Bill Kelso's Relic Hunter

afalzon · Post by **afalzon** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:53 pm

hum..i just looked at some of my raiders screengrabs and see what you are talking about..man, will anyone ever get the jacket 100%? lol..Seems if the fans can notice this stuff and point it out that the jacket makers could?

The left side of collar on BK jackets extend to the midway point of the top of the storm flap, as shown here.

it's the same as shown here:

The 009 jacket is constructed the same way, despite what you see in the below photo.

Perhaps the owner 009 can clarify this.
Also please note how the color is identical in the two above photos.

The Relic Hunter jackets have all the details correctly made.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:58 pm

youngjedi71 wrote:well since I can hardly tell any difference in any jacket from the next out side of a few small things like a collar might be larger, OR the wind flap might be larger, OR the yolk or whatever the straps are called might be different sizes, OR the leather might be thicker OR have a different texture..AND honestly I dont see those differences unless they are all side by side and its pointed out..lol...I wouldnt pay over 500$ for any jacket even if I was bill gates rich. AND since most of the jackets are not made by the original people or actual movie prop jackets who cares?IF you can buy a TODDS for 200$ that looks as much the part as a 500$ US WINGS, why not go with the TODDS? Unless you getting them made to fit they all are going to fit close to the same if ordered properly..Just saying..a penny saved is a penny earned.

This is a fan site based on a shared obsession... Surely you understand that what you say runs against the philosophy of a place like this.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:17 pm

youngjedi71 wrote:
fifthchamber wrote:Honestly..While I agree with a lot of what you said, in things like leather jackets (and hats as well..Clothing, especially, as a general rule), you gain a LOT by paying the higher price..It's not just the cash..But what the cash is paying for...Which, as a rule, is more hand made work, more attention to production, higher base quality of the materials used, and more care put into the whole process right down the line...From inception to sending out to you...

You pay more because you appreciate that it's WORTH more..Worth being the REAL use of the word....What it COST, in terms of the entire process...

In clothing, all that comes back to you three fold...You'll get a jacket that lasts a lot longer, is better made, more resistant to damage and wear, and looks a lot closer to what you'd asked for...

Basically...I'd swear I've had this conversation with you before..LOL
not sure if we have talked about this or not before unless you my lil buddy on facebook?. IF SO...then I really never agreed, I just accepted your opinion.. ....In my mind, if something lasts, ..it lasts..simple as that. Rather its handmade or machine/factory. AND I think I said something like...I like my FedIV and my AB..but I think the FedIV might be better made and worth MORE than the AB? I dont remember all of the conversation. But I know it had something to do with clothes and such..

And this is just me..im sure...AS these forums are made more for guys who want to spend the money on tailor made clothes and look down on cheaper off the rack things..Especially if its anything to do with Indy gear.

I will say again, I think my Salvation Army/goodwill 3$ pants are better than the 100$ Indy pants I bought..lol..AND my 1st indy "disney" hat 65$ would outlast the AB 320$ in harsh climates. So I ask you, which is better? Rather it takes 100 years of practice to make something or not what does it matter if it dont stand the test of time? Just because someone has a skill to make something doesnt really make it better or have more "worth".

And like I said im sure im alone on this here..but its all good. we all have opinions right??

Yeah...No need to agree at all....It's still a LOT of cash, in either event...I just wanted to see if you'd understand the idea I was pushing at..It's not JUST money..Most times (and yeah, there are exceptions..Sure) that money goes towards the things that make the jacket better...So, you pay a little more, and get better quality goods....(All the things you say you want in a jacket..Which I guess is why I'm a little confused by your stance..)

I don't think there's a stress here on COW about paying a lot for goods....Not at all...Just that for what we are after (we being the majority, who want screen accurate - to whatever degree - and useable gear), paying less means you get goods that aren't quite "right"....

However..."Right" covers a lot of holes, and your "right" of course, isn't the same as mine, just as mine isn't the same as CRB's...(Although, we happen to agree on many of the same things..)..

No need to agree with me...But I was trying to explain why posting what you posted on a forum makes people a touch unsure of what you meant..

As for your Fed IV being "better made" than your AB? Really? I'm not going to touch that one...

Your entitled to your opinion...I have two Fed IV's, and an AB...And the AB is nowhere near the Fed in how it's made..Buuuut...

You have your opinion...And that's all good...

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:08 pm

Why all the negative Vibes?

