No more Schott made Wings Indy jackets?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:30 am

I found an email from David Hack waiting for me when I got up this morning. In the email, this statement was made:

When our Schott USA made Indy Jackets are all sold out we will not be making any more due to the cost of doing business.

That said, though, David also wondered what the membership would think of this decision, so I thought I'd post it here and allow anyone who cares to respond an opportunity to offer their opinion themselves.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:44 am

Wow, sad to hear given the two companies' long history together. I can understand Wings' position on this in terms of the Schott-made jackets pushing into the $600 range. There's lots of custom vendors at that price point.

I like the idea of Wings selling "made in America" jackets, but I'm sure Dave knows which jackets in his inventory are being turned over quickest. I have to think the jackets in the $2-300 range move much quicker than the more expensive ones. At the end of the day he has to make his business decisions on what will keep his doors open.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am

So, I take it they will all be foreign made now? If so, that's ashamed since he does support our military.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:50 am

He's just talking about the Indy line, as now corrected in the subject line, TS. Thanks.

I don't believe it will affect his military jacket sales or Schott manufacturing in that area.

It's definitely due to the bottom line and not his love of the hobby. On some hide selections they weren't even breaking even due to the constant price increase of leather in the past year.

Regards! Michaelson

Bogie1943 · Post by **Bogie1943** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:42 am

I've had experience with both the Legends having been made overseas and stateside. As I have stated before, my US made Legend is a superb jacket in every way. However, the Wings jacket I owned that was made overseas was not up to snuff. I hope that the Legend will continue to be made by quality craftsman here in the US and not mass produced overseas. Quality, construction, and attention to detail is what I look for in a jacket vendor.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:53 am

I actually passed those exact same concerns to David myself, Josh, and in almost exactly the same context.

That said, I have been VERY impressed with the quality of the items that came out of his Hong Kong connection. They're top notch jackets in every respect....but the Pakinstani work has been pretty much hit or miss....or at least the ones I've owned and/or examined. One would be a fine piece of craftsmanship, and the next completely mis-matched leather, dropped stitches and wrongly placed pockets.

I agree with you 100%, my friend.

Regards! Michaelson

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:44 pm

Bogie1943 wrote:I hope that the Legend will continue to be made by quality craftsman here in the US and not mass produced overseas. Quality, construction, and attention to detail is what I look for in a jacket vendor.

I was having a conversation with him on a different subject that had my attention when he mentioned dropping the Schott jackets. It almost gave me whiplash!

I agree completely with Bogie's statement. It's hard to believe that it's possible that the Schott Indy jackets will no longer me made. I've seen some fine work on the imports recently introduced, but the Schott jackets are still several tiers above in terms of quality. Whatever happens, I hope that they are able to continue to produce some top quality US made Indy jackets. When you shop at a store called US Wings, the expectation is that you will be able to get an American made product.

That said, I understand the problem. Indy jackets are a niche market. Aside from their A-2, they have more Indy jackets offerings than anything else in their product line, and choices will have to be made.

Weston

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:48 pm

I'd rather not do business with SEIU thugs anyway, if anything they are quite un-American.

http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/ ... mcdonalds/

Tennessee Smith wrote:So, I take it they will all be foreign made now? If so, that's ashamed since he does support our military.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Not sure I understand your point, HDRnR. Schott is located in New Jersey and has nothing to do with that particular union.

Regards! Michaelson

bish · Post by **bish** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:27 pm

Just to clarify are ALL the American made Indy jackets made by Schott?

I just bought a Signature Goatskin since they were on sale for $195 and the site said they weren't going to be made any more. It's going to be my lose weight until it fits just right jacket

It arrived today and it's really nice, I didn't realize though that it was made by Schott, that is very cool. That is too bad though that the Schott made jackets will be gone.

- bish

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Yes, all the U. S. made USW jackets are Schotts, as are/were all the signature series jacket offerings.

