Cracking whips on dormant grass

[drewtheman]

I was wondering if you guys practice whipcracking, in the winter, on dead grass, and will this hurt the whip. Thanks

[trdaggers]

In the winter I'm either going to pratice on dead grass or I'm not going to practice. I can't personally see how it could hurt the whip. I always wipe my whip after using to remove any dirt it may have picked up. Lets see what the whip pro's say.

Gailen

[riku1914]

If there is dirt under what you are cracking, I would highly suggest against it. The dirt will get under the plaiting, and with time

will cause damage to the whip, along with eventually wearing off the grain side of the leather. This is sort of an extreme

example, but look at this picture which is taken off of midwest whip's old blog :



That whip had been cracked on dirt, sand, gravel, concrete, and more.

You can do what you want with your whip, but I would suggest against doing it...

[trdaggers]

I've cracked whips, poorly may I add, for 30 years on dead grass in the winter and can see no real damage to any of them. I can understand if there is exposed dirt in which case you are correct in that it will ruin a whip. The key may be in keeping the whip clean.

Gailen

[riku1914]

I've cracked whips, poorly may I add, for 30 years on dead grass in the winter and can see no real damage to any of them. I can understand if there is exposed dirt in which case you are correct in that it will ruin a whip. The key may be in keeping the whip clean.

Gailen

The initial damage ( long before the outside get's like the whip pictured above ) will actually come from dirt getting inside the

plaiting, and causing the damage to the leather inside, and the bottom of the outside strands. You can't clean the dirt out of

the inside without taking it apart, and you can't tell that it's caused damage until the whip starts to break down ( which you

won't see for a while either ). A couple whips I made out of vinyl before I started making leather whips broke down near the point

VERY quickly, because I cracked over dirt. The outside actually look fine, but after I took it apart, the insides had been destroyed,

and you would be surprised ( I can tell you I was! ) just how much dirt was inside of the thing. Leather is much tougher than

vinyl, but you get the idea.

Since you said the whip you had cracked on dirt was poorly made, it's more than likely that the whip had already broken down.

Many cheap whips you see on ebay will break down and get very loose even when treated perfectly.

Again you can do what you want with your whips, but if you want them to last, and look nice while they're lasting, I would

highly suggest against cracking a whip on any abrasive surfaces.

[drewtheman]

Thanks guys for the info! I think it's fine. there is no dirt, maybe 3 inches under the thick grass. I just wiped it down and put some pecards, on the fall. I recorded my whipcracking and was wondering how would I post it on here? Thanks

[riku1914]

Upload it to youtube and give us the link. If you don't want it to be "public" there is an option for only people that have the link

can see it. I think it's called unlisted.

If there is quite a lot of dead grass over it I think it'd be ok. Just be sure you move your practice area around as the grass

wears away. This summer here in Texas we had almost 0 rain. I wasn't going to stop cracking, so I just changed my cracking

area over and over again. We live on 4 acres and most of it was bare dirt by the end of the summer!

[trdaggers]

Just for clarifacation, I meant that I cracked whips poorly not that I had poorly made whips.

Gailen

[riku1914]

Oh ok gotcha

[drewtheman]

Thanks riku very helpful!!

[drewtheman]

Well I was out at my brothers house, and we were talking about whips, and he asked me why dont I bring them to his house to crack them, and I said that there's is hardly any grass, and dirt here. and told him it would be bad for my whips! And he looked at me and said bro, just put down a big tarp and wa la lol!! And I was thinking, mabe that would work. Have any of you guys crack on tarps, thanks.

[riku1914]

Well I was out at my brothers house, and we were talking about whips, and he asked me why dont I bring them to his house to crack them, and I said that there's is hardly any grass, and dirt here. and told him it would be bad for my whips! And he looked at me and said bro, just put down a big tarp and wa la lol!! And I was thinking, mabe that would work. Have any of you guys crack on tarps, thanks.

