Are certain bashes more prone to tapering?

Bushman · Post by **Bushman** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:04 pm

Rick's recent post about the quick tapering of his Optimo has caused me to wonder: Are certain bashes more prone to tapering?

I've never had an Akubra taper. My oldest Akubra is a well-worn featherweight Bushman. This lid had been exposed to cyclones, snow, and blistering heat. The colour has faded a bit, but less than ten percent (The original colour was Deep Fawn. Now, it just looks good!

). The original ribbon is long gone, replaced by a braided roo "Gulf" band. The hat still hasn't tapered.

Now, the bash isn't the famed center crease. (Yes, I know, it's Indy hat heresy, but I just don't like the center crease.

) I put in a pinched telescope bash when I got the hat. First, it's the traditional bash for the Bushman. Second, I find it gives me the "square" crown look I prefer in a hat. (My grey Fed is also bashed with a pinched telescope.)

Anyone with similar experiences with different bashes?

Bushman

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:36 pm

It has everything to do with the material, the block and how it's treated by the owner. Like I said in another thread... modern hats are made with fewer steps so many of them taper too fast.

I'll get lambasted for saying this... but I think there's something wrong when Rick and I abuse our lids in the same amount of time and in the same type of weather (we're both in the Life Free Or Die state) while my cheaper hat looks almost brand new. I'm not saying this to disparage Rick. I'm saying that for what he paid and the kind of friend he is here on COW, he deserves better.

Harry Steele · Post by **Harry Steele** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:54 pm

Hey, Bushman!

I also bash my Federation (mid-brown for me) with a pinched telescope -- just like it that way. I've had the hat a few years in rain, sun, and snow. No taper. I guess these Akubras are just tough! You and Renderking already knew that.

Cheers,

Harry

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:02 pm

Renderking Fisk wrote:It has everything to do with the material, the block and how it's treated by the owner. Like I said in another thread... modern hats are made with fewer steps so many of them taper too fast.

I'll get lambasted for saying this... but I think there's something wrong when Rick and I abuse our lids in the same amount of time and in the same type of weather (we're both in the Life Free Or Die state) while my cheaper hat looks almost brand new. I'm not saying this to disparage Rick. I'm saying that for what he paid and the kind of friend he is here on COW, he deserves better.

Granted, he did pay quite a bit, but at least he got it for about half what a new one costs, so at least he's not out $400. Nevertheless, that is still quite a chunk of change, and he expected it not to taper.
One more thing to consider is the fact that this is not currently what is offered by the company. I have heard stories of a PB from the first year of production that turned green after just a few months.
Will a new Optimo with the nutria content taper? I am sure it will, if it is given enough damage. All hats will taper, if given enough rough treatment. My Fed is about the same age as my Optimo, and it has tapered badly, while my Optimo has not (and it has been sat on).

Is this a result of bad felt, a bad hatter, bad blocking, or a bad felting process? I do not know. The only thing I do know is that any hat is capable of taper.

Just for the record Eric, I'm not lambasting you. I consider you one of my very good friends, and both Rick and Marc should record their experiences, and even dissatisfaction with their hats. They have every right to do so, just as folks have the right to claim otherwise.

Cheers,
Nathan

Harry Steele · Post by **Harry Steele** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:27 am

David Morgan's site provides a fairly good explanation and pictures:

http://www.davidmorgan.com/bashinghat.html

Cheers,

Harry

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:34 am

RK,
I have patiently refrained my slamming other hats as well. Everyone's mileage varies. My first federation turned green and tapered, as well as others I have seen in person (Rundquist's first Federation). That was a while ago, but it happened. Maybe that was a different batch, just like it is a different batch with Optimo. Rick5150 has an option to have his reblocked. However my green Fed had more than just reblock work ahead of it. In fact I have seen PBI's (yes a PBI) turn green as well, in person (Indy French). Could be different batches, where that is not an issue anymore, but it happened. There I said it... I can go on and on with hats changing colors and losing their blocking...

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:50 am

I'll get lambasted for saying this... but I think there's something wrong when Rick and I abuse our lids in the same amount of time and in the same type of weather (we're both in the Life Free Or Die state) while my cheaper hat looks almost brand new. I'm not saying this to disparage Rick. I'm saying that for what he paid and the kind of friend he is here on COW, he deserves better.

Ren,

I think the hat taper bothers you more than it bothers me.