Regards! Michaelson

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:40 pm

If you go to Schott's webpage it clearly states that they are SEIU made. Unions can operate in more than one state. Do a search, you will find incidents they were involved in across the nation.

Michaelson wrote:Not sure I understand your point, HDRnR. Schott is located in New Jersey and has nothing to do with that particular union.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:41 pm

Ah, I understand where you're coming from now. Excellent point.

That said, and no, I'm not a union man, but my late Father-in-law was and deeply involved in the Steel Workers his whole life, unions can indeed operate in different States, but can also negotiate different contracts and use different guidelines than other lodges. What they do in California can be LEAGUES apart from the practices of the shops on the East Coast, and usually are. Different situations allow for unions to operate differently. The needs of the members in New Jersey are worlds apart from what they're dealing with in California.

Not saying that's the case here....but it's also not a good idea to paint everyone with the same broad brush because of the actions of that particular group.

Now, before this turns 'political', which is contrary to the rules and could EASILY go in that direction from here, let's return to the topic at hand.

Regard! Michaelson

p.s. Took your advice and just read their history, and it's amazing how many unions were absorbed to make up the SEIU, so it's a VERY diversified and fragmented union.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:34 pm

Regardin the Wings/Schott-made jackets...what kind of stock does Sgt. Hack have left in inventory? Is this a blairing warning to purchase now, or forever miss out? W.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:09 am

If you're asking me, I have no idea what so ever. I just passed along the email.

Drop him a line and see.

Regards! Michaelson

PsychicsAndSwords · Post by **PsychicsAndSwords** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:23 am

Hmm. Disappointing but understandable. After the high-pockets import debacle I won't try their imports again. But I picked up the Schott-made steerhide Legend in large-long while they were on sale - last yearish? - and while I'm not 100% sold on the pattern (the pockets seem really, really huge to me), it's probably the best fit I've ever found in an Indy jacket, including custom Westeds. The construction is great, and I think the liner is probably my favorite of all the different linings I've tried.

That said, the understandable part: the cost is prohibitive! Since the fit is so great, I'd love to get a Schott-made buffalo or striated lamb Legend, but they're just too expensive for me - and at that price point, I would probably go with a complete custom from someone like Magnoli that could do all the little tweaks to make a more perfect-for-my-personal-tastes jacket.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:42 am

Yeah, it seems like a delicate balancing act they're going to have to do if they plan on staying in this end of the business.

They have a legitimate connection to the history of the Indiana Jones franchise, and at least one example should be in everyone's stable if only for THAT connection.....but exactly where should they fit in the market?

Too high, and as you say, custom jackets make more sense for purchase.....too little, and as we've seen, quality suffers.

I haven't been the least bit impressed with the imports other than those made in the Hong Kong factory...those are amazing! Equal to Shott in eye to detail, but then again, without the 'over the road' history of the Schott products....but that said, if you handed me one of the HK creations with no maker tag, I'd be hard pressed to tell one from the Schott factory. As a matter of fact, I WAS fooled by a prototype in this very matter in the past.

Their other imports have been all over the place....either dead on target, or so far off the mark it's questionable the craftsman even looked at the pattern.

So, if they stay high end, they'll kill their own market due to other better choices of custom jackets in the same price range, and yet if they go on the lower end and stick with the Pakistani offerings that are either top notch or completely wrong, they'll only attract 'entry level' folks or those who just want a beater jacket for little money.

Not a good prospect on either end....so where is the magic 'niche' for the USW Indy jacket. There has to be one, as theirs is the longest history with 'us' as a hobby, and were the first vendor to recognize and back our hobby, even before Wested decided to come on the internet scene.

I'd hate to see them just disappear from the hobby due to low sales, but also understand if the market is killing them, why keep backing a losing horse?

Hummmmm.

Regards! Michaelson

p.s. What's kind of ironic is the Indy jacket in black lambskin used to be their BIGGEST seller, sometimes even rivaling their A2 sales, as they had an annual contract with TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) for this particular jacket for field use. With the government cutbacks, I'm sure the TVA had to drop that contract, so it explains why the Indy line suddenly became a small product line for USW in a matter of a few strokes of a pen on a contract.