Gailen

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:26 pm

Because I'm back at work after a nice holiday?

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:18 pm

fifthchamber wrote:Because I'm back at work after a nice holiday?

Really didn't think you said anything negative.

Gailen

youngjedi71 · Post by **youngjedi71** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:39 pm

trdaggers wrote:Why all the negative Vibes?

Gailen

I dont think anyone has meant to come off negative..I know I didnt..if so, sorry..cant we all just get along..

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:52 pm

trdaggers wrote:
fifthchamber wrote:Because I'm back at work after a nice holiday?

Really didn't think you said anything negative.

Gailen

Thanks Gailen..

(Me neither..But I am back at work and feeling gloomy..LOL)

Jedi, as for disagreeing...No worries...Price is a major issue for us all, some more than others of course, but I wouldn't say COW is aimed at those who want to spend a lot only....It's not, not at all....If that's the rep it has, that's a shame...Because it's not true...

That irritated me a little..

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:22 am

afalzon wrote:
Perhaps the owner 009 can clarify this.

Happy to but I'm actually totally confused what I'm supposed to be clarifying ? All I do know is that the collar/front piece meet exactly the same way as my TNO. Can post a photo if you like.

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:50 pm

I just got mine (011-1981) today in grainy lamb, i'll post some pics soon.
I have to say, It's the best indy jacket i have ever had, and i own two Wested and one Todd.

The fit is better than the others, the cut is great, and the leather is beautiful.
BEST JACKET EVER!!!!

$\:D/$

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:22 pm

I think one of the biggest influences as to the accuracy of the color is that this leather has been vegetable tanned. That and the type of leather used. I don't think he would have any problem with my posting this email, just an fyi for you:

"As you may know these hides come from a special breed of sheep that live in 2 places on the planet and we have to import them from thousands of miles away. Their skins are vegetable tanned, a process which takes at least 6 months to complete. They are 100% natural and their beauty lies on the fact that they have not a uniform grain. That's the attestation of natural and genuine leather.

Regular lambskin has uniform grain partly due to the nature of the animals and partly due to the fact that leathers undergo various processes including sanding and grinding in order to smooth them out."

"The hide is supreme quality, the tannery sells it to high end Italian and French designers only.
For your information, there are very few tanneries in the world that continue to tan by vegetable tanning, thus all veg tanned leathers are very expensive.

The jacket is sold very cheap compared to the price of the hides.
We kept the price low in the spirit of launching the jacket with a special introductory price.

Unfortunately, the price will go North soon when we will make available the dark brown color, as we have to breakeven."

This behind the scenes shot is uncanny:

afalzon wrote:very similar draping here

and here

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:40 am

A few shots of mine (grainy lamb) after a little distressing. I LOVE THAT THING!!!!

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:52 am

at first glance I thought I was looking at a LC jacket. I would put some pecards on it to have the scratches blend more in and look more natural.

Nice jacket!

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:57 am

I though it was an LC at first as well...very nice jacket, love the color and texture!

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:21 am

this is the look i was looking for, mix of the raiders cut and LC distressing. But i think i'm going to pecard it soon.

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:18 pm

WOW, that is a dramatic difference!

Not to jump ahead or anything, but this does make me wonder what the outcome would be if the folks at Bill Kelso put their minds to a Last Crusade Jacket!

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:22 pm

I don't think the guy in Greece in interested in LC

CM · Post by CM » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:39 pm

Holt wrote:I don't think the guy in Greece in interested in LC

Really? I heard he was going to do all three if there was a market.

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:13 pm

I've heard all four film jackets...

Just placed my order for the Relic Hunter in the SL...count me in for a BK LC as well (especially if proper distressing is available), maybe even a KOTCS...time to sell some plasma.

By the way, is there a support group for jacket buying...or have I already arrived?

Forrest For the Trees · Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:22 pm

singsingjohnny wrote:By the way, is there a support group for jacket buying...or have I already arrived?

Ummm... I thought a support group was supposed to help people overcome their addictions.

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:40 pm

Forrest For the Trees wrote:
singsingjohnny wrote:By the way, is there a support group for jacket buying...or have I already arrived?
Ummm... I thought a support group was supposed to help people overcome their addictions.

Good point...scratch that, I enjoy it away too much!

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:28 pm

ltfoley wrote:A few shots of mine (grainy lamb) after a little distressing. I LOVE THAT THING!!!!

