent as well. Andy responds quickly and took extra time to insure that my sleeve request was properly understood and created. I love these guys at Kelso.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:52 am

It sounds like you may be HF size in Raiders? The hero jacket on loan from lfl and measured by TN back length was 23". I was thinking...

....size 40....23"...yep!

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Christian Jones wrote:Here it is !!!! The BK in Authentic Brown striated lambskin.

Back unzipped :

The leather on this jacket is one of the best I've seen, it's butter soft and I love the striated lamb, looks like the movie jacket to me :

The pocket :

The jacket is also very well built and the stitchings are nice and strong.

The jacket also came in a nice box (not like the Wested bags).
Some more pix here :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56389277@N07/

Tell me about the color. They seem to offer only 1. Your photos look different in that the outside shots seem a dark brown, while the bottom shots (see above) seem much darker toward charcoal...like a TODDS. Were there any color options when you ordered?

I'd also love to know what size alterations you gave them, if any. Sleeve length, back...etc.

This does look great on you. I just got mine yesterday. It is INCREDIBLE, but not a perfect fit on ME. My error, since they made it precisely as ordered.

So, believe it or not, I am considering ordering another to fit exactly, and selling this new one to some lucky buyer who won't have to wait or get killed on shipping, lol

Indiego Jones · Post by **Indiego Jones** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:06 pm

RayROnline wrote:
Texan Scott wrote:Hey Ray,

Glad you were not disappointed! Lets see the jacket in action...?

Really nice photos you guys.
It's perfect in every way...except fit. For me, the sleeves could definitely be 2" shorter. That translates in to 1" shorter new and they will naturally loose a little more as the jacket get's wrinkles around the elbows. Also, and MOST importantly, I think it's 2" too LONG (in back). I am of the school that the Raiders jacket is a Jacket not a Coat. The back should just pass the belt. This jacket is so Perfect, but my body isn't. So, collar to bottom 25" should be 23" for me.

These things are my fault for not knowing how to communicate to the Bill Kelso gang. They created my jacket exactly as I asked...and quickly. The material and craftsmanship is beyond compare! It's that perfect balance of sturdy and light! Absolutely high quality and not like a windbreaker. Worth every penny and just what I've been looking for all these years.

So I communicated my concerns and am waiting for a reply. I really don't see how they could make the bottom alteration without ruining the position of the pockets and straps. I don't think Return is likely: I had the sleeves cut to TODDS size. That is, 10" holes at the shoulder ( a bit smaller than usual) so I don't think they will take a return. I may end up reselling a Brand New Bill Kelso Striated Lamb Sz 40 in the Bizarre and re-ordering with correct details for Me. That's why I don't want to wear it any more than I have to get the fit...it's still basically Unused.

BTW the service and communication has been Excellent as well. Andy responds quickly and took extra time to insure that my sleeve request was properly understood and created. I love these guys at Kelso.

Nice jacket, sorry it didn't fit you.

For an accurate look, you must take into consideration chest size + your height + sleeve lenght.
Regards.-

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:54 pm

Ray,

Hindsight is 20/20, but I can say that the quirky aspect of this pattern makes for different sizing, as does the Wested Hero. I might need a 25 1/2"-26" back length in the RoLA pattern, while with this one, it is 24" and fits below the belt. I ordered as is, with sleeves as the only adjustment.

RayROnline · Post by **RayROnline** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:23 pm

Texan Scott wrote:Ray,

Hindsight is 20/20, but I can say that the quirky aspect of this pattern makes for different sizing, as does the Wested Hero. I might need a 25 1/2"-26" back length in the RoLA pattern, while with this one, it is 24" and fits below the belt. I ordered as is, with sleeves as the only adjustment.

As it turns out, THEY got it wrong. I ordered size 40 with a stated 23" back length. The one I have is 25"'s. I did not request any changes. (I have copies of the email correspondence about it)

I even did the same measurements on my TODDS. Todds =23 inches collar seam to bottom. BK = 25 inches. Simple as that. I just did that to verify that I was looking at the same measurement on the different garments. Accidents happen, but this one wasn't mine after all. I am anxious to see how this works out. It's an AMAZING jacket...but not what I ordered.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:23 pm

Texan Scott wrote:...what do you guys think of trdaggers as the mature Indy..? C'mon, Gailen! You've got to bring it! Let's see that BK, hat and eyepatch!

Texas Scott: That's the nicest thing I've heard in a while. I have everything but the eye patch. As soon as I find one I'll post pictures in full dress.
Have a wonderful holiday!

Gailen

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:27 pm

You too, Gailen! thanks.

Andy, others may be curious to see the RH in the other skins, goat and HH? Do you have any photos to post here?

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:41 pm

Texan Scott wrote:Andy, others may be curious to see the RH in the other skins, goat and HH? Do you have any photos to post here?

Man, oh, man, I'd love to see some goat or HHs of the RH.

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:49 am

It was no longer wet?

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:38 pm

Tundrarider wrote:
trdaggers wrote:Just got my Kelso soaked in a driving rainstorm.

Gailen
Hi Gailen,

What was the result after drying?

Michael

It looks no different then it did before getting wet. I love this jacket!!!!

Gailen

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:35 pm

Yeah, I was kinda curious too, as to what the jacket would look like. I think rainwater changes its appearance differently than even tap water, but I can't confirm it. When the Wested LC jacket was in a rainstorm, the leather seemed to soak up the moisture like a sponge and change the texture of the leather somewhat. Natural rainwater, minerals, I don't know, but I noticed a difference than when regular tap was used.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:49 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that the jacket couldn't stand up to the rainfall. But when you said, "soaked" and "driving rainstorm" it sounded like the jacket experienced something similar to the washing machine treatment, which is known to produce significant results.

Thanks,

Michael

I don't think it was like being through the wash. It did really get wet. Hung it up and it dried overnight and to me looked the same as when I took it out of the box.

Gailen

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:16 pm

Texan Scott wrote:Yeah, I was kinda curious too, as to what the jacket would look like. I think rainwater changes its appearance differently than even tap water, but I can't confirm it. When the Wested LC jacket was in a rainstorm, the leather seemed to soak up the moisture like a sponge and change the texture of the leather somewhat. Natural rainwater, minerals, I don't know, but I noticed a difference than when regular tap was used.

Doesn't most tap water have chlorine and flouride in it? Would that make any difference to the way it reacted to the jacket (other than the expected no cavities jokes....)?