Forrest For the Trees · Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:32 am

I think right now, Wings is just offering too many different Indy jackets. I know that sounds crazy, from our perspective, but for a potential buyer who knows nothing about Indygear, it would be really confusing. Wings should just nail down a pattern and make it really well. I know that is what they do with their Signature Series, but that pattern is too oversized and long in the body to be a proper Indy jacket. But with that series still out there, and then you have the Hero and Legend jackets, some made in the US, some made overseas, it would be hard to know which to buy.

As to where they are made, well it would be a shame to have a "U.S." Wings jacket not made in the U.S!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:34 pm

Forrest For the Trees wrote:As to where they are made, well it would be a shame to have a "U.S." Wings jacket not made in the U.S!

Yeah, it would be kind of an oxymoron, wouldn't it?

Regards! M

Kubrik · Post by **Kubrik** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:49 pm

PsychicsAndSwords wrote:Hmm. Disappointing but understandable. After the high-pockets import debacle I won't try their imports again. But I picked up the Schott-made steerhide Legend in large-long while they were on sale - last yearish? - and while I'm not 100% sold on the pattern (the pockets seem really, really huge to me), it's probably the best fit I've ever found in an Indy jacket, including custom Westeds. The construction is great, and I think the liner is probably my favorite of all the different linings I've tried.

I always liked the US wings best cause of the larger pockets, really dig them. The Legend's pocket flaps are also the closest to the Nowak Raiders I think. The only reason I never got the Schott US made Legend was I thought the stretched lambskin too thick, looked like horsehide, not very Raiders I'm afraid. The cow was too thick as well. I got the import 30th anniversary in lambskin and goat, they drape very nice, just perfect. Schott should've made the Legend in thin goat and lamb.

PsychicsAndSwords · Post by **PsychicsAndSwords** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:52 pm

Kubrik wrote:
PsychicsAndSwords wrote:Hmm. Disappointing but understandable. After the high-pockets import debacle I won't try their imports again. But I picked up the Schott-made steerhide Legend in large-long while they were on sale - last yearish? - and while I'm not 100% sold on the pattern (the pockets seem really, really huge to me), it's probably the best fit I've ever found in an Indy jacket, including custom Westeds. The construction is great, and I think the liner is probably my favorite of all the different linings I've tried.
I always liked the US wings best cause of the larger pockets, really dig them. The Legend's pocket flaps are also the closest to the Nowak Raiders I think. The only reason I never got the Schott US made Legend was I thought the stretched lambskin too thick, looked like horsehide, not very Raiders I'm afraid. The cow was too thick as well. I got the import 30th anniversary in lambskin and goat, they drape very nice, just perfect. Schott should've made the Legend in thin goat and lamb.

Yeah, the pocket size thing is purely a matter of taste for me. I'm not the screen-grab-comparison type so I don't know if they're "technically" too big or anything, but I just think smaller pockets look better on these jackets (although larger pockets are more useful, but personally that doesn't matter to me since I mostly just use the inner pocket

).

Pocket size aside, I think a Schott-made Legend using the undistressed goat from the Signature series goatskin jacket would have been close to perfect. But again, that's a matter of taste versus sales, and that's where the custom option comes in...

Arca Perdida · Post by **Arca Perdida** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:53 am

Just curious, which imports are made in Hong Kong vs. Pakistan?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:02 pm

I'm going strictly from memory here....but as I recall, many of the 'Hero' jackets were from the Hong Kong factory, but you'll have to look at the tags in the jackets to determine where the Legends came from.

I don't think any of the Legends came from Hong Kong but a couple prototypes that were never produced, as China started buying up any and all leather jackets they could lay their hands on, so USW had to turn to more production out of the other factories.