As long as it's in good shape ( not discentegrating like many tarps eventually do ) I would say go for it! I've cracked over other

surfaces too when the ground was unavailable. For instance I was about to ship out a 10 ft. whip, the first 10 footer I had ever

made, and I wanted to test crack it, just to see what that extra 2 ft. felt like. Well it as very wet outside, it had just stopped

raining after 2 days. What I did was got every single towel I had in the house and laid it out on the ground.

The tarp thing is a great idea. Unless we have a pretty wet summer, I expect to see a lot of dead grass here this summer, so I

wouldn't be able to crack much. If that happens, I'll definitely be buying a tarp just for my whip cracking that I'll only have out

when I'm cracking over it so that it will last.

Nail it down with something like tent spikes so it won't move around with you when you're cracking. Those towels I mentioned

that I placed so perfectly were everywhere after 10 cracks. You'd be surprised how the whip grabs things and throws them,

even a wet towel!

[drewtheman]

Thanks riku! I thought it was a good idea also. Were my brother lives, gives me more room to crack. And I think using a tarp won't hurt the whip, like you said, as long as the tarp is in good shape.

[riku1914]

I don't think there's any chance of the tarp hurting your whip. Really the only thing I'd be worried about is the whip hitting the spike

I use to nail the tarp down, but even then it'd likely be a smooth surface and wouldn't cut it or anything like that.

Tell your brother thanks for the idea!

[Canasta]

Want something bigger and maybe cheaper than a tarp?
Call around to your local outdoor advertising agency (ie billboard company) and ask them if you can buy a retired billboard covering. Most are made of a heavy vinyl. A lot companies save these and sell them to trucking agencies and roofers to cover both truck loads and roofs during roofing season.
They are typically black on the reverse side.
I actually use two of them in my outdoor shows. The large ones are around 10x30 ft.
I back them up and make a 20x30 area that acts as a ground level stage. Keeps the whips from getting beaten on nasty surfaces like dirt and asphalt.

Just an idea. Otherwise a good canvas tarp can be obtained at a hardware or farm and home store.
I say canvas because its heavier than poly which can blow in the wind quite easily.

Chris.

[Whipartist]

In my experience, cracking whips in the winter is no problem if they're treated right. The best thing I've found to keep a whip from wearing out under hard conditions is to regularly re-apply shellac to the thong. If the whip's been through some bad stuff, wash the thong well with soapy water and let it dry slowly. Then apply a little leather dressing and once that soaks in, put on some fresh shellac. Cecil Henderson used to suggest re-application of shellac to his customers.

Blonde dewaxed shellac flakes are best I think. They dissolve in alcohol. But the alcohol cannot contain any water. If you can get 200 proof Everclear where you live, then that's the ticket. Completely nontoxic to breathe. Otherwise I'd use 100% isopropyl in a dry ventilated area. Nothing weaker than that will work right, so don't go looking at the drug store for the 70% or 90% stuff. Make the mixture into a weak looking tea (not too much shellac is needed to do the trick, and if you get it too thick it won't produce the same result). Once it dissolves you can just use a rag to apply the shellac to the whip. It dries quickly and strips off with pure alcohol, so it's really fool proof. Put on a few coats until you develop a shine. This will temporarily almost waterproof the leather until the shellac wears off again, and it produces a slicker and much more abrasion resistant surface. You'll get much less cracker tangles on the thong too, even if you use nylon. Dirt can't get past the shellac armour very easily either so I wouldn't worry about dead grass.

As a substitute, leather dressing can be applied more generously in wet conditions but only if the whip will be kept out of the dirt. The dressing can often attract dirt because it's sticky.

Shellac is a lot like kangaroo leather in that it's a pleasure to work with once you learn it's ways. No other finish has the qualities it has, making it perfect for whips.