I appreciate your kind sentiments, but I took a chance on this hat and had some taper. It is being addressed as we speak. No big deal. I am not angry at the hat, or anyone who doesn't like the hat. I have learned it's limitations and what I can subject it to.

You are fortunate that you have found what you have been looking for. Is there a better one for you? Maybe, maybe not. You'll never know because you are happy with what you have, and you should be. Hatsdirect.com is awesome and your hat looks good on you. You will buy other hats from this vendor because they satisfy all of your expectations. I can certainly admire and respect that.

My problem is, I am only temporarily satified. Even when the Optimo was the pinnacle of my collection, I found myself on eBay looking for different hats.

To all:
Part of the reason I chose the Optimo is the high quality associated with it. The other part is that it was an offer I couldn't refuse, as Zohar keeps pointing out

. That hat is very light and comfortable. I wouldn't have changed anything I did in it for any other hat. It has absolutely nothing to do with the money attached and which hat is "better." I am not chosing between vendors (I may be crazy, but I am not stupid

) since they all have something unique to offer.

My feeling is that there is no one hat that is suited for me, so I have acquired several hat types by several makers. A different hat for a different mood. I am doing the same with jackets. Like Michaelson said, it is not the gear, but the spirit of the adventure or something like that. Life is too short to worry about little things. We are all wearing a lot of hats in our lives in one way or another.

To Bushman:
To bring this back on topic, I think that the bash can affect the taper, but if it is truly the bash, it will be immediately apparent. Otherwise, the felt has been physically changed by stretching or shrinking. I believe you need the right shape block to obtain the Raider's tight pinch, otherwise you will have taper and the dreaded pinch-slant. All the other factors mentioned such as felt quality, thickness, production care and of course the conditions the hat will encounter as you put it through its paces will determine taper as well.

I will get off my soapbox after this disclaimer: Although I own hats, I know very little about the hats and what goes into making them. I can only comment on my personal experiences and beliefs while owning them. Just because I wear a hat doesn't make me an expert. The experts are here too and will surely answer your question eventually

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:16 am

Hear, hear Rick.

I completely agree with your sentiments in that post. My hat is off to you, buddy.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:42 am

Rick is right on. I agree with everything that he said. On the tapering issue, we all know what a hat starts at as. A cone. Over time and wear all hats will taper. That is why hatters still offer reblocks. What is important to folks like Rick and Marc, and there are many others, is how quick will they taper when worn in the rain, etc. And, different batches of felt will have different lives, as well as the type of felt. That is the nature of the beast. We have so many great offerings nowadays, and the good thing about it is, you can find one that looks very Indyish, while being in your budget. The great thing about this is that this group here are responsible for most of what we have today. I have been hanging around long enough to remember when our choices were horrible. We must support our current sources, and lend our support to all of the vendors. I am tired of the trashing. We are very lucky. We also tend to forget that. Fedora

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:59 am

The experts are here too and will surely answer your question eventually

See?

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:14 pm

Fedora wrote:Rick is right on. I agree with everything that he said. On the tapering issue, we all know what a hat starts at as. A cone. Over time and wear all hats will taper. That is why hatters still offer reblocks. What is important to folks like Rick and Marc, and there are many others, is how quick will they taper when worn in the rain, etc. And, different batches of felt will have different lives, as well as the type of felt. That is the nature of the beast. We have so many great offerings nowadays, and the good thing about it is, you can find one that looks very Indyish, while being in your budget. The great thing about this is that this group here are responsible for most of what we have today. I have been hanging around long enough to remember when our choices were horrible. We must support our current sources, and lend our support to all of the vendors. I am tired of the trashing. We are very lucky. We also tend to forget that. Fedora

Well said, very well said indeed. I too, can remember when our choices for Fedoras ranged from what you came across in a Disney Park or Lucasfilm catalog, to the Stetson selection, to the hit or miss HJ and finally to the Gary White custom hat...we have come a long, long way...

As for the whole different bashes and how they taper...I'd have to guess that if you took several of the same style hats (open-crown), made by the same vendor from the same materials, but bashed each one with a different bash-style, and then subjected them all to the same amount of wear and tear, exposure to moisture, etc. that the hats bashed in a fashion similar to the center-dent Indy style would taper sooner than the pinched telescope, teardrop, diamond or C-dent style hats, just based on the way the felt is blocked into shape...as I said, just a guess.

-GCR