The imports from Pakistan are still made from good materials and GREAT leather, most of them great right out of the gate..... but their QC is pretty spotty.

That said, there's NONE of them that I've personally seen (and owned) that couldn't be corrected for not much money to make them excellent jackets for regular use, with the exception of the high pocket versions that somehow escaped the notice of the QC to spec employees at the factory.

Regards! Michaelson

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:10 pm

It would be a shame for US Wings to no longer offer USA made Indy jackets. I am fortunate enough to own one and it is a fantastic jacket. I also own several other Wings Indy style jackets and they all have come out of the Pakistan factory. I have had no problems with any of these jackets and all have been well received when presented on the forum here.

My son has two Indy jackets one from China and one from Pakistan. The one from Hong Kong has been put through the paces and has held up extremely well. He recently got to big for the HK jacket so we will see if Pakistan import holds up as well.

Kubrik · Post by **Kubrik** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:18 pm

Arca Perdida wrote:Just curious, which imports are made in Hong Kong vs. Pakistan?

If you flip over the size tag it will indicate were it's from.

Arca Perdida · Post by **Arca Perdida** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:31 am

Kubrik wrote:
Arca Perdida wrote:Just curious, which imports are made in Hong Kong vs. Pakistan?
If you flip over the size tag it will indicate were it's from.

I don't own one of those. My curiosity was for future reference purposes. I've been eyeing those legends and the 30th anniversary one for a while. Thanks, though. And thank you, Michaelson.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:52 am

I have a Schott made US Wings jacket - it is a beautiful jacket and I am thrilled with the quality. Personally I would never buy one of the off shore jackets based on what I have read here about the quality of those jackets. One of the things i love about "US" Wings was Sarge's commitment to US made jackets. Personally I think "Indy" would only buy American.
best
Canada

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:18 pm

Well, on that note, for anyone that's on the fence about ordering the ones on clearance, this email just rattled through my account:

Starting May 1st, the price of all the $195.00 jackets will increase to $229.00 and the longs to $249.00

So, if you're thinking about grabbing one, best order it before the 1st before this occurs.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:53 pm

Yep, and from what I understand, what they're charging when it comes to clearance items are 'replacement' costs to put the item back on the rack if they had to....simply break even.

Regards! Michaelson

Arca Perdida · Post by **Arca Perdida** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:49 pm

I'll have to wait for things to turn around. And by that, I mean for me to become employed again. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the warm weather that is coming

Thanks for the heads-up, though. Good to know.

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:35 am

Sorry to bring this back from the past.

Are the USA made jackets still Schott made and is USW still just selling off their inventory?

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:01 pm

Don't know for sure, but given that the original post was almost three years ago I find it hard to believe USW would carry that much inventory.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Glenville86 · Post by **Glenville86** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:32 pm

Only way I could see this being current is if USW had a standing contract with Schott for X number of Indy jackets and sales were not moving very fast.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:07 pm

They seemed to have reversed that decision, as a LOT of Indy related jacket have been made and are continuing to be made by Schott. The current 'roo jacket and incoming bison jackets are made by Schott.

Regards! M

Ridgerunner58 · Post by **Ridgerunner58** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:47 am

Since 2012 there has been a drastic swing in consumer thinking toward buying products made here.

Around 2011 I was at a meeting related to one of my "other" lives in which Harley-Davidson customers expressed their unhappiness that they were forced to buy jackets, shirts and other products that were made elsewhere. (which I thought was interesting since for years I had been "label checking" and avoiding the "Made in China" or similar labels.) The company response was it was a price issue, i.e. the U.S. made products were more expensive and hence would be priced higher. The "show of hands" consensus was "we don't care - we'll pay extra to support domestic industry." As a result, much more of their stuff is sourced here.

My observation is the swing is widespread. There's a significant movement away from cheap to quality, even if it costs more.

US Wings continuing to offer US made products is just part of that. I'd be curious to know the percentages, but I expect they have many customers who will pay the extra for something manufactured here.