Herbert Johnson, what's 'wrong' with it?

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

When I first bought clothing to emulate my hero IJ I was happy with what I had - a pair of chinos a brown leather jacket, shirt and fedora. SA never occurred to me really. 'I' thought I was IJ and that's all that mattered (my shirt was white and my jacket was 'bomber' style with fabric cuffs for goodness sake ;0) ) A few years ago I bought a Wested jacket and loved it, although the comments made by some back then led to this being my first post in around two years.... Now my fedora was probably 'just' a fedora, not an IJ fedora that I got from Bates in London. Again at the time it WAS IJ, now I see the crown is to short etc. further more it no longer fits me, I want another one.

I found that HJ was the original supplier so was excited untill I checked on line. It appears it's not the same block or materials as originally and so doesn't look the 'same'.

What I'd really appreciate is, with pictures if possible, someone to show me why it's not the Raiders hat / how far it is 'off'. The Raiders look is what I'm after and I'm not sure how subtle or obvious the differences are. I'd like to buy in England as import taxes are a killer. I also appreciate that almost anything I get will look 'better' than the first one I bought.

I'm not sure why being SA is important to me now. I'm sure nobody I know will point and say "that needs re-blocking" or "I thought you said it was a Raiders hat, looks more like Last Crusade to me", but there you go. Now I've seen the Pennman 'Cairo', and it looks very nice. However, the pictures on the HJ website are obviously not taken at the same angles so I'm unable to really compare.

If it helps I may wear it with a suit but am more likely to wear it as part of a 'costume' or with some of the other IJ clothing. It's not going to be an everyday hat but I'd like it to last me as long as possible. Can any of you Ladies or Gentleman help?

[Indiana Jeff]

There's no shortage of reading on this topic and albeit time consuming that's probably your best bet. This thread is the best primer on the subject and breaks down the comparisons. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10903" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In short, based on my understanding, the issue with current era HJs is the block being used is more akin to the Last Crusade fedora than the ROLA, however, most importantly the quality of the felt is the biggest issue people tend to have. The hat will not hold up long term to rigorous use. The Christie's fedora is apparently the same materials as a modern HJ, but much cheaper due to the lack of the brand name.

Beyond that there is no 'one' ROLA fedora. The hat (like the jacket) changes looks throughout the movie so the best you can do is get a hat that looks like a ROLA hat to you.

David Garrison (Local Land Surveyor) and John Penman, both members here, make incredible ROLA fedoras that will withstand everyday use without a problem. The Akubra Federation IV is a popular choice available through hatsdirect.com. Unfortunately none of these are based in the UK. I don't know of any maker/seller that is, much to the chagrin of our members there.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thanks Jeff. When I asked about comparisons I was really thinking of the modern HJ compared to the original HJ. That is to say the differences that make people say 'that doesn't look like Raiders anymore'. If I got an HJ 'off the shelf' where isit 'wrong'?

[whiskyman]

I've had lots of HJs over the years. The modern HJ has a crown that is too tall and too tapered and a brim the is too narrow at the sides. It also has a pretty ugly bow. The colour isn't bad but the felt quality means it's prone to severe shrinkage if it gets wet. It can make a fairly decent looking LC hat because the LC hat doesn't need such a deep center dent or such an extreme front pinch. As has already been mentioned, the Christies is basically exactly the same hat at a much lower price. Also, Christies now offer what they call a "Swerford" which has a better crown height.
This is a vintage HJ I used to own (on the left). If you put this bash into a modern HJ it will look very tapered. I will try and dig out some pics of my old modern HJs


Another option is the Adventurebilt "Henry" which is available for I think 299Euros in Germany - again no customs tax.
Very nice felt - much better quality than the HJ or Christy and can do a reasonable Raiders look, at least closer than the other two. Aslo a better ribbon and bow.
Here's mine

[Michaelson]

The Henry is also a rabbit/beaver blend, where the HJ is domestic rabbit.

Regards! Michaelson

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thank you. The Adventurebuilt 'Henry', is that the machine made version of their hat (or am I getting confused with the maker of the CS fedora?). I seem to recall that the Pennman 'Cairo' is about $50 more than their machine made hats, although you might need to wait untill next year to get your hands on it. Who would be the stockist to go to in Germany to get one? I'm sure when I looked at AB I could only find them from their own site in the states. I'd just have really liked to be able to go to the 'store' and be certain I've got the right size. I appreciate you can always send it back etc etc but I'd rather not have to take up their returns offer.... alas this is looking less and less likely.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thanky you. The Adventurebuilt 'Henry', is that the machine made version of their hat (or am I getting confused with the maker of the CS fedora?). I seem to recall that the Pennman 'Cairo' is about $50 more than their machine made hats, although you might need to wait untill next year to get your hands on it. Who would be the stockist to go to in Germany to get one? I'm sure when I looked at AB I could only find them from their own site in the states. I'd just have really liked to be able to go to the 'store' and be certain I've got the right size. I appreciate you can always send it back etc etc but I'd rather not have to take up their returns offer.... alas this is looking less and less likely.

[whiskyman]

http://www.adventurebiltdeluxe.com/henry.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Write to their contact address for more info.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Yes I'm waiting for a reply. I'd assumed they were in the states as the site was '.com' not '.de' and the prices are in dollars.

[jnicktem]

Thank you. The Adventurebuilt 'Henry', is that the machine made version of their hat (or am I getting confused with the maker of the CS fedora?). I seem to recall that the Pennman 'Cairo' is about $50 more than their machine made hats, although you might need to wait untill next year to get your hands on it. Who would be the stockist to go to in Germany to get one? I'm sure when I looked at AB I could only find them from their own site in the states. I'd just have really liked to be able to go to the 'store' and be certain I've got the right size. I appreciate you can always send it back etc etc but I'd rather not have to take up their returns offer.... alas this is looking less and less likely.

