Whips: Just how delicate are they?

[Oildale Jones]

As I described in another post, I met Anthony De Longis at Wasteland Weekend, which takes place outside California City, in the middle of the desert. The ground is dirt, sand and rocks. I wanted to take a whip with me for both my Wasteland Indy and Elite Guard outfits, but didn't want to take either my Todd's roo or my CNC cowhide, so I purchased a paracord whip from some dude with a tiger on his shoulders. I would be able to crack and not have to worry about destroying one of my prized whips.

Anthony was demonstrating whip techniques and dragging his Terry Jacka roo-hide whip in the dirt as he performed, and didn't seem to mind at all. He tried someone else's stockwhip but took care to keep it off the ground.

Later I asked Anthony about his whip, which had about a 12-plus-inch handle and was remarkably flexible. (It reminded me of the "loose" look of Indy's whip when he whips Barranca. Most of my limited experience is with newer whips, so I sort of expect a lot of stiffness.) He said it's his favorite demonstration whip and he's had it for 15 years, and although it showed some wear, it still looked to be in great shape. I asked him how he was going to care for the whip after he'd gotten it so dirty, and he said he was just going to wipe it down and condition it. That surprised me, as most advice I've read runs along the lines of "only crack your whip very gently on a carpet made of unicorn fur at 72 degrees and 35% humidity."

Granted, good whips are expensive, and it's only sensible to take good care of them, but if ADL is OK with dragging his Jacka in the dirt, and he's not going to spend hours cleaning it and picking tiny particles out of the strands with tweezers and a magnifying glass, and it's lasted him 15 years, are we being too precious about our own whips?

[backstagejack]

Here's a question though....can De Longis easily afford another Jacka whip, whereas a common Indygear fan....can't? Not saying he's rich....but I bet he can afford one easier than I can on a good day. Therefore if I had an expensive, well made whip....I'd probably use extra RARE unicorn fur to whip i on.....

[Zuiun]

Here's the thing: Before whips became prized possessions in the collections of Indy fans, they were working tools. And before paracord, leather was it.

Someone who needed to use their whip for their job couldn't just leave it at home because it might be raining out, or rocky ground, or whatever.

Did it take a toll on the whips? Sure. But just like a good leather jacket, merely being exposed to rough conditions itself won't ruin them. A lot has to do with how well they are taken care of post harsh conditions. And the reason tougher leathers are used is so that a few scrapes and nicks won't catastrophically compromise the whip.

The fact that De Longis' favorite demo whip is 15 years old, used in less-than-ideal conditions, and still in really good shape just shows how durable these tools can be when well made.

Does that mean I'm going to go cracking my Joe Strain on a sandy, rocky beach any time soon? Probably not. Rough surfaces *can* wear the leather and sand / dirt *can* get under the strands. But at the same time, I'm not going to sweat it too much if conditions are less than ideal because I feel like it's almost a disservice to the craftsmanship of some of these great whips to NOT trust their ability to be USED.

(Funny thing is, some of us won't think twice about taking a $600 jacket into the shower and then hitting it with a wire brush to give it an aged look, or intentionally aging brand new Aldens, but hesitate to take a whip out and crack it for fear of damaging it... )

[riku1914]

I personally aren't too careful with my whips. I regularly crack them over dirt and sticks , very occasionally over concrete. In rare occasions I would over gravel. I don't like using it over rocks or concrete but I don't let that stop me from showing someone how a whip cracks ( that's the only times I've used it over concrete ).
I clean it off quickly and condition it usually.
I'm not saying that I recommend people I sell whips to to treat them that way , I do the opposite. But I do believe we are often told to be too careful with whips.

[BendingOak]

I don't know what the going price for a TJ whip is but lets say a $1000 divide that by 15 years. He paid just under $67 a year to use it.

[Zuiun]

I don't know what the going price for a TJ whip is but lets say a $1000 divide that by 15 years. He paid just under $67 a year to use it.

This is a very good point regarding the relative affordability of a good whip.

Use a Todd's whip the way De Longis does and you're going to destroy it pretty quickly. I'm not trying to slam the whips. They are good for what they are - a fine costume piece good for the occasional crack. They aren't expensive for a reason.

But a 10 foot Todd's whip is about $125 bucks a pop. If you had to replace that once or twice a year because you perform like De Longis does, now that'll add up to way more than $600-$1000 investment in a good Strain or Jacka whip.

[DarenHenryW]

Having trained with Anthony a number of times at his ranch, I can tell you that a) there is no grass anywhere to crack on, so b) you're always out cracking in his dirt driveway, or in the sandy dirt of his horse arena. The first two times I cracked whips there, I would immediately go inside, wipe them down, then condition them. It was a little frustrating. But he was putting his whips through the same treatment, and they all looked and functioned just fine. There are some on this site who I know handle their whips much too cautiously, but you paid a lot of money, so why not? But they are tools, and when you've spent between $400-$800 on it, you can be comfortable knowing that its built to be used on more surfaces than carpet and grass. There are also people who will walk right out to the street and crack right in the road for a quick demo. I don't do that with roo-hide, but I've done it with cowhide whips (cheap ones) when I'm getting paid to perform. I used to do it with nylon whips, but even they get tore up on a rough surface.