Benjamin Scott

[riku1914]

With shellac, use denature alcohol that's at least 190 proof ( I use some that's 200 proof which is the best for shellac ). I buy my

shellac here :

http://www.shellac.net/SuperBlondePic.html

And for mixing it up, I crush shellac flakes into dust, and put them in my glass container, then I fill up the container until it's about

twice as full as it was with the flakes in it, and let it dissolve. Then I filter it through some clean cloth, 2 times, and then I pour

in more denatured alcohol, so that there is twice as much of the solution in there as there was before, so basically it ends up about

25% shellac 75% alcohol.

The thing though, shellac does not waterproof whips, and it doesn't really offer very much protection, so it's not a big thing to

worry about.

As for cleaning a whip, I would clean it with soapy water, however, I would dry it off IMMEDIATELY, and then apply pecards

leather dressing. Letting it slow dry is not a good idea, in my experience, as the leather will shrink and harden, and if it's too wet,

the leather would rather break in two than bend.

If I'm cracking in somewhat wet conditions or snow I apply pecards before I crack, then when I come in I immediately dry the

whip and apply pecards again. You could even use this for protection specifically made for wet/snowy conditions :

http://www.amazon.com/Fiebing-Company-I ... =8-1-spell


Remember though, shellac DOES NOT waterproof what it covers, shellac just produces a nice sheen.

[Whipartist]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with the idea that shellac doesn't waterproof. It's known as a tremendous sealer, that can even seal in odors on old furniture. I think what you are referencing is that since whips have plaits, the water can still get between them, even if not through the shellac. That is true, and the reason that shellac can only make a whip water resistant, not water proof. If the leather is as dry as a sponge, it will find a way to soak up water.

As far as basic abrasion resistance, shellac is one of the most helpful things I've found to make a big difference. I've been making and cracking whips for about 18 years now, and have learned that lesson. Besides hardening the leather's surface, it reduces friction and will really speed up the action of a whip over the ground as well. Leather can become quite soft, "sticky", and exposed, once the shellac wears off, and doesn't hold up as long as it could if the finish were maintained.

Denatured alcohol is popular as a solvent. It's made from ethyl alcohol, as in what people drink, and other than 200 proof everclear, you can't buy it pure. But the denatured also contains other additives to make it legal to sell (ironically), and discourage people from drinking it. Unfortunately one of those additives is typically methyl alcohol, which is bad stuff. It can damage the optic nerves and do some real damage to the nervous system. There are other poisons found in denatured alcohol as well, which makes it not my first choice to use, although it is the easiest to find.

As for slow drying, thanks for the correction. I wasn't clear. I meant that after drying it off thoroughly with a towel, I'd let it continue to slow dry for a while before applying any dressing. That is as opposed to drying it with some heat, not as opposed to leaving it wet to dry slowly. Even so, one of the reason wrist straps are put on bullwhips is so that they can be hung up to dry straight after having been used in wet conditions. Otherwise they can develop kinks. But well dressed leather will never crack or break unless you dry it with heat.

[riku1914]

Reason I was saying shellac doesn't waterproof was 2 reasons, first was what you mentioned that the whip is flexible and the

plaits separate, and second, I can't find it, but the place where I buy shellac from said somewhere that shellac doesn't waterproof

what it's covering. I looked briefly on their site but I can't find it, if I had I'd show you, but I didn't!



I figured that is what you had meant about slow drying but I figured I'd say so JUST in case.

The Denatured Alcohol I buy is called Startex, and it works well for shellac solvent. It is 190 proof, and has worked great so far!

[Whipartist]

Riku,

I think if shellac is exposed to water for a period of time, it can eventually break down. As in it's not for waterproofing outdoor furniture or something. But for short term it's great. I also find it helpful on falls to tuffen them up and keep them from getting soaked, as they are the thing that takes the most abuse in wet weather when they get spongy and the cracker catches on them.

I totally hear where you're coming from. You know what they say about whipmakers. Put 3 of them in a room and you end up with 3 different opinions. We all share the same passion though and it's a great piece of heritage and craft to carry on. Your work looks really nice.

Ben