The AB Henry is a factory made fedora that was made available by the guys who made the CS fedora. John Penman's hats are handmade, so there is a quality difference. Also his wait time is only around 5 months last I heard.

You can send AB-Germany an email with this address: info@adventurebilt.com And that is for the Germany AB, so no worries there. They will help you find the right size for you. You will only get the wrong size if you are terrible at measuring your head (or someone else is terrible at it). They will most likely ask you to measure your head 3-5 times and give them each measurement to make sure you get the right size. They are pros.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Thanks jnicktem, I believe the Pennman hat was only $50 more than the $ quote for the factory made, although all rabbit not a rabbit / beaver mix. If I go this route it seems the $50 extra would be well worth it.

With regard to the rabbit / Beaver / rabbit, beaver mix which is considered the way to go? I know the original was rabbit and that beaver is softer and denser. I'm not going to wear it every day and I'd love it to outlast me without shrinking so it doesn't fit / get holes etc. Is the rabbits lower density of fibres going to make it 'wear out' noticeably quicker?

[jnicktem]

Beaver is considered to be the highest quality felt- although John Penman uses VERY high quality rabbit felt... so you can't go wrong with either choice.

[whiskyman]

Bear in mind you will probably have to pay customs duties if you order from the States - so reckon that in as part of your budget if you don't want a nasty surprise.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

Beaver is considered to be the highest quality felt- although John Penman uses VERY high quality rabbit felt... so you can't go wrong with either choice.

Thanks. If I went for the extra on a Pennman I'm seriously tempted by the 'Cairo'. I'll ask in another thread what peoples views are on distressed v out of the box, but the Cairo only comes in rabbit so I thought I'd ask.

[jnicktem]

To answer that question- it completely depends on what you want. Which one you prefer. There's no wrong answer as the quality is the same.

[Indiana Jeff]

Keep in mind Garrison Hatters. His current Indy hats are selling for $175-$200 and are completely custom, hand-made. David uses the same rabbit felts that Adventurebilt and Penman uses. Rabbit isn't as durable as beaver, but you don't have to worry about these particular rabbit felts - they're they highest quality available.

David also offers a Cairo styling, but if you plan to wear your fedora with suits or other street clothes from time to time, I wouldn't go with the Cairo as IMO it wouldn't look right to wear a suit with a dusty, beaten up fedora.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

I emailed Adventurebuilt, about their 'Henry', from their website. I got an email back from Penmans. I think this is where I'm getting confused. Well one of the places I'm getting confused anyway

[jnicktem]

What are you confused about exactly?

[Michaelson]

I believe I understand his confusion.

The Adventurebilt/Deluxe page is the German page belonging to Marc, and those Henry's usually come out of his shop.

He said he emailed that website, but received a reply from the Penman page, where the US sold Henry's are shipped from.

From the exchange, I'm assuming he's located in Europe. If so, he's wanting to get his Henry from Marc in Germany, not John Penman on the West Coast of the US.

Am I reading this situation correctly?

Regards! Michaelson

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

I believe I understand his confusion.

The Adventurebilt/Deluxe page is the German page belonging to Marc, and those Henry's usually come out of his shop.

He said he emailed that website, but received a reply from the Penman page, where the US sold Henry's are shipped from.

From the exchange, I'm assuming he's located in Europe. If so, he's wanting to get his Henry from Marc in Germany, not John Penman on the West Coast of the US.

Am I reading this situation correctly?

Regards! Michaelson

You sir are correct. I've not yet heard back from Germany, I'm in England. I'd originally contacted what must be the USA site and was responded to by Penmans. I've then been a bit confused about the links as I'd asked about a machine made hat and the gentleman that replied is clearly a maker of quality hand made fedoras. Asa result I'm seriously looking at a hand made Penmans fedora. I'm still looking forward to a response from Germany as I just need to confirm prices in euros and work out the likely total costs.

[jnicktem]

John Penman is simply the USA distributor of the AB Henry. There are only two places to get it, from the Penman Hat Co. or from AB Deluxe with Marc and Stefan in Germany.

Marc/Stefan can take a couple of days to respond, as they keep pretty busy.

[Raider Of The Lost Ark]

John Penman is simply the USA distributor of the AB Henry. There are only two places to get it, from the Penman Hat Co. or from AB Deluxe with Marc and Stefan in Germany.

Marc/Stefan can take a couple of days to respond, as they keep pretty busy.

Good to know, thanks.

[Michaelson]

I believe I understand his confusion.

The Adventurebilt/Deluxe page is the German page belonging to Marc, and those Henry's usually come out of his shop.

He said he emailed that website, but received a reply from the Penman page, where the US sold Henry's are shipped from.

From the exchange, I'm assuming he's located in Europe. If so, he's wanting to get his Henry from Marc in Germany, not John Penman on the West Coast of the US.

Am I reading this situation correctly?

Regards! Michaelson

You sir are correct. I've not yet heard back from Germany, I'm in England. I'd originally contacted what must be the USA site and was responded to by Penmans. I've then been a bit confused about the links as I'd asked about a machine made hat and the gentleman that replied is clearly a maker of quality hand made fedoras. Asa result I'm seriously looking at a hand made Penmans fedora. I'm still looking forward to a response from Germany as I just need to confirm prices in euros and work out the likely total costs.