Incredible jacket. One question. Do you have any shots of the jacket before distressing? I would like to see close-ups of the hide itself. If not, that's ok, I think I have a pretty good idea of what it's like! That is one beautiful jacket! These folks have really nailed the 'Raider's (and almost LC)' look in one jacket! It is like the ultimate hybrid of the two. Kind of like Steve's KOTCS Fedora

! W>

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:30 am

I don't have pics of the jacket before distressing, sorry. I put a leather care lotion on the jacket yesterday and the scratches now look more natural, i'll post some pics soon.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:32 pm

I'd like to see up close pics of the "grainy lambskin" myself. Has anyone else bought the jacket in this hide yet?

I think IF I go for another Indy jacket it's got to have more of a "slim cut".....That's the one thing I really liked about Todd's first generation Indy jackets. I ended up getting rid of it because it was to "thin" and felt like a windbreaker.

How is the cut of this jacket compared to the others? Would you guys say it's more "form fitting". I can't have another baggy Indy jacket.

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:43 am

More shot of my jacket after distressing and pecarding. I think it looks perfect!!!

Details of the grain :

And the best pic i have!
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229 ... 0013-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:50 am

So that's the grainy lamb instead of the striated lamb, yes ?

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:56 pm

Nice grain and color!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:02 pm

I almost went with grainy lamb, but I was told not to, that it would look like just another leather jacket, and that the better option was the striated lamb...it's that good he said.

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:06 pm

CRB wrote:So that's the grainy lamb instead of the striated lamb, yes ?

Yes CRB, it's grainy lamb.
I really really like it, i wear it all the time, here in france the weather is hot but i don't care, the jacket is on me everyday! The jacket is Harrison Ford sized, so i really feel like an adventurer!!!! I'll try to post some pics with the complete outfit.
And i think i have done a good job with my distressing, what do you think?

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:16 pm

After seeing Raiders in Imax today, I would say go grainy lamb (as far as SA texture goes). There were 2 short bits where striations were visible, but for the remainder of the film the grainy lamb looks spot on...

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:29 pm

ltfoley wrote:
CRB wrote:So that's the grainy lamb instead of the striated lamb, yes ?
Yes CRB, it's grainy lamb.
I really really like it, i wear it all the time, here in france the weather is hot but i don't care, the jacket is on me everyday! The jacket is Harrison Ford sized, so i really feel like an adventurer!!!! I'll try to post some pics with the complete outfit.
And i think i have done a good job with my distressing, what do you think?

What procedures did you perform to achieve this distressed look? W>

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:11 pm

The "grainy hide" reminds me a lot of the way my Wested Goat looked years ago. Same type of texture.....Although, this hide doesn't have the "shine" that jacket did.

ltfoley · Post by **ltfoley** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:28 pm

WConly wrote:
ltfoley wrote:
CRB wrote:So that's the grainy lamb instead of the striated lamb, yes ?
Yes CRB, it's grainy lamb.
I really really like it, i wear it all the time, here in france the weather is hot but i don't care, the jacket is on me everyday! The jacket is Harrison Ford sized, so i really feel like an adventurer!!!! I'll try to post some pics with the complete outfit.
And i think i have done a good job with my distressing, what do you think?
What procedures did you perform to achieve this distressed look? W>

Sandpaper, just that. No need of alcohol or acetone. Then leather balm, that's it.

Post by **Holt** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:17 pm

man, I applaud you to take sandpaper to a 800 dollar jacket!

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:02 pm

Holt wrote:man, I applaud you to take sandpaper to a 800 dollar jacket!

Yeah! That kinda' hit my mind too! I tried that on a lamb Wested once, and the results were not quite this accomplished! After lots of Percards, it looked a bit smoother and palitable, but not like this! I would not have the courage to attempt this! W>

"Then leather balm, that's it."

Just what kind of 'balm' did you use? W>

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:19 pm

Holt wrote:man, I applaud you to take sandpaper to a 800 dollar jacket!

The grainy lamb is about $450 not $800, but the point stands. Looks good.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:59 am

ltfoley wrote:More shot of my jacket after distressing and pecarding. I think it looks perfect!!!