Now, I have theory (which, if its wrong, I would love to have corrected): The "fall" of a whip was probably named that because, if you were cracking a whip off horse back, that would have been the only part of the whip that should be "falling" on the ground. And, as we all know, its a replaceable part of the whip, so its meant to ride roughly over dirt, rocks, sand, whatever. But when you're cracking a 10 foot Indy whip while standing on the ground, MOST of the whip is going to get dragged on the ground, and who wants that if you aren't on a whip-friendly surface? If grass and carpet are the best surfaces, then asphalt and concrete are probably among the worst. But soft dirt is not THAT bad.

After my last visit to Anthony's ranch, I didn't bother cleaning my whips. I threw them in my bag and ran off to meet other friends in LA. The next day, we went whipcracking, and after a 15 minutes of cracking my post-Rancho-Indalo handled whips on the grass, they were totally clean. The grass by itself had removed all the dust and dirt, and they didn't appear to have ever been dirty.

As far as Anthony being able to afford more whips, I can assure you that he's a working fella like the rest of us, he prizes his nice/expensive/sentimental whips and is very protective of them, and cares as much as any professional whipcracker should about the care of his whips. Is he harder on them than most of us? Probably yes, but he's been doing it a very long time and understands the consequences.

Daren Henry W

[J. Roed]

I know for a fact I baby the #### out of my whip collection! I have a Gus Caicedo cowhide bullwhip I'm cracking out in my back yard (gravel, dirt and rough textured concrete) just to see how much abuse it will take before something fails...so far so good!

[Canuck Digger]

This is a very interesting topic and I'm very happy it was brought up because I too have a thought or two on this.

I think we need to understand that we are sometimes confusing issues regarding this, namely how much punishment can a whip take and what is a sensible use of a whip. -Yes, whips are tools and as such should be able to put in a good day's work. But the tools of your grand-father or his grand-father were not made the same way as they are today nor were they made with the same materials and all of this was reflected in the price. A tough, eight-strand cow hide whip made with a center of belting leather cut-offs is not the same as a roo hide whip with two bellies and a twelve plait overlay and intricate knots. So the real question is not only what sort of abuse CAN the whip sustain, but also what did you buy it for? When I need to hammer a couple of nails I don't use a chandelier nor do I take out the sledge hammer-I use the tool that is right for the job, and within the parameters of said job, it performs fine. That said, a 5$ hammer may not have the same life expectancy as a more expensive one so again, you buy for what you want to do with it.

Though I have no doubts Anthony is a working man like everyone here, I also know what a professional stunt or fight coordinator makes working on a Hollywood film, and YES it is easier for someone in that price range to replace a top-notch whip at the drop of a hat, especially when most productions will pay for it... and that is no disrespect to him, it's just a reality and that DOES play into the whole equation. I would NEVER use a roo hide whip in dirt, but I wouldn't think twice about doing the same to a cheap cowhide whip that cost me 50$, BECAUSE it is so much easier for me to replace it. The other point to keep in mind is kangaroo is not the best leather to survive scuffs and nicks and is MUCH more fragile than cow hide to such abuse, this is exactly why David Morgan finished the point of his whips with wider strands than was usually done with kangaroo hide whips in Australia at the time; the extra width helped the point strands withstand abrasions and cuts.

So do you HAVE to baby your whip for it to last a long time? That depends on what you consider babying but one thing is for sure, if you take care of your whip then you have better chances of it lasting a while than if you roughhouse it. Beyond this, it really is up to you and what you can afford to do. If it takes you 20 years to pay for a Porshe, you're not as likely to drive recklessly with it as a Saudi Prince who can buy 12 in the same day and not even notice the difference in his bank account. That said, a Hyundai will get you from A to B just as well, if not in style...

[Zuiun]

Though I have no doubts Anthony is a working man like everyone here, I also know what a professional stunt or fight coordinator makes working on a Hollywood film, and YES it is easier for someone in that price range to replace a top-notch whip at the drop of a hat, especially when most productions will pay for it... and that is no disrespect to him, it's just a reality and that DOES play into the whole equation.

Sure, it's something to consider.

But it really has zero bearing on the fact that his favorite whip, one that he uses frequently, is used in all kinds of less than ideal conditions and is still in great shape after 15 years. In other words, he *ISN'T* necessarily burning through whips simply because he, or some production company, will just buy a new one more easily than many of us here can. His whips are used, and used hard, and the well made ones last. That fact is more to the point about these whips not being delicate little flowers that need to be babied.

I think that the take-away lesson for people here is that if they invest in a quality whip, they can rest assured that it is made to be USED. If they just want to display it, that's fine. But it can handle taking it out there and cracking it, and with some common sense, one doesn't necessarily need to stick to perfectly manicured lawns.

[Canuck Digger]

Oh absolutely! That's why you spend 5-6-700$ for a bullwhip after all... A well-made whip will last and that's because conscientious whipmakers not only know how to make a good whip, but will take the time to prepare the leather so it is as strong as possible INSIDE. They'll remove weak and stretchy bits and work only with A-1 leather. They'll make sure that whatever goes into their whips have been properly stretched and tested prior to plaiting. In some cases, they will bind multiple layers of the bellies to reinforce the transition zone and do everything possible to make the whip both strong and attractive. That's why these whips are more expensive than cheap whips made in Mexico with string as the only core.

So can you rough them up and still use them? Yes. Should you? That is entirely a question of what you are comfortable living with.
Regards,

Franco

[Indiana Jeff]

Interesting points brought up here.

Not being as much a 'whip man' as a 'hat man' I've seen the exact same discussions over in the Fedora section. You can replace 'fedora' for 'whip' in this entire thread and the conversations are identical.

By the by, this is the first time I've seen Anthony's name abbreviated ADL. Love it!

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Oildale Jones]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses, gents.