Details of the grain :

And the best pic i have!
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n229 ... 0013-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Actually, the leather in these photos remind me alot of the "Chicago" jacket posted in this thread on FJ, in terms of color, grain, type and texture of the leather. This leather will make a near perfect LC jacket:
http://filmjackets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The right type of skin, veg tanned really makes a difference. Also, something Peter said on page 7 of the "Hero" thread resonated with me, he mentioned that veg tanned leather tended to soak up water, which has been another clue to putting the puzzle together. Undoubtedly, these factors contributed to the overall look of the LC jacket? I think you have to look seriously at the type of leather they used back in the 80's and how it was tanned to get the right look per film?

I think this is one reason why we struggled so much in years past to find the right repro jacket was because the leather was not veg tanned, the semi-aniline leather just has a difficult issue with reproducing the look. With grainy or some grain, veg tanned, you get more of a vintage look, and more of a "natural" appearance, as opposed to the slick, shiny look that we have all grown accustomed to seeing?

Post by **Holt** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:03 pm

My thoughts exactly! I was about to say it myself but I just didn't bother.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:13 pm

It would be nice to view leather samples of the other hides and skins? As far as I know, you can get these jackets made in lamb, goat and HH. It would be interesting to see the others, and if they are veg tanned also?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:16 pm

Holt wrote:My thoughts exactly! I was about to say it myself but I just didn't bother.

No wonder it never came together as we wanted, because we were not matching veg tan to veg tan, per the original...?

It also may explain why the leather looks a certain way inside and a different shade outside.

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:26 pm

I have leather samples coming. They sent them out last week.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:54 am

Texan Scott wrote:No wonder it never came together as we wanted, because we were not matching veg tan to veg tan, per the original...?

It also may explain why the leather looks a certain way inside and a different shade outside.

This 'revelation' surprises me, TS, as it's always been known the Raiders jacket was vegetable tanned. Peter Botwright told us that much himself as he sourced the original leather from a tannery in England, and that's all they did.

That's why the first G&B Expedition's were only made from vegetable tanned leathers as they were based on a screen used Raiders stunt jacket that was vegetable tanned....and only later was the chrome tanned version was offered due to customer demand for a tougher, more water resistant material.

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:11 am

I remember the very first G&B's in deer skin, etc. But as you mentioned, at some point or a few years later, they went to semi-a, as did practically everyone else. I unfortunately, never handled a veg tanned Indy until this Kelso offering, and then it became very clear of what was at hand. But it explains why people would receive their jackets, then complain that the surface of the skin did not look like the movie jacket, that they were too shiny, etc., and went immediately to the water treatment. Yet this is just one variable. There are several things that come together to produce the look: type and texture of skin, color, method of tannery, accuracy to film, thickness/thinness of the leather, even if someone gets a jacket made per HF's specs.-the cut of the jacket makes a difference. It is like one of those truths about it that was known but fell by the wayside, as vendors preferred to make the jacket with the other type of tanning process.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:13 am

My 2002 Expedition is vegetable tanned goatskin, and yes, it's most definitely a 'different animal' in all respects when compared to chrome tanned leather.

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:19 am

...and I have to add, no one (vendor) really made veg tan a priority until recently.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:32 am

Actually, that's not quite correct. WE (the fans) were the ones who pushed the vendors to chrome tanned back in the early 2000's. Vegetable tanned used to BE the only item offered with chrome tanned optional.

Folks absolutely demanded a more water resistant leather, as well as kept using the shot in front of the Peruvian temple (the dark brown shot) as being THE definitive color the jacket HAD to be, and so the chrome tanned version was pushed to the front, and vegetable tanned leather either pushed to the rear, or eliminated.

What's so ironic now is folks are realizing they were wrong, as well well as the fact that chrome tanning has been outlawed in the U. S., and obtaining it has driven up the cost....so we've come full circle......again!

Regards! M

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:37 am

In the wake of it, chrome tanned is just lifeless compared to veg. There really is no comparison. You break the surface of chrome and get that dull gray color? Yet, we went through years of people complaining about their jackets and no one really offered anything to the contrary. The solution had been right there the whole time, ie no one really pushed for veg tan say 3-5 years ago. You just bought chrome and then tried to make it work through distressing.

IndyOriginal · Post by **IndyOriginal** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:54 am

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I agree with some others' comments regarding the suitability of the grainy lamb to replicate an LC...anyone know if Bill Kelso has any plans for an LC in the near future?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:58 am

According to what I have heard, they plan to reproduce all the Indy jackets, that came from Andy.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:23 am

Texan Scott wrote: You just bought chrome and then tried to make it work through distressing.

...yep, even though they were TOLD it wouldn't